Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2024

[Tiger91]

All adults are carriers of some strain of the virus, they can also catch it too, however only in very rare circumstances do they end up succumbing to the virus (as they have mostly developed the antibodies).

Yes, it would have probably have been around 2003. They only had the 3 African elephants at the time. Im not sure what the reason was for the change of mind set, as I remember there being a cross over a few years later!.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's interesting you've too brought this up as it's also something I considered recently.

At the time, prior to the Thai imports in 2006, the Australasian region only had eight Asian elephants (disclosing the post reproductive circus cows).

Out of those eight, three were bulls; one at Perth (Putra Mas, a then teenage bull), one at Melbourne (Bong Su, an unproven middle aged bull) and one at Taronga (Heman, an older bull also unproven).

There were also four facilities, the three aforementioned plus Auckland of whom had two cows; Kashin who was post reproductive and Burma who was in her early 20's. Auckland obviously needed a bull for their breeding program, plus a cow considering it was believed Burma was non reproductive. So the plan was to import a younger trio; Gung, Tukta and one other female who later went to Taronga (perhaps Tang Mo*), all of whom were only around six ish years of age. At the time, Auckland could've afforded to import a younger bull as they would've only had the two younger cows for breeding and they would mature around the same time as Gung.

Perth already had its four elephants; Tricia was post reproductive, however they had potentially the most likely breeding bull at the time (Putra Mas) and two young cows he was imported with just over a decade earlier (Permai and Teduh). So Perth was effectively operating beside this whole Thai import, they didn't need additional elephants for their breeding program the hope was Putra Mas would get the job done with the two cows who had just hit maturity at the time.

Taronga and Melbourne conversely were both in the same boat. Their two cows were both post reproductive, and neither bull was proven. It was believed Bong Su was infertile, and I seem to recall reading the same about Heman. Despite this, fertility tests were undertaken for both bulls and it seemed like results were positive. So consequently, with two potential bulls, they only needed cows. Three breeding cows for each facility to join the already existing pairs. Out of the six cows, three were reaching maturity (in their early teens), and the remaining three were all younger adolescents.

However, there was also the need to acknowledge that Burma may not be able to integrate with the younger cows due to her past. So Taronga had more reason to acquire two of the older cows (Porntip and Pak Boon, both closely bonded), with Melbourne receiving the other (Dokkoon) as they already had Mek Kapah. Vice versa, Melbourne would've then made the decision to select the other, younger closely bonded pair, Kulab and Num Oi with the other remaining cow (Thong Dee or Tang Mo*) left for Taronga.

This would've allowed Heman and Bong Su to have the opportunity to breed following the cows arrival; Heman with two of the cows, and Bong Su with one. Considering Heman's advanced age at the time, Taronga would've had even more reason to have priority of two of the older cows compared to Melbourne. Breeding from Heman would've needed to have been completed asap!

Of course, as we know, plans change swiftly. Tukta had aggressive tendencies and so was unfavorable for Auckland who wanted to operate under protected contact. She was offered to Taronga, of whom declined as they also would've had too many elephants to accommodate. Around the same time, Taronga made the decision to transfer Burma across to Dubbo, as it was highly unrealistic to believe she'd integrate with the younger cows. Therefore they had the space for a fourth cow, and ultimately it was one of Auckland's other cows. So without their two cows, Auckland had no reason to import Gung, and he was offered back to Taronga who decided to accept him. He was a valuable asset to the region that couldn't be lost; the two bulls at Melbourne and Taronga were both much older and unproven so Gung was always viewed as contingency for the long term. In saying that, there was no space for two bulls, so Heman had to be sent over to Dubbo too.

In my opinion, Taronga would've almost certainly used the same approach as Melbourne did with Bong Su; utilising him for AI, potentially with Taronga's older pair of cows, Porntip and Pak Boon whilst Gung matured. Tragically, he died just a month after the Thai cows arrived and he never ended up having offspring. It's wishful thinking to imagine what would've occurred if Tukta was never an aggressive cow, or at the very least if Heman passed later than he did.

