Australasian Common Chimpanzee Population

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 Lol I'm a goose, you made clear mention of Spitter's offspring just now with your post detailing her family legacy and the likes, my bad.

Good reading your mention of the keepers and co at Taronga reflecting on how Snowy's experience was coming to live with the group and how they have done things differently with arriving Chimps in the last decade or so (would like to acknowledge the hard work of their keepers too and the big undertaking it was over five years slowly having Snowy integrated and slowly accepted {though from the sounds of it not entirely accepted} into the group) poor old (well shouldnt say old as he was young still when he died) Snowy, he too left his legacy mark too from what you've pointed out, even just focusing on Lubutu's 'reign'.

Makes complete sense now that you mention it of the approach when attempting to introduce new Chimpanzee's to a group is to bring in related new Chimpanzees together when undertaking attempts at introducing new Chimps's to a group.

No problem. The keepers worked wonders with Snowy. It was achieved by putting him in a seperate group from the most dominant adults and rotating a group of his allies between the two groups. This group of allies included Bessie, who was the first adult to accept him. Two of Snowy’s closest allies were Lisa and Shiba, while Lewis became a close friend as they were both juvenile males.

Ceres and Naomi are in invaluable source of support to each other. Naomi supported Ceres against Kuma, who was drawn into conflict with her a few years ago re. Fumo. Fumo was drawn to Cebele and invariably lose his temper, causing Ceres to explode. Then Kuma would rush in to defend Fumo.

 

[Zoofan15]

Taronga Zoo - Chimpanzee Update

Spitter:

The acute medical issue that Spitter suffered from was paralysis caused by a spinal issue. The onset was very sudden and euthanasia was the only humane option. The autopsy revealed she had additional liver problems and it was considered remarkable she made it to this age.

Right up until the end, Spitter doted on the infants of the troop, playing with Niambi, who used to enjoy hanging from Spitter’s foot. This was an example of the alloparenting Spitter so frequently showed during her 61 years.

Breeding plans:

Following a meeting to discuss the future of the community, keepers are preparing for some of the females to start cycling from next month. I was surprised to learn that Lisa will be among the females taken off contraception.

Lisa has dropped in ranking considerably since the death of Lubutu. Combined with Lani’s transfer, the only member of her family group is her seven and a half year old son, Liwali. This contributed to the decision to allow Lisa the chance to breed again.

That said, Lisa is 43 years old this year, so for her to produce a surviving infant at her age would be a record breaking feat. The oldest mother at Taronga Zoo was Fifi, who gave birth to a stillborn infant at the age of 40 in 1987.

 

[Jambo]

I was surprised to learn that Lisa will be among the females taken off contraception.

Quite unexpected! She's 43 and is very well represented due to the fact Lubutu was the previous alpha male; so it definitely seems to be due to helping boost her ranking again, as she only has Liwali left.

 

[Zoofan15]

Quite unexpected! She's 43 and is very well represented, due to the fact Lubutu was the previous alpha male; so it definitely seems to be due to helping boost her ranking again, as she only has Liwali left.

Yes, decisions are often made from a management perspective rather than a genetics perspective, with this being an example. Ideally both will come into play e.g. Ceres, who will also be taken off contraception.

The plan is to build up Ceres and Naomi’s family to fully integrate them into the community. Naomi is well integrated with Shiba’s family and a few of the other families; but Ceres isn’t as social.

 

[Jambo]

Yes, decisions are often made from a management perspective rather than a genetics perspective, with this being an example. Ideally both will come into play e.g. Ceres, who will also be taken off contraception.

The plan is to build up Ceres and Naomi’s family to fully integrate them into the community. Naomi is well integrated with Shiba’s family and a few of the other families; but Ceres isn’t as social.

The other adult females (aside from Lisa and the new girls), Sacha, Shiba and Kuma all each have at least two sons, which is what they would be aiming for I assume. Shiba though has to be one of the most represented females within the community, with three sons and two daughters. Now that her son, Samaki is the alpha, she's building quite a legacy with more grandchildren to come!

