A much safer and better design!
Australasian Common Chimpanzee Population
- Thread starter Zoofan15
- Start date
After the deaths of Lobo (1989-1996) and Snowy (1983-1999) at Taronga Zoo, they moat was modified with steps and although remains a potential hazard near the rocks, is significantly safer - as proved by the total reduction in deaths since.
Sydney Zoo should really rethink their designs based on what’s worked (or hasn’t worked) at other zoos in the region. This is a tragedy, which can only be minimised if lessons are learnt from it.
Since it is a brand new zoo one would believe how such a bad design would happen. As this has happened before on other zoos I cant see how this was over looked. I feel for the staff. I believe having the media hovering over the event in a chopper was less then tack full.
From looking at the photos and footage it looks as though there is a step within the moat, and hot wires mounted along the waters edge too.
The moat Wellington does look very shallow though and (I don’t know exactly how deep it is) going off the footage I don’t know if it would meet the 1.45m water depth requirement for chimp exhibits in nsw.
To add on to the discussion about moat vs no moats, although it’s a massive tragedy when something like this occurs, I don’t think it’s fair to blame zoos for choosing a moated exhibit over a glass fronted or mesh enclosure. Zoos need to cater to pleasing the masses, and no matter how hard you try to explain it, general public will always see a caged exhibit as cruel and a moated exhibit as being open and almost free ranging. Even in my own personal experience I must say that sitting on a rock at Mogo Zoo looking at a siamang with only a few meters of water between us is a very special moment, something that can’t be matched by a window. I just think with all the unnecessary bad media zoos get, it’s only fair that they do their best too look open and natural. Saying using moats is a bad thing is the same as saying fences are bad at containing a Bongo or macropods because they might run into them and die, but I do agree the stepping/sloping to allow them out of the water is important.
The moat Wellington does look very shallow though and (I don’t know exactly how deep it is) going off the footage I don’t know if it would meet the 1.45m water depth requirement for chimp exhibits in nsw.
To add on to the discussion about moat vs no moats, although it’s a massive tragedy when something like this occurs, I don’t think it’s fair to blame zoos for choosing a moated exhibit over a glass fronted or mesh enclosure. Zoos need to cater to pleasing the masses, and no matter how hard you try to explain it, general public will always see a caged exhibit as cruel and a moated exhibit as being open and almost free ranging. Even in my own personal experience I must say that sitting on a rock at Mogo Zoo looking at a siamang with only a few meters of water between us is a very special moment, something that can’t be matched by a window. I just think with all the unnecessary bad media zoos get, it’s only fair that they do their best too look open and natural. Saying using moats is a bad thing is the same as saying fences are bad at containing a Bongo or macropods because they might run into them and die, but I do agree the stepping/sloping to allow them out of the water is important.
Did he fall in- or was he chased maybe? Many years ago an adult male in Apenheul (Netherlands) was involved in an aggressive interaction with other group members- he was fleeing, tried to jump the moat and failed. He drowned as a result, though some newspaper reports claimed he had 'comitted suicide'...
Did he fall in- or was he chased maybe? Many years ago an adult male in Apenheul (Netherlands) was involved in an aggressive interaction with other group members- he was fleeing, tried to jump the moat and failed. He drowned as a result, though some newspaper reports claimed he had 'comitted suicide'...
No details have been released by the zoo. It’s only from media reports that we learned his body was recovered from the exhibit moat (indicating a drowning). It’s not a large exhibit and an altercation seems a probable cause.
The death of the second male at Taronga occurred in similar circumstances to the one you describe. He was having an altercation within the troop and apparently misjudged his trajectory, leading to him landing in the water.
The baboons, capuchins and spider monkeys all have the same moat; while the orangutans have something similar, with an o-line passing overhead.
While there’s numerous instances online of chimpanzees drowning in moats, there’s only a handful of gorillas; and even less of orangutans. Like I said in Australasia, all three drownings involved young male chimpanzees who are known for their high energy displays - something less commonly seen in gorillas; and never seen in orangutans, whose handful of drownings have been as a result of them falling in.
The birth of Samantha’s infant is imminent:
This will be a genetically valuable infant given the father was imported from Europe; and the mother is only surviving offspring of two wild born founders.