All good points!

Auckland Zoo have undergone countless revisions to their elephant plans over the decades. In 1984, they planned to begin a breeding herd with a trio of 1.2 elephants - they already had Kashin, then in her prime; and planned to import 1.1 calves. Two individuals were identified and were still planned to be imported from India as of 1989, but these plans fell through; and the zoo instead imported a single female (Burma) in 1990.

Auckland Zoo’s elephant exhibit opened in 1992 and around that time there was discussions around undertaking AI with Kashin. These plans were abandoned due to her arthritis; but I recall plans to reignite this around the early 2000’s with Burma, which in turn was discontinued due to her being uncomfortable with the procedure. I assume the donor bull would have been Bong Su, who featured in docos by Australia Zoo regarding his training for AI in 2003 (Australia Zoo keepers went to Melbourne Zoo to learn elephant husbandry ahead of the arrival of their cows).

The mating of Putra Mas and Permai in 2005 was hugely exciting and reported by the zoo to be the first documented mating of this species in Australia. There was genuine hope Perth Zoo could have welcomed Australia’s first elephant calf; but sadly nothing progressed from this (nor subsequent AI attempts). In 2005, Perth announced Teduh would not be breeding due to her muscular skeletal issues, so all hopes were always on Permai to conceive.

 

[Zoofan15]

Taronga Zoo Update

Update from my visit in November:

Taronga Zoo have two crates they’ve been using to train their elephants. One crate was sent to Perth Zoo, but since their custom made crates have arrived, that will be returning to Taronga shortly. Crate training has been progressing well. No confirmation around a time frame for transferring the elephants to Monarto; but earlier reports of mid-2025 (after the arrival of Permai) seem probable.

The big news is that Pak Boon won’t necessarily be breeding at Monarto as we’ve all assumed. The keeper I spoke to wasn’t aware of any plans to breed from Pak Boon and said that she’s not being transferred for breeding reasons. The keeper said Monarto’s complex would need to be modified for calves, which would be additional expense and that Putra Mas is not a proven natural breeder, so there’s no certainty around whether they would be a viable natural breeding match.

 

[Zoofan15]

Taronga Zoo Update

Update from my visit in November:

Taronga Zoo have two crates they’ve been using to train their elephants. One crate was sent to Perth Zoo, but since their custom made crates have arrived, that will be returning to Taronga shortly. Crate training has been progressing well. No confirmation around a time frame for transferring the elephants to Monarto; but earlier reports of mid-2025 (after the arrival of Permai) seem probable.

The big news is that Pak Boon won’t necessarily be breeding at Monarto as we’ve all assumed. The keeper I spoke to wasn’t aware of any plans to breed from Pak Boon and said that she’s not being transferred for breeding reasons. The keeper said Monarto’s complex would need to be modified for calves, which would be additional expense and that Putra Mas is not a proven natural breeder, so there’s no certainty around whether they would be a viable natural breeding match.



Burma and Permai to Dubbo. Dubbo would be left with Porntip, Anjalee (pregnant) and Kanlaya - which appears to be the extent of their breeding capacity (Thong Dee isn’t expected to breed). In the ideal world, Burma and Permai could assimilate into this herd, but if not, could be managed as a pair alongside the main herd (as Taronga’s Burma previously was).

I wanted to seperate facts/information from my interpretation/speculation, so will share my thoughts here:

First of all, I’m really surprised. An additional question I had for Taronga’s staff (which completely went out the window) was whether any consideration had been given to undertaking AI with Pak Boon at Taronga prior to transferring her to Monarto. Though pregnancy hormones could complicate introductions; in the ideal scenario, it could provide Monarto with an additional female (if a female calf eventuated) that’s unrelated to Putra Mas. Had Pathi Harn been female, that would have been the case for Taronga re. Gung. In addition, it would ensure the lengthy gap since Pak Boon’s last birth (2017) isn’t delayed any longer.

