Australasian Sumatran Tiger Population

ApeLadyNZ said:
That is excellent news - congratulations to both Auckland and Hamilton Zoos!
Click to expand...

It’s a great outcome, with Auckland now near guaranteed a repeat breeding recommendation within the next three years.

Bashi at Wellington Zoo is one of the five oldest tigers in the region; and Senja is in her mid-teens. When they pass on, I’d anticipate they’d become a non-breeding holder, potentially receiving surplus cubs bred within New Zealand.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I’m also anticipating Taronga Zoo will want to import a tigress to pair with Penmanah (2019); with his sisters remaining together in a cohesive grouping. Though he’s three years younger than Reggie and I would expect Orana to be given preference on receiving a female from Auckland’s litter; in the event there’s two female cubs, then it’s certainly a possibility.

This would presumably tie in with Taronga’s three older tigers being retired to Dubbo; and the two young females (born 2019) being transferred to another Australian zoo or wildlife park as a non-breeding pair. Sydney Zoo, Tasmania Zoo and Perth Zoo all have elderly tigers.
Click to expand...

Taronga has 3 on display tiger exhibits in tiger trek, and they tend to keep tigers in two of them at least. Which actually works quite well, apart from being a nice area/exhibits it makes it very easy to see a tiger if not multiple tigers. Which has been a win for displaying the species with the public.

With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see Clarence and kartika retired to western plains. While they keep the two sisters as a cohesive grouping at Taronga in one exhibit. While they have Penmanah and a new female take over as the breeding pair. That would be an ideal situation for them.
 
Zoofan15 said:
An excellent start to the year for the region’s tiger population:

Hamilton Zoo is delighted to announce the birth of two Sumatran Tiger cubs. Born to Kirana (mother) and Scout (father) in the early hours of 3 January 2024, the cubs are healthy and strong.

They are the first cubs born at Hamilton Zoo since the birth of Kirana and her brother Kembali in 2008.

Auckland Zoo:

0.0.1 Unnamed (02/01/2024) Ramah x Zayana
0.0.1 Unnamed (02/01/2024) Ramah x Zayana

Hamilton Zoo:

0.0.1 Unnamed (03/01/2024) Scout x Kirana
0.0.1 Unnamed (03/01/2024) Scout x Kirana
Click to expand...

This is wonderful news. I gather this would be a regional first to have two litters born on consecutive days?
 
Tiger91 said:
Taronga has 3 on display tiger exhibits in tiger trek, and they tend to keep tigers in two of them at least. Which actually works quite well, apart from being a nice area/exhibits it makes it very easy to see a tiger if not multiple tigers. Which has been a win for displaying the species with the public.

With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see Clarence and kartika retired to western plains. While they keep the two sisters as a cohesive grouping at Taronga in one exhibit. While they have Penmanah and a new female take over as the breeding pair. That would be an ideal situation for them.
Click to expand...

I think retiring Kembali (2011), Kartika (2011) and Clarence (2013) to Dubbo makes sense. Even if Auckland can supply a female cub from this litter, the transfer would still be at least 18 months away and could possibly be delayed a year or two if Taronga needs to wait for their elderly tigers at Dubbo to pass on before transferring the older trio from Taronga. The alternative is to transfer Clarence and Kartika to another zoo/wildlife park.

Retaining the two 2020 sisters would be fine in the short term; but as the cubs of the next breeding pair mature, either they or the cubs would likely need to transfer out.
 
Abbey said:
This is wonderful news. I gather this would be a regional first to have two litters born on consecutive days?
Click to expand...

Yes it is! The record is otherwise Soraya at Dreamworld giving birth on 09/06/2008; followed by Molek at Auckland Zoo giving birth three days later on 12/06/2008. Setia gave birth to two litters - each two months either side of those two litters in April and August 2008.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I think retiring Kembali (2011), Kartika (2011) and Clarence (2013) to Dubbo makes sense. Even if Auckland can supply a female cub from this litter, the transfer would still be at least 18 months away and could possibly be delayed a year or two if Taronga needs to wait for their elderly tigers at Dubbo to pass on before transferring the older trio from Taronga. The alternative is to transfer Clarence and Kartika to another zoo/wildlife park.

Retaining the two 2020 sisters would be fine in the short term; but as the cubs of the next breeding pair mature, either they or the cubs would likely need to transfer out.
Click to expand...