In regards to the females that will be taken off contraception, i'd imagine they would be Lisa, Kuma, Ceres, Kamili and Naomi? Possibly Sembe too? Or maybe Sembe will have to wait until the next round of births.

 

[Zoofan15]

The other adult females (aside from Lisa and the new girls), Sacha, Shiba and Kuma all each have at least two sons, which is what they would be aiming for I assume. Shiba though has to be one of the most represented females within the community, with three sons and two daughters. Now that her son, Samaki is the alpha, she's building quite a legacy with more grandchildren to come!

In regards to the females that will be taken off contraception, i'd imagine they would be Lisa, Kuma, Ceres, Kamili and Naomi? Possibly Sembe too? Or maybe Sembe will have to wait until the next round of births.

I believe Shiba’s been given preference with regards to breeding due to being the daughter of a founder. Sacha, Lisa and Kuma are all second generation females via their maternal lines.

Having a fifth offspring in the community has promoted Shiba to the postion of alpha female, which I understand the keepers are quite happy about. Shiba is largely a positive influence on the community. She gets on well with the other females and has a lot of patience with the younger chimps, including Fumo who’s been a challenge.

I managed to get confirmation of Lisa and Ceres. I’ve asked about other females, but I’d say Kuma and Kamili are the strongest candidates - for reasons of family support.

Naomi won’t be breeding until around 2023/2024 due to having a young infant. I’m guessing they’ll tie in her next infant with Sembe breeding. These two females get on well and it would help stagger the births with a few born 2022 and a couple born 2024.

 

[steveroberts]

@Zoofan15 @Jambo Heaps interesting reading through your posts and getting a bit of a much better idea of the group dynamics currently, really like the sound of Shiba's nature and exercising patience even with Fumo who sounds like has been/had been difficult in fitting in with the groups self idealised structure and hierarchy. Nice that Shiba interacts pretty well too with the other adult females from what you guys have noted, another positive significant adult member she sounds like (as we were all discussing on Friday a fair few of the males including some now passed but with the some of the male Chimps' was getting answers about their general natures and dynamic with their interactions with the others it's cool to hear a bit more too about the adult female individuals again because when you both made lots of mentions of most of them on Friday also along with Lubutu, Snowy, Shabani, Samaki, Chimbuku etc, felt like my questions only kind of gleamed over asking for background on the female adult Chimps'). Wow so Lisa could potentially be a mother again at 43, that would be cool for her especially from what you both pointed out with most likely helping boost her inter-community standing once again since the death of Lubutu. Wonder which Chimp' might be the first to fall pregnant again?

 

[Zoofan15]

@Zoofan15 @Jambo Heaps interesting reading through your posts and getting a bit of a much better idea of the group dynamics currently, really like the sound of Shiba's nature and exercising patience even with Fumo who sounds like has been/had been difficult in fitting in with the groups self idealised structure and hierarchy. Nice that Shiba interacts pretty well too with the other adult females from what you guys have noted, another positive significant adult member she sounds like (as we were all discussing on Friday a fair few of the males including some now passed but with the some of the male Chimps' was getting answers about their general natures and dynamic with their interactions with the others it's cool to hear a bit more too about the adult female individuals again because when you both made lots of mentions of most of them on Friday also along with Lubutu, Snowy, Shabani, Samaki, Chimbuku etc, felt like my questions only kind of gleamed over asking for background on the female adult Chimps'). Wow so Lisa could potentially be a mother again at 43, that would be cool for her especially from what you both pointed out with most likely helping boost her inter-community standing once again since the death of Lubutu. Wonder which Chimp' might be the first to fall pregnant again?

I think most of all, it’s important to provide Lisa with security as she heads into her senior years (she’s now the eldest in the community). This includes security in ranking as well as security in knowing she will have family in the community for the rest of her life - which currently rests on the survival of a single chimp (Liwali).