To be fair to Monarto Safari Park, they’ve never stated their intention to breed - only to source additional cows to build up a herd. Our assumption they would be breeding was by no means unreasonable (in the interests of creating a sustainable herd long term via succession); but an assumption nonetheless. It’s also not to say Monarto won’t breed. Their progress with building this complex has been astonishing and it’s reasonable they’d look to establish a herd first and then look at breeding down the line (as funding allows for calf proofing etc). However, as stated above, time is not on Pak Boon’s side and they don’t as such have this luxury.

While ultimately irrelevant, my opinion is the following would have worked well:

Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Tang Mo to Monarto; with Pak Boon and Thong Dee breeding. This would give Monarto two viable (founder) cows; and a third non-breeding cow who gets on well with them. A multigenerational herd could have been built up, while retaining two founder cows within the breeding population. Ideally Putra Mas would be the breeding bull; but consideration could be given to Pathi Harn, who is related to 2/3 Dubbo’s anticipated breeding cows under this plan.

Burma and Permai to Dubbo. Dubbo would be left with Porntip, Anjalee (pregnant) and Kanlaya - which appears to be the extent of their intended breeding capacity (and even then, it’s unknown if Porntip will breed again). In the ideal world, Burma and Permai could assimilate into this herd, but if not, could be managed as a pair alongside the main herd (as Taronga’s Burma previously was).

 

[Jambo]

The big news is that Pak Boon won’t necessarily be breeding at Monarto as we’ve all assumed. The keeper I spoke to wasn’t aware of any plans to breed from Pak Boon and said that she’s not being transferred for breeding reasons. The keeper said Monarto’s complex would need to be modified for calves, which would be additional expense and that Putra Mas is not a proven natural breeder, so there’s no certainty around whether they would be a viable natural breeding match.

Extremely disappointing news if so. Pak Boon is an unrepresented founder, so breeding from her should be a priority. I do recall however you theorising she may have been retired from the breeding program due to health issues, and I do wonder whether this has come into play. I really don't see any reason why Taronga would elect to transfer her across to Monarto otherwise when they know how valuable she is if Monarto does not have the breeding facilities available. It would be so unfortunate to lose another breeding cow regionally.

If Dubbo doesn't have the space to accommodate two additional cows (Pak Boon and Tang Mo), then worse case, why not Werribee. I get they may not want additional cows as their herd is very well structured as it is, however Pak Boon and Tang Mo would likely remember the other three Thai cows and worst case, they can't be integrated, Werribee have the facilities to accommodate them anyway (alongside the opportunity for natural breeding).

 

[Zoofan15]

Extremely disappointing news if so. Pak Boon is an unrepresented founder, so breeding from her should be a priority. I do recall however you theorising she may have been retired from the breeding program due to health issues, and I do wonder whether this has come into play. I really don't see any reason why Taronga would elect to transfer her across to Monarto otherwise when they know how valuable she is if Monarto does not have the breeding facilities available. It would be so unfortunate to lose another breeding cow regionally.

If Dubbo doesn't have the space to accommodate two additional cows (Pak Boon and Tang Mo), then worse case, why not Werribee. I get they may not want additional cows as their herd is very well structured as it is, however Pak Boon and Tang Mo would likely remember the other three Thai cows and worst case, they can't be integrated, Werribee have the facilities to accommodate them anyway (alongside the opportunity for natural breeding).

It would be a great shame if Pak Boon doesn’t breed, especially considering Thong Dee (and possibly Porntip) likely won’t be breeding at Dubbo. That would represent a reduction of founder cows by 50% - given the region would be left with Dokkoon, Num-Oi and Anjalee.

If Putra Mas is indeed unable to breed naturally, it will also be interesting to see if the natural breeding vs AI stance with in the region changes to utilise his valuable genes, which otherwise depend on the successful future breeding of his six year old daughter. It’s easy to see Werribee receiving one of the Sydney bulls as their next breeding bull.