This will be a genetically valuable infant given the father was imported from Europe; and the mother is only surviving offspring of two wild born founders.
I hope this birth has a happier outcome than last time.
The mortality of infants born to mothers over the age of 35 (Samantha is 36.5) is statistically high, but the fact this isn’t Samantha’s first birth will go in her favour.
A few females in recent years have given birth at a similar age without issue - Sanda at 35 (third birth); Lisa at 35 (fourth birth); and Shiba at 38 (sixth birth).
Some of the Wellington females would have been quite old too right?
No, they’ve all been relatively young. Of the current females - Jessie last gave birth at 19, Cara at 23, Samantha at 26, Sally at 27 and Keza at 16.
Devastating news.
Samantha delivered a stillborn male today. She had to have a C-section to assist with the delivery.
Log into Facebook | Facebook
Devastating news.
Samantha delivered a stillborn male today. She had to have a C-section to assist with the delivery.
Log into Facebook | Facebook
That’s devastating news, especially given the genetic value this infant would have had.
Sadly given Samantha’s age and the fact she’s now had two stillbirths, it doesn’t bode well for her future reproductive success.
If it happens again, they may well sterilise her to prevent similar events in the future which could eventually prove fatal for Samantha.
My thoughts go out to Rockhampton Zoo during this difficult time and applaud their efforts to communicate openly with the public on this event.
Further information on Samantha’s tragic stillbirth:
'Heartbreaking': Rockhampton zookeepers nurse beloved chimp through the pain of losing a second baby
'Heartbreaking': Rockhampton zookeepers nurse beloved chimp through the pain of losing a second baby
0.1 Sally at Hamilton Zoo has died at the age of 50 due to an underlying heart condition: Hamilton Zoo farewells much-loved chimpanzee Sally
Sally (1970-2021)
I was saddened to hear of the death of Sally at Hamilton Zoo this week. I first visited Sally at Auckland Zoo as a child in the 2000’s and have since enjoyed visiting her with my own children at Hamilton Zoo. As the smallest of the adults; her distinctive ears (one was smaller than the other); and her preference for human company (evidenced by her often choosing to sit by the viewing window), Sally was easy to spot and a crowd favourite amongst visitors young and old.
Sally was born in an era when chimpanzee births were still relatively uncommon in captivity and highly celebrated events. Many of the region’s zoos welcomed their first infants around this time, all instant media stars, and Auckland Zoo celebrated the birth of Suzie in 1964; and Sally in 1970. Their parents, who both died in 1971, were named Charlie and Sissy. I know little about Sissy; but Charlie‘s mentioned in A Tiger by the Tail - a History of Auckland Zoo and was described as a small chimpanzee, a trait which Sally appeared to have inherited.
Charlie and Sissy were tea party chimps, captured as infants from the wild in the 1950’s and shipped to Auckland Zoo via an animal dealer. The capture process and subsequent humanisation of these animals would leave a lasting legacy of antisocial chimpanzees; which had a flow on effect to the next generation, their offspring which they didn’t know how to raise.
In 1982, when Suzie and Sally were aged 18 and 12 years old respectively, they were joined by a nine year old male chimpanzee named Mike. Mike, a mother raised male, had been brought in to breed with Suzie and Sally. Although they were successfully integrated, breeding failed to occur and Auckland Zoo imported a 10 year old mother raised female named Lucy in 1985. The theory, according to press releases at the time, was that Suzie and Sally would learn reproductive behaviour through observation. Some believe that chimpanzees (and many other primate species) have a critical learning period that ends around adolescence; and indeed, they never produced offspring of their own.
In 1998, Auckland’s troop (which now included Mike and Lucy’s sons, Lucifer born 1988; and Luka born 1993) came to screens across the world via The Zoo TV show. Episodes around the early 2000’s centred around keeper’s efforts to distract Luka as he entered adolescence and began to harass Suzie and Sally. As Luka grew into majestic adulthood and assumed the alpha role, he developed a closer relationship with Sally. Luka was besotted with Sally to the point he completely ignored his intended mate, Sanda, when the two females were concurrently in season.
Seven years after her arrival, Sanda finally conceived and gave birth to Chiku in 2016 and Kendi in 2020. Though never a mother, Sally expressed her lifelong affinity for infants through her interactions with the new generation of her troop and thanks to the dedication of all those who cared for her in her 50 remarkable years, at least got to experience life as an integrated member of a natural troop.