If allowed off contraception, I’d expect the younger females to conceive the fastest - Ceres, Kuma and Kamili (especially Ceres and Kamili who haven’t been on contraception long).

Infant mortality increases with maternal age. Prior to Liwali’s birth in 2014, no female over 35 had an infant survive to adulthood. Shiba at 38 now holds the record (assuming Safiri’s survival).

 

[Jambo]

I believe Shiba’s been given preference with regards to breeding due to being the daughter of a founder. Sacha, Lisa and Kuma are all second generation females via their maternal lines.

Isn’t Lisa a daughter of a founder (Lulu) too?

 

[steveroberts]

Spitter was a real tough old lady wasn't she, glad she's not suffering anymore but only imagine how much her loss is being felt in the community. But really nice to know that their will be new baby Chimps in the very near future

 

[Zoofan15]

Isn’t Lisa a daughter of a founder (Lulu) too?

Indeed she is. This is what happens I try to multitask Probably because I never thought I’d be discussing Lisa’s reproductive chances ever again. That really came out left field.

If I’m honest, I can’t see Lisa experiencing success in conceiving/producing a healthy infant; while I also doubt Kamili’s chances of rearing one.

I can see the outcome being a surviving offspring from Ceres and Kuma this year; and surviving offspring from Naomi and Sembe in 2024.

 

[Jambo]

I think most of all, it’s important to provide Lisa with security as she heads into her senior years (she’s now the eldest in the community). This includes security in ranking as well as security in knowing she will have family in the community for the rest of her life - which currently rests on the survival of a single chimp (Liwali).

If allowed off contraception, I’d expect the younger females to conceive the fastest - Ceres, Kuma and Kamili (especially Ceres and Kamili who haven’t been on contraception long).

Infant mortality increases with maternal age. Prior to Liwali’s birth in 2014, no female over 35 had an infant survive to adulthood. Shiba at 38 now holds the record (assuming Safiri’s survival).

It’s quite interesting to know that just a few years ago Lisa’s line was well represented within the group but with an export and an unfortunate death, the tables have quickly turned.

Fingers crossed for Kamili to have a successful pregnancy and birth. Maybe this is the right time, following the death of her mother (Koko) last year, who would kill her newborn offspring.

 

[Zoofan15]

Spitter was a real tough old lady wasn't she, glad she's not suffering anymore but only imagine how much her loss is being felt in the community. But really nice to know that their will be new baby Chimps in the very near future

Spitter has an impressive legacy for sure. Her daughter Sally is so much like her at Wellington Zoo - a natural mother, a higher ranking female and an alloparent.

My guess for sires of Safiri and Niambi was Shikamoo and Samaki respectively; but the prediction is Sule as the sire for Niambi, so Spitter may well have two more great grandchildren.

 

[Jambo]

Spitter was a real tough old lady wasn't she, glad she's not suffering anymore but only imagine how much her loss is being felt in the community. But really nice to know that their will be new baby Chimps in the very near future

She was really the grandma of the group. I’d imagine they’d really be feeling the loss of her, especially her daughter Sacha and her grandchildren, Shikamoo and Sule who she stood up for every single time they got into a dispute. Really nails down to who Spitter was. Not every zoo had a chimp like her.

 

[Jambo]

Spitter has an impressive legacy for sure. Her daughter Sally is so much like her at Wellington Zoo - a natural mother, a higher ranking female and an alloparent.

My guess for sires of Safiri and Niambi was Shikamoo and Samaki respectively; but the prediction is Sule as the sire for Niambi, so Spitter may well have two more great grandchildren.

Shiba does seem to prefer Shikamoo! I was told Naomi had a great relationship with Samaki so I’d have assumed he would’ve been the sire, but it does seem Taronga seem to believe it’s Sule which is interesting.

 

[Zoofan15]

It’s quite interesting to know that just a few years ago Lisa’s line was well represented within the group but with an export and an unfortunate death, the tables have quickly turned.

Fingers crossed for Kamili to have a successful pregnancy and birth. Maybe this is the right time, following the death of her mother (Koko) last year, who would kill her newborn offspring.