Another thought I had is if Pak Boon doesn’t breed at Monarto, their herd will inevitably die out within the next 30 years. I wonder if long term, the plan to replace them would be to receive a splinter off herd from Werribee. The herd is cohesive for now, but the division between Dokkoon/Mali and Kulab/Num-Oi could widen as Aiyara and Kati mature (and Num-Oi’s matriline strengthens). Werribee has multiple paddocks to manage this split; but successful future breeding could see opportunities to split the herd three ways from the lineages of Mali, Aiyara and Kati (depending on their reproductive success over the next 20-30 years). A split of the unrelated lines makes the most sense (from a social perspective); but even splits of sisters (and their offspring) have been observed in the wild as the herd size grows.

 

[Tiger91]

Taronga Zoo Update

Update from my visit in November:

Taronga Zoo have two crates they’ve been using to train their elephants. One crate was sent to Perth Zoo, but since their custom made crates have arrived, that will be returning to Taronga shortly. Crate training has been progressing well. No confirmation around a time frame for transferring the elephants to Monarto; but earlier reports of mid-2025 (after the arrival of Permai) seem probable.

The big news is that Pak Boon won’t necessarily be breeding at Monarto as we’ve all assumed. The keeper I spoke to wasn’t aware of any plans to breed from Pak Boon and said that she’s not being transferred for breeding reasons. The keeper said Monarto’s complex would need to be modified for calves, which would be additional expense and that Putra Mas is not a proven natural breeder, so there’s no certainty around whether they would be a viable natural breeding match.

And this is why the regional manager needs to be replaced. Honestly who cares about natural AI her. A male offspring would have application at Werribee and would mature at a time when they would need another bull.

I would be very surprised if Monarto do not breed her. Even without a recommendation for breeding. They have the space to breed 3 or 4 calves via AI and provide for them. What was the point of a huge expensive complex for a non breeding herd that wont fill it. Fitting it out for calves is easyish to do when the pocket the income from the elephants being onsite.

 

[Tiger91]

It would be a great shame if Pak Boon doesn’t breed, especially considering Thong Dee (and possibly Porntip) likely won’t be breeding at Dubbo. That would represent a reduction of founder cows by 50% - given the region would be left with Dokkoon, Num-Oi and Anjalee.

If Putra Mas is indeed unable to breed naturally, it will also be interesting to see if the natural breeding vs AI stance with in the region changes to utilise his valuable genes, which otherwise depend on the successful future breeding of his six year old daughter. It’s easy to see Werribee receiving one of the Sydney bulls as their next breeding bull.

Another thought I had is if Pak Boon doesn’t breed at Monarto, their herd will inevitably die out within the next 30 years. I wonder if long term, the plan to replace them would be to receive a splinter off herd from Werribee. The herd is cohesive for now, but the division between Dokkoon/Mali and Kulab/Num-Oi could widen as Aiyara and Kati mature (and Num-Oi’s matriline strengthens). Werribee has multiple paddocks to manage this split; but successful future breeding could see opportunities to split the herd three ways from the lineages of Mali, Aiyara and Kati (depending on their reproductive success over the next 20-30 years). A split of the unrelated lines makes the most sense (from a social perspective); but even splits of sisters (and their offspring) have been observed in the wild as the herd size grows.

Even if a split occurs at Werribee, there is no actual reason to split up the herd. If anything the size of the paddocks allow for the natural fission and fusion of matriarchal herd dynamics. When female lines get large in the wild they splinter of and come back together. The paddocks are large enough to facilitate this, and allow female lines to utilize different areas and then come back together. It would be a huge shame to see them disrupt this from occurring. In zoos with elephant complexes the size of one of there paddocks, we have seen aggression necessitating separation. But if there was a complex to allow proper female social dynamics to play out, werribee and monarto have the paddock space (if western plains pulled down and redone there elephant areas they would as well).