With western plains having 3 ageing tigers those 3 would fill that gap nicely. I couldn't see them sending kartika and Clarence to another zoo when they have a profile in Taronga/taronga western plains. Kembali I wouldn't be surprised if they transfer out/im surprised she is still there.
However it works for Taronga to have a decent number of tigers on site. Even with a new breeding pair, the two sister and cubs. If the sisters can be kept as a cohesive grouping. Taronga has the space for it.
Not to mention western plains wasted all that money on a state of the art tiger facility that can house 12 tigers and they keep 3 geriatrics. If Taronga ever needed the space or to move tigers. They have plenty of ability to between both sites.
 
Tiger91 said:
With western plains having 3 raging tigers those 3 would fill that gap nicely. I couldn't see them sending kartika and Clarence to another zoo when they have a profile in Taronga/taronga western plains. Kimbali I wouldn't be surprised if they transfer out/im surprised she is still there.
However it works for Taronga to have a decent number of tigers on site. Even with a new breeding pair, the two sister and cubs. If the sisters can be kept as a cohesive grouping. Taronga has the space for it.
Not to mention western plains wasted all that money on a state of the art tiger facility that can house 12 tigers and they keep 3 geriatrics. If Taronga ever needed the space or to move tigers. They have plenty of ability to between both sites.
Click to expand...

While it was reported that the TWPZ facility can hold up to 12 tigers, it would be interesting to know whether that is still the case. While I don't believe that the facilities themselves have been reduced, as expectations change regarding how much space is required for captive animals, perhaps this has been reduced.

I am visiting Dubbo next week, all going to plan, so I will try to ask about their plans for tigers going forward. If you have any other questions you would like me to ask, please feel free to post them in the Taronga speculation/fantasy thread and I'll do my best to ask them - I might get more chances as I'm planning on doing a few tours while I'm there.
 
Tiger91 said:
With western plains having 3 ageing tigers those 3 would fill that gap nicely. I couldn't see them sending kartika and Clarence to another zoo when they have a profile in Taronga/taronga western plains. Kimbali I wouldn't be surprised if they transfer out/im surprised she is still there.
However it works for Taronga to have a decent number of tigers on site. Even with a new breeding pair, the two sister and cubs. If the sisters can be kept as a cohesive grouping. Taronga has the space for it.
Not to mention western plains wasted all that money on a state of the art tiger facility that can house 12 tigers and they keep 3 geriatrics. If Taronga ever needed the space or to move tigers. They have plenty of ability to between both sites.
Click to expand...
Abbey said:
While it was reported that the TWPZ facility can hold up to 12 tigers, it would be interesting to know whether that is still the case. While I don't believe that the facilities themselves have been reduced, as expectations change regarding how much space is required for captive animals, perhaps this has been reduced.

I am visiting Dubbo next week, all going to plan, so I will try to ask about their plans for tigers going forward. If you have any other questions you would like me to ask, please feel free to post them in the Taronga speculation/fantasy thread and I'll do my best to ask them - I might get more chances as I'm planning on doing a few tours while I'm there.
Click to expand...

I’m open to correction, but I believe the capacity of 12 tigers at Dubbo is reliant on multiple cohesive groupings (sibling groups etc). Taronga’s complex has been stated to have a capacity of eight tigers for example, yet they only have three exhibits.

Accomodating six adult tigers separately at Dubbo could be a stretch and would require multiple tigers to be confined to the dens while others are on exhibit, which isn’t ideal. Their eldest tigers at Dubbo turn 18 and 17 this year, so they may not be around for much longer.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I’m open to correction, but I believe the capacity of 12 tigers at Dubbo is reliant on multiple cohesive groupings (sibling groups etc). Taronga’s complex has been stated to have a capacity of eight tigers for example, yet they only have three exhibits.

Accomodating six adult tigers separately at Dubbo could be a stretch and would require multiple tigers to be confined to the dens while others are on exhibit, which isn’t ideal. Their eldest tigers at Dubbo turn 18 and 17 this year, so they may not be around for much longer.
Click to expand...


To be honest im not exactly sure in what capacity the upgrades went. I have heard off friends that work/have worked there that the upgrades added extra dens and of exhibit areas. Im assuming given the nature of tigers and the fact that they can go well together and then not, that the multi million expansion would of accounted for this. At least to some degree. And that the zoo itself wouldn't advertise 12 as capacity if they were not confident in keep 12 tigers if issues arose.