Rest In Peace Sally.
I was saddened to hear of the death of Sally at Hamilton Zoo this week. I first visited Sally at Auckland Zoo as a child in the 2000’s and have since enjoyed visiting her with my own children at Hamilton Zoo. As the smallest of the adults; her distinctive ears (one was smaller than the other); and her preference for human company (evidenced by her often choosing to sit by the viewing window), Sally was easy to spot and a crowd favourite amongst visitors young and old.
Sally was born in an era when chimpanzee births were still relatively uncommon in captivity and highly celebrated events. Many of the region’s zoos welcomed their first infants around this time, all instant media stars, and Auckland Zoo celebrated the birth of Suzie in 1964; and Sally in 1970. Their parents, who both died in 1971, were named Charlie and Sissy. I know little about Sissy; but Charlie‘s mentioned in A Tiger by the Tail - a History of Auckland Zoo and was described as a small chimpanzee, a trait which Sally appeared to have inherited.
Charlie and Sissy were tea party chimps, captured as infants from the wild in the 1950’s and shipped to Auckland Zoo via an animal dealer. The capture process and subsequent humanisation of these animals would leave a lasting legacy of antisocial chimpanzees; which had a flow on effect to the next generation, their offspring which they didn’t know how to raise.
In 1982, when Suzie and Sally were aged 18 and 12 years old respectively, they were joined by a nine year old male chimpanzee named Mike. Mike, a mother raised male, had been brought in to breed with Suzie and Sally. Although they were successfully integrated, breeding failed to occur and Auckland Zoo imported a 10 year old mother raised female named Lucy in 1985. The theory, according to press releases at the time, was that Suzie and Sally would learn reproductive behaviour through observation. Some believe that chimpanzees (and many other primate species) have a critical learning period that ends around adolescence; and indeed, they never produced offspring of their own.
In 1998, Auckland’s troop (which now included Mike and Lucy’s sons, Lucifer born 1988; and Luka born 1993) came to screens across the world via The Zoo TV show. Episodes around the early 2000’s centred around keeper’s efforts to distract Luka as he entered adolescence and began to harass Suzie and Sally. As Luka grew into majestic adulthood and assumed the alpha role, he developed a closer relationship with Sally. Luka was besotted with Sally to the point he completely ignored his intended mate, Sanda, when the two females were concurrently in season.
Seven years after her arrival, Sanda finally conceived and gave birth to Chiku in 2016 and Kendi in 2020. Though never a mother, Sally expressed her lifelong affinity for infants through her interactions with the new generation of her troop and thanks to the dedication of all those who cared for her in her 50 remarkable years, at least got to experience life as an integrated member of a natural troop.
Rest In Peace Sally.
Old Chimpanzee Photos (Taronga Zoo)
I came across these old photos of chimpanzees at Taronga Zoo. Click on the links to view/buy if you wish.
Susie (1948-1995):
Suzzy, a 39 yrs old chimpanzee, which is the only chim in the world... News Photo - Getty Images
Suzzy, a 39 yrs old chimpanzee, which is the only chim in the world... News Photo - Getty Images
This is the first time I’ve seen photos of Susie, who died in 1995. She was apparently a large, confident female, but only middle ranking - likely due to her time out the group for treatment for diabetes and because she had a succession of daughters (sons are good for status). Susie has many living descendants in the region including her daughter, Shiba; her granddaughters, Samantha and Shona; and her grandson, Cassius.
Sonny (1978-1989):
With chimps - as with humans - the younger members of the species are... News Photo - Getty Images
Sonny was the only son of Susie, who also gave birth to eight daughters. Sonny was an ambitious male and briefly became alpha. He was a tyrant and was removed from the group ahead of Snowy’s introduction. He died in 1989, shortly after plans to export him to the USA fell through. Sonny sired four offspring, most of which were killed by the adolescent male, Mervin.
Lisa (1979) and her first infant, Lobo (1989-1996):
Chimpanzee mother "Lisa" give birth to a baby Male At Taronga Zoo on... News Photo - Getty Images
Chimpanzee mother "Lisa" gave birth to a baby male at Taronga Zoo on... News Photo - Getty Images
Lobo sadly drowned in the exhibit moat in 1996.