 

[Zoofan15]

And this is why the regional manager needs to be replaced. Honestly who cares about natural AI her. A male offspring would have application at Werribee and would mature at a time when they would need another bull.

I would be very surprised if Monarto do not breed her. Even without a recommendation for breeding. They have the space to breed 3 or 4 calves via AI and provide for them. What was the point of a huge expensive complex for a non breeding herd that wont fill it. Fitting it out for calves is easyish to do when the pocket the income from the elephants being onsite.

To be clear, I said the keeper I spoke to wasn’t aware of plans to breed from Pak Boon at Monarto. This indicates there’s no short term plans to breed from her within the next year or two; but beyond that is anyone’s guess.

As I said above, Monarto may be open to the possibility once the herd is onsite, integrated and settled. Hopefully the option will still be there by then, acknowledging it’s been seven years since Pak Boon last produced a calf and time is not on her side.

I would like to see her conceive ASAP, but that would undoubtedly complicate the upcoming introductions which are already complicated enough (four cows from three herds). I ultimately trust the judgement of those managing these animals. Their expertise is second to none and we should always assume there’s factors we haven’t considered/aren’t aware of in these situations.

 

[Tiger91]

To be clear, I said the keeper I spoke to wasn’t aware of plans to breed from Pak Boon at Monarto. This indicates there’s no short term plans to breed from her within the next year or two; but beyond that is anyone’s guess.

As I said above, Monarto may be open to the possibility once the herd is onsite, integrated and settled. Hopefully the option will still be there by then, acknowledging it’s been seven years since Pak Boon last produced a calf and time is not on her side.

I would like to see her conceive ASAP, but that would undoubtedly complicate the upcoming introductions which are already complicated enough (four cows from three herds). I ultimately trust the judgement of those managing these animals. Their expertise is second to none and we should always assume there’s factors we haven’t considered/aren’t aware of in these situations.

While the keepers are second to none, and are incredible at what they do. Lets not be in to much of a hurry to say the population manager/Breeding coordinator is. Western plains is becoming another example of poor decision making. While our region has a rich history of abysmal decision making when it comes to collection planning and breeding. The fact our private zoos are more adept and seem to have it together more then the majour zoos has a lot to say.

This AI decision is borderline illogical. Sexed semen is studied and by doing a quick google been used in asian elephants. Dubbo has a world leading facility fro reproductive sciences from there white rhino AI days. There is zero reason dubbo's herd should be in stagnation the way it is. Thong Dee could easily be Ai'd to try for a female calf using a different bull from within the region. With the small chance it being male being accounted for using a genetically valuable match. We don't have that much breeding success within the region to have necessitated them pausing breeding from two founder cows. Our only surviving calves are mali and luk chai. Even Pathi Harn isn't out of the safe period for a loss due to EEHV just yet.

It would be foolish if health isnt an issue to not breed Pakboon. But a decision that isn't outside our regions track record to make.

 

[Zorro]

Extremely disappointing news if so. Pak Boon is an unrepresented founder, so breeding from her should be a priority. I do recall however you theorising she may have been retired from the breeding program due to health issues, and I do wonder whether this has come into play. I really don't see any reason why Taronga would elect to transfer her across to Monarto otherwise when they know how valuable she is if Monarto does not have the breeding facilities available. It would be so unfortunate to lose another breeding cow regionally.

If Dubbo doesn't have the space to accommodate two additional cows (Pak Boon and Tang Mo), then worse case, why not Werribee. I get they may not want additional cows as their herd is very well structured as it is, however Pak Boon and Tang Mo would likely remember the other three Thai cows and worst case, they can't be integrated, Werribee have the facilities to accommodate them anyway (alongside the opportunity for natural breeding).