Taronga also has the 3 on exhibit enclosures, then 2 back of house enclosures plus the 8 dens.
I don't; know how to/forget how to post images. This link has the plans for tiger trek where you can see the two smaller back of house enclosures. Taronga Zoo Tiger Trek — lahznimmo architects
 
Tiger91 said:
To be honest im not exactly sure in what capacity the upgrades went. I have heard off friends that work/have worked there that the upgrades added extra dens and of exhibit areas. Im assuming given the nature of tigers and the fact that they can go well together and then not, that the multi million expansion would of accounted for this. At least to some degree. And that the zoo itself wouldn't advertise 12 as capacity if they were not confident in keep 12 tigers if issues arose.

Taronga also has the 3 on exhibit enclosures, then 2 back of house enclosures plus the 8 dens.
I don't; know how to/forget how to post images. This link has the plans for tiger trek where you can see the two smaller back of house enclosures. Taronga Zoo Tiger Trek — lahznimmo architects
Click to expand...

This is the image showing the exhibits, with the two BOH exhibits listed as No. 4:

Taronga Zoo - Sumatran Tiger Complex Map

upload_2024-1-4_0-9-31.jpeg
Source: Taronga Zoo Tiger Trek — lahznimmo architects
 

Attachments

  • upload_2024-1-4_0-9-31.jpeg
    upload_2024-1-4_0-9-31.jpeg
    73.9 KB · Views: 72
Abbey said:
While it was reported that the TWPZ facility can hold up to 12 tigers, it would be interesting to know whether that is still the case. While I don't believe that the facilities themselves have been reduced, as expectations change regarding how much space is required for captive animals, perhaps this has been reduced.

I am visiting Dubbo next week, all going to plan, so I will try to ask about their plans for tigers going forward. If you have any other questions you would like me to ask, please feel free to post them in the Taronga speculation/fantasy thread and I'll do my best to ask them - I might get more chances as I'm planning on doing a few tours while I'm there.
Click to expand...


My only majour question would be around what capacity they have for tigers, and how many of display enclosures they have.
It would be interesting to see if they have reduced there initial numbers down.

Will be interesting to see what you think of the zoo. Im thinking of doing the the overnight stay in autumn!.
 
Tiger91 said:
My only majour question would be around what capacity they have for tigers, and how many of display enclosures they have.
It would be interesting to see if they have reduced there initial numbers down.

Will be interesting to see what you think of the zoo. Im thinking of doing the the overnight stay in autumn!.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to see a phase out of hybrids in the coming years. Sydney Zoo has three elderly hybrids and Dreamworld hasn’t bred hybrids in five years. Ballarat hold two young hybrids. Bearing in mind Dreamworld intend to scale back their holdings, that’s still at least 10 spaces between those three facilities that could be added to the Sumatran tiger breeding programme.

Dreamworld has only two white tigers, which I presume are their main crowd pullers. They could easily retain two (non-breeding) white tigers, with the remaining spaces dedicated to purebred Sumatran tigers. If they took the initiative to import from outside the region, they could likely be assured the breeding recommendations to continue producing cubs for the decade or so to follow.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Auckland Zoo - Birth Plan
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/505604/baby-boom-at-auckland-zoo

An interesting comment from the zoo’s Head of Animal Care:

This birth might go really well, but what we do know with tigers is the normal behaviour is they keep their cubs tucked away in a quiet place in a den. Or it might be under a dense tree or wherever they choose to give birth, and they'll have two or three places where they hide their cubs. Showing off the cubs will be up to Zayana, which could take two to three weeks.

———————

Throughout the 1990’s and 2000’s, the same formula was repeated where a tigress gave birth, reared her cubs in seclusion for around 10-12 weeks and then emerged from the den. Therefore it’s interesting to hear the comment Zayana could take two to three weeks to show off her cubs. Zayana gave birth to her first litter in the small exhibit back in September and indeed it’s noted her birth site could be one of several places (with access to the dens also offered).

Due to giving birth heading into summer, Sali at Hamilton Zoo was also seen intermittently on exhibit with her cubs from a few weeks of age. She was given the option of having access to the exhibit and often chose it. With this in mind, I noted the smallest of Auckland Zoo’s three exhibits would be ideal for facilitating something similar as it’s a small grassed exhibit with a cave, no obvious hazards and is well screened by bamboo to offer privacy.