Lisa (1979) and her second infant, Lubutu (1989-1996):
Snowy's Dynasty Begins! - 13 yrs old Lisa with her baby... News Photo - Getty Images
An interesting note that Lisa rejected Lubutu at birth, but later accepted him. This may have stemmed from observing her own mother, Lulu, who wasn’t a very good mother by all accounts. Lulu was noted to have neglected her last offspring, Leakey, who was euthanised after being injured by Mervin when she was a few months old. Lulu also struggled to look after her twins born in 1983, who were euthanised after an attack by Mary left them with critical injuries. Lisa, then four, unfortunately witnessed this. Lisa’s own daughter, Lani, also rejected her first infant in 2017.
Snowy (1983-1999):
Left to right Snowy the chimp at Taronga Zoo, with friend. April 10,... News Photo - Getty Images
Snowy the chimp at Taronga Zoo. April 10, 1991. . News Photo - Getty Images
Snowy sired several offspring including Kuma, Lubutu and Sandali. Snowy is also a full brother of Boyd and Marty. Snowy died an untimely death in 1999, through drowning in the exhibit moat.
Lewis (1985-1996):
Intimate animal moments at Taronga Zoo.Chimpanzees Snowy and Lewis at... News Photo - Getty Images
Lewis was the son of Lulu and younger brother of Lisa. He was vasectomised to increase the odds of Snowy siring offspring.
I came across these old photos of chimpanzees at Taronga Zoo. Click on the links to view/buy if you wish.
Susie (1948-1995):
Suzzy, a 39 yrs old chimpanzee, which is the only chim in the world... News Photo - Getty Images
Suzzy, a 39 yrs old chimpanzee, which is the only chim in the world... News Photo - Getty Images
This is the first time I’ve seen photos of Susie, who died in 1995. She was apparently a large, confident female, but only middle ranking - likely due to her time out the group for treatment for diabetes and because she had a succession of daughters (sons are good for status). Susie has many living descendants in the region including her daughter, Shiba; her granddaughters, Samantha and Shona; and her grandson, Cassius.
Sonny (1978-1989):
With chimps - as with humans - the younger members of the species are... News Photo - Getty Images
Sonny was the only son of Susie, who also gave birth to eight daughters. Sonny was an ambitious male and briefly became alpha. He was a tyrant and was removed from the group ahead of Snowy’s introduction. He died in 1989, shortly after plans to export him to the USA fell through. Sonny sired four offspring, most of which were killed by the adolescent male, Mervin.
Lisa (1979) and her first infant, Lobo (1989-1996):
Chimpanzee mother "Lisa" give birth to a baby Male At Taronga Zoo on... News Photo - Getty Images
Chimpanzee mother "Lisa" gave birth to a baby male at Taronga Zoo on... News Photo - Getty Images
Lobo sadly drowned in the exhibit moat in 1996.
Lisa (1979) and her second infant, Lubutu (1989-1996):
Snowy's Dynasty Begins! - 13 yrs old Lisa with her baby... News Photo - Getty Images
An interesting note that Lisa rejected Lubutu at birth, but later accepted him. This may have stemmed from observing her own mother, Lulu, who wasn’t a very good mother by all accounts. Lulu was noted to have neglected her last offspring, Leakey, who was euthanised after being injured by Mervin when she was a few months old. Lulu also struggled to look after her twins born in 1983, who were euthanised after an attack by Mary left them with critical injuries. Lisa, then four, unfortunately witnessed this. Lisa’s own daughter, Lani, also rejected her first infant in 2017.
Snowy (1983-1999):
Left to right Snowy the chimp at Taronga Zoo, with friend. April 10,... News Photo - Getty Images
Snowy the chimp at Taronga Zoo. April 10, 1991. . News Photo - Getty Images
Snowy sired several offspring including Kuma, Lubutu and Sandali. Snowy is also a full brother of Boyd and Marty. Snowy died an untimely death in 1999, through drowning in the exhibit moat.
Lewis (1985-1996):
Intimate animal moments at Taronga Zoo.Chimpanzees Snowy and Lewis at... News Photo - Getty Images
Lewis was the son of Lulu and younger brother of Lisa. He was vasectomised to increase the odds of Snowy siring offspring.