Absolutely agree if true

 

[Zorro]

While the keepers are second to none, and are incredible at what they do. Lets not be in to much of a hurry to say the population manager/Breeding coordinator is. Western plains is becoming another example of poor decision making. While our region has a rich history of abysmal decision making when it comes to collection planning and breeding. The fact our private zoos are more adept and seem to have it together more then the majour zoos has a lot to say.

This AI decision is borderline illogical. Sexed semen is studied and by doing a quick google been used in asian elephants. Dubbo has a world leading facility fro reproductive sciences from there white rhino AI days. There is zero reason dubbo's herd should be in stagnation the way it is. Thong Dee could easily be Ai'd to try for a female calf using a different bull from within the region. With the small chance it being male being accounted for using a genetically valuable match. We don't have that much breeding success within the region to have necessitated them pausing breeding from two founder cows. Our only surviving calves are mali and luk chai. Even Pathi Harn isn't out of the safe period for a loss due to EEHV just yet.

It would be foolish if health isnt an issue to not breed Pakboon. But a decision that isn't outside our regions track record to make.

There have been many bad decisions made by some of the managers over the years hope this is not going to be another one of them!

 

[Jambo]

This AI decision is borderline illogical. Sexed semen is studied and by doing a quick google been used in asian elephants. Dubbo has a world leading facility fro reproductive sciences from there white rhino AI days. There is zero reason dubbo's herd should be in stagnation the way it is. Thong Dee could easily be Ai'd to try for a female calf using a different bull from within the region. With the small chance it being male being accounted for using a genetically valuable match. We don't have that much breeding success within the region to have necessitated them pausing breeding from two founder cows. Our only surviving calves are mali and luk chai. Even Pathi Harn isn't out of the safe period for a loss due to EEHV just yet.

Completely agree, and although it's viewed as unnatural, it should still be undertaken if absolutely required for the preservation of the species within the region.

I'm also of the view that we haven't had enough success regionally to halt breeding. Other regions are doing so as a result of the extensive breeding results they've had and the limited spaces they have. Here, we also have limited spaces, but in the cases of Dubbo and Monarto this seems to be directly attributed to their barn holdings, which is something that could be easily improved.

Considering how much the region wanted to import these Thai cows twenty years ago and establish this breeding program, you'd think they'd be doing as much as they can to ensure it's long term success!

 

[Zorro]

Completely agree, and although it's viewed as unnatural, it should still be undertaken if absolutely required for the preservation of the species within the region.

I'm also of the view that we haven't had enough success regionally to halt breeding. Other regions are doing so as a result of the extensive breeding results they've had and the limited spaces they have. Here, we also have limited spaces, but in the cases of Dubbo and Monarto this seems to be directly attributed to their barn holdings, which is something that could be easily improved.

Considering how much the region wanted to import these Thai cows twenty years ago and establish this breeding program, you'd think they'd be doing as much as they can to ensure it's long term success!

It comes down to plain bad management which affects a lot of our current species

 

[Yassa]

It really makes me crazy that the Australian zoos do not allow for more breeding in natural intervals. So far, there are only 4 living female offspring. That means 20 years after the arrival of the Thai elephants, sustainability has not been archived since 7 females have been originally imported. You can’t have a self-sustaining population of elephants if so few breeding is allowed. It just does not work. Either make the effort to breed that at sufficient levels and put all effort into building space for bulls, or just leave it.

 

[Zoofan15]

It really makes me crazy that the Australian zoos do not allow for more breeding in natural intervals. So far, there are only 4 living female offspring. That means 20 years after the arrival of the Thai elephants, sustainability has not been archived since 7 females have been originally imported. You can’t have a self-sustaining population of elephants if so few breeding is allowed. It just does not work. Either make the effort to breed that at sufficient levels and put all effort into building space for bulls, or just leave it.

The succession situation is even more precarious when you consider of the four surviving female calves, three are aged 1-6 years; with 14 year old Mali being the only reproductive age cow (and mother to a two year old son):

Dokkoon (1993) - Mali (2010) and Aiyara (2022)

Porntip (1992) - Kanlaya (2018)

Num-Oi (2001) - Kati (2023)

There’s been encouraging progress with the development of an EEHV vaccine, but it will likely be some time before it’s tried and tested (and available to Australian zoos).