Lubutu’s death was so unexpected, but a timely reminder these animals can die at any age. Historically, management were always mindful of keeping at least one reproductive age female from each line to allow it to continue e.g. exporting Sally while maintaining Sacha; but as we saw with Bessie’s line, this can sometimes go wrong when chimps die unexpectedly.

Honestly, I think the damage has been done with Kamili. I’d love to see her succeed as a mother, but she has little idea what to do with her infants and will probably reject it. The best contingency could be attempting to foster it to another female (ideally within the community). Her closest relationship is with Kuma, who will hopefully be giving birth around the same time.

 

[Zoofan15]

Shiba does seem to prefer Shikamoo! I was told Naomi had a great relationship with Samaki so I’d have assumed he would’ve been the sire, but it does seem Taronga seem to believe it’s Sule which is interesting.

Same here. I also predicted Samaki as Niambi’s sire, combined with his status as the alpha male (predicted alpha male at conception). The prediction of Sule being the sire apparently came from the white hair on Niambi’s chin, which is a trait of Spitter’s line. Sally’s offspring at Wellington have had this as well - Mahinga, Beni etc.

 

[Jambo]

Same here. I also predicted Samaki as Niambi’s sire, combined with his status as the alpha male (predicted alpha male at conception). The prediction of Sule being the sire apparently came from the white hair on Niambi’s chin, which is a trait of Spitter’s line. Sally’s offspring at Wellington have had this as well - Mahinga, Beni etc.

That's very interesting. I would've thought the sire was Shikamoo over Sule, but maybe the assumption was made as Sule may be closer to Naomi?

I also recall Samaki being the father of Cebeli (2017)?

 

[Zoofan15]

That's very interesting. I would've thought the sire was Shikamoo over Sule, but maybe the assumption was made as Sule may be closer to Naomi?

I also recall Samaki being the father of Cebeli (2017)?

Interestingly, Shikamoo has suffered a fall from grace since the passing of Lubutu. While he initially maintained his popularity, the support for Samaki was far greater. While Furahi and Shikamoo made their own bids for alpha; Sule was smart enough to realise supporting Samaki was the way to go and overtook both of them.

Shikamoo became jealous of his younger brother and has at times taken his frustration out on the females. At one point, he attacked Shiba; which led to Shabani and Samaki beating him in defence of their mother. Shikamoo had since built bridges, but given his drop in ranking I’d be surprised if he sires more infants.

Yep, Samaki sired Cebele. Ceres conceived while the introductions were still taking place and Samaki was the only reproductively viable male in their small introduction troop, as Lubutu was vasectomised.

 

[Jambo]

Interestingly, Shikamoo has suffered a fall from grace since the passing of Lubutu. While he initially maintained his popularity, the support for Samaki was far greater. While Furahi and Shikamoo made their own bids for alpha; Sule was smart enough to realise supporting Samaki was the way to go and overtook both of them.

Shikamoo became jealous of his younger brother and has at times taken his frustration out on the females. At one point, he attacked Shiba; which led to Shabani and Samaki beating him in defence of their mother. Shikamoo had since built bridges, but given his drop in ranking I’d be surprised if he sires more infants.

Yep, Samaki sired Cebele. Ceres conceived while the introductions were still taking place and Samaki was the only reproductively viable male in their small introduction troop, as Lubutu was vasectomised.

It's a shame as Shikamoo was initially such a popular male amongst the girls. It's really interesting to see how some males go from having potential to losing it (eg. Shikamoo and Shabani). Wheras other males have come out of nowhere, such as Sule, to grab a high ranking position.

So since the move back to the current enclosure (in 2011), 6 offspring have been born. Sires are the following:

Fumo (2013) - Shikamoo
Sudi (2014) - Shikamoo
Liwali (2014) - Samaki
Cebeli (2017) - Samaki
Safiri (2019) - Unconfirmed (predication is Samaki)
Niambi (2021) - Unconfirmed (predication is Sule)