Aside from giving birth in June (i.e. winter), this isn’t an option that would have been recommended for Molek and her cubs in 2008 due to the nature of the old exhibit (built in 1922 with steep concrete slopes).

I commend the zoo for building a complex that allows the tigress multiple options and following a husbandry plan that is ultimately led by Zayana. In terms of welfare, this is exceptional.

View attachment 675296
Photo taken by myself of Auckland Zoo’s smallest tiger exhibit
Click to expand...
Maybe they mistyped and meant 2-3 months...
 
Nico and Meta’s Descendants (2024)

Introduction:

As we all know, the pairing of Nico and Meta is the most represented line in Australasia. 37 of the 44 Sumatran tigers in the region descend from them, including the four cubs born this week.

Nico and Meta had eight named cubs. Mandau and Musara were sent to the Ueno Zoo; Sinta, Usha and Kali were sent to San Diego Zoo; Shiva and Jambi remained in the region; and Lunka died as a juvenile.

33 of the Sumatran tigers in the region descend from Shiva, Jambi or both; while the import of Ramah and Zayana in 2022 represented the introduction of Kali’s branch to the region. Kali produced a total of nine cubs in the US and is well represented across North America.

Jambi’s branch is well represented across Europe via the export of his grandson (Tenang) and great-grandaughter (Melati); while Shiva has a grandaughter (Isha) in Europe, who has never produced offspring.

Ramah and Zayana’s ancestry:

This is Ramah and Zayana’s ancestry (in relation to Nico/Meta):

Nico (1976) and Meta (1975) > Kali (1985) > George (1998) > Kami Sambol (2008) > Ramah (2017).

Nico (1976) and Meta (1975) > Kali (1985) > Aneh (1991) > Kavi (2001) > Sanjiv (2011) > Zayana (2018).

List of descendants:

A list of all Nico and Meta’s living Australasian descendants (arranged by branches of their offspring - Kali, Shiva and Jambi):

1.0 Ramah (08/07/2017) Imported 2022
0.1 Zayana (15/10/2018) Imported 2022
0.0.1 Unnamed (02/01/2024) Ramah x Zayana
0.0.1 Unnamed (02/01/2024) Ramah x Zayana

1.0 Satu (28/10/2006) Ramalon x Binjai
1.0 Aceh (09/02/2010) Ramalon x Binjai
1.0 Hutan (09/02/2010) Ramalon x Binjai
0.1 Rani (09/02/2010) Ramalon x Binjai
0.1 Indrah (09/02/2010) Ramalon x Binjai
1.0 Mati (21/08/2010) Lari x Soraya
1.0 Indra (21/08/2010) Lari x Soraya
0.1 Senja (21/08/2010) Lari x Soraya
1.0 Kembali (20/08/2011) Satu x Jumilah
1.0 Sakti (20/08/2011) Satu x Jumilah
0.1 Kartika (20/08/2011) Satu x Jumilah
1.0 Hunter (22/08/2013) Ramalon x Kaitlyn
1.0 Clarence (22/08/2013) Ramalon x Kaitlyn
1.0 Pemanah (17/01/2019) Clarence x Kartika
0.1 Mawar (17/01/2019) Clarence x Kartika
0.1 Tengah Malam (17/01/2019) Clarence x Kartika

0.1 Sali (10/04/2008) Hari x Setia
0.1 Cinta (12/06/2008) Oz x Molek
1.0 Jaya (20/08/2008) Hari x Setia
1.0 Kembali (16/11/2014) Oz x Sali
0.1 Kirana (16/11/2014) Oz x Sali

0.1 Singha (01/04/2004) Lari x Malu
1.0 Scout (08/02/2016) Juma x Kaitlyn
0.1 Delilah (08/02/2016) Juma x Kaitlyn
1.0 Nelson (03/06/2019) Ranu x Kaitlyn
1.0 Malcolm (18/02/2020) Ranu x Kaitlyn
0.1 Sallie (18/02/2020) Ranu x Kaitlyn
0.1 Sage (18/02/2020) Ranu x Kaitlyn
1.0 Ketambe (21/12/2022) Kembali x Delilah
0.1 Marni (21/12/2022) Kembali x Delilah
0.1 Susu (21/12/2022) Kembali x Delilah
0.0.1 Unnamed (03/01/2024) Scout x Kirana
0.0.1 Unnamed (03/01/2024) Scout x Kirana
Aaaa
 
Zoofan15 said:
It would be nice to see a phase out of hybrids in the coming years. Sydney Zoo has three elderly hybrids and Dreamworld hasn’t bred hybrids in five years. Ballarat hold two young hybrids. Bearing in mind Dreamworld intend to scale back their holdings, that’s still at least 10 spaces between those three facilities that could be added to the Sumatran tiger breeding programme.