 

[Zorro]

It really makes me crazy that the Australian zoos do not allow for more breeding in natural intervals. So far, there are only 4 living female offspring. That means 20 years after the arrival of the Thai elephants, sustainability has not been archived since 7 females have been originally imported. You can’t have a self-sustaining population of elephants if so few breeding is allowed. It just does not work. Either make the effort to breed that at sufficient levels and put all effort into building space for bulls, or just leave it.

Well said unfortunately some of the zoos animals managers are making some very counter productive decisions I believe some are way out of their depth!

 

[Jambo]

The succession situation is even more precarious when you consider of the four surviving female calves, three are aged 1-6 years; with 14 year old Mali being the only reproductive age cow (and mother to a two year old son):

Dokkoon (1993) - Mali (2010) and Aiyara (2022)

Porntip (1992) - Kanlaya (2018)

Num-Oi (2001) - Kati (2023)

There’s been encouraging progress with the development of an EEHV vaccine, but it will likely be some time before it’s tried and tested (and available to Australian zoos).

Your absolutely right, and if Taronga has made the decision to ultimately remove Pak Boon from the breeding program, Thong Dee must be giving the opportunity to breed again to guarantee a fourth maternal founder line.

Considering it's been eight years now since her last birth it's crucial she breeds now if they hope to ever breed from her again. Dubbo did have issues with Sabai and Kanlaya being born eighteen months apart, so you'd hope Thong Dee is maybe already pregnant and due not long after Anjalee.

 

[Tiger91]

Completely agree, and although it's viewed as unnatural, it should still be undertaken if absolutely required for the preservation of the species within the region.

I'm also of the view that we haven't had enough success regionally to halt breeding. Other regions are doing so as a result of the extensive breeding results they've had and the limited spaces they have. Here, we also have limited spaces, but in the cases of Dubbo and Monarto this seems to be directly attributed to their barn holdings, which is something that could be easily improved.

Considering how much the region wanted to import these Thai cows twenty years ago and establish this breeding program, you'd think they'd be doing as much as they can to ensure it's long term success!

Zoos Victoria seems to be heading in the right direction with there elephants. And we will hopefully see the breeding program not go to waste on them. Dubbo, unless they start by actually investing in there elephants. We will likely see there herd slip away into a wasted capacity. Possibly this new barn is a move in the right direction, but I dont think it is. I think it's a step backwards.

Genetic diversity should be the absolute most important thing, utilising sexed semen and AI should be more important then if the practice is natural. Lions and tigers naturally hunt, yet we arnt throwing them a live antelope or deer to go to town on. The person that deemed that the idea to follow needs to wake up. Not to mention the genetic bottleneck it creates by only breeding to bulls that are able to breed naturally and are on site. Moving them around and disrupting there social bonds with the stress of being moved, so they can breed. Should be enough that when it's needed AI should be implemented. Especially if cohesive groupings of bulls that are happy to live together are established.

 

[Tiger91]

Your absolutely right, and if Taronga has made the decision to ultimately remove Pak Boon from the breeding program, Thong Dee must be giving the opportunity to breed again to guarantee a fourth maternal founder line.

Considering it's been eight years now since her last birth it's crucial she breeds now if they hope to ever breed from her again. Dubbo did have issues with Sabai and Kanlaya being born eighteen months apart, so you'd hope Thong Dee is maybe already pregnant and due not long after Anjalee.

Anjalee realistically should have been the middle cow to give birth, with **** tip first, then anjalee followed by Thong dee. That way she gets to Observe something she has probably never seen or if she has, not since her infancy. A mother with a small/new born calf. Of memory Porntip is the most maternal and would set a good role model for her, and it would do kanlaya a world of good to be exposed to her mother having another baby before she herself breeds.