Dreamworld has only two white tigers, which I presume are their main crowd pullers. They could easily retain two (non-breeding) white tigers, with the remaining spaces dedicated to purebred Sumatran tigers. If they took the initiative to import from outside the region, they could likely be assured the breeding recommendations to continue producing cubs for the decade or so to follow.
Click to expand...

My thoughts as well!. It will be interesting to see what dreamworld does with tiger island not only on how they bring in protected contact into there tiger experience. But also on the conservation front. Of memory do they actually have hybrid tigers anymore? since 2017 IUCN has maintained that there are only two tiger subspecies in the sunda and mainland tigers. So only the tigers produced regionally that had the sumatran and bengal mixes would now be classed as hybrid.

Either way, they would only need to maintain 2 or possibly 3 white/mainland tigers. Then allocate the rest of the spaces to the sumatran tigers. Which bring a conservation angle that the others don't by being the last of the sundaes tiger and critically endangered.
 
Mixing the sumatran imported siblings with the Nioc and meta line was probably one of the biggest idiotic decisions we have seen a stud book make. There was absolutely no reason for it other then lazy stud book keeping. It is sad that for a species that really needs new genetics that we had the opportunity to create a new blood line and we decided to mix it with a very well established one. That also seems to globally be represented as well.
 
Tiger91 said:
My thoughts as well!. It will be interesting to see what dreamworld does with tiger island not only on how they bring in protected contact into there tiger experience. But also on the conservation front. Of memory do they actually have hybrid tigers anymore? since 2017 IUCN has maintained that there are only two tiger subspecies in the sunda and mainland tigers. So only the tigers produced regionally that had the sumatran and bengal mixes would now be classed as hybrid.

Either way, they would only need to maintain 2 or possibly 3 white/mainland tigers. Then allocate the rest of the spaces to the sumatran tigers. Which bring a conservation angle that the others don't by being the last of the sundaes tiger and critically endangered.
Click to expand...

Dreamworld have the following generic tigers:

1.0 Pi (19/07/2010) Hari x Louise
0.1 Kali (02/11/2015) Imported 2016
0.1 Kiko (02/11/2015) Imported 2016
0.1 Adira (29/11/2015) Raja x Nika
1.0 Javi (26/04/2019) Pi x Adira
1.0 Zakari (26/04/2019) Pi x Adira
1.0 Khan (25/05/2019) Raja x Nika

Even under the classification you refer to, they’re hybrids as all except for Kali and Kiko (white tigers) are descended from either Hari or Raja (purebred Sumatran tigers). Prior to siring several cubs to the hybrid Nika, Raja sired five purebred Sumatran cubs to Soraya at Dreamworld, two of which remain there to this day (Jaya and Shanti).
Tiger91 said:
Mixing the sumatran imported siblings with the Nioc and meta line was probably one of the biggest idiotic decisions we have seen a stud book make. There was absolutely no reason for it other then lazy stud book keeping. It is sad that for a species that really needs new genetics that we had the opportunity to create a new blood line and we decided to mix it with a very well established one. That also seems to globally be represented as well.
Click to expand...
It’s frustrating they didn’t take the opportunity to breed the Indonesian imports (Bashi, Kaitlyn and Maneki) with other founders.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen the following paired:

1.0 Bashi (2007) and 0.1 Binjai (2002)

1.0 Bashi (2007) and 0.1 Soraya (2002)

1.0 Tuan (1998) and 0.1 Kaitlyn (2007)

1.0 Raja (2003) and 0.1 Kaitlyn (2007)

1.0 Oz (2004) and 0.1 Maneki (2007)

That’s a total of five litters, which is what the Indonesian imports produced between them (four of which were sired by Nico/Meta descendants).

Imagine the uses for the cubs of those pairings!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top