Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population

[Zoofan15]

Sending Taronga's males over was actually a thought of mine when I learned the facility had two enclosures. With three younger males arriving, there's the opportunity to mix and match the gorillas into groups that they feel comfortable in. The addition of three males would also benefit the troop dynamics if Fataki and Fuzu were to be re-introduced, so this is something to be considered too. As is the case with any animal, fighting can increase with the lack of other animals in the social setting.

Fataki isn't a valuable male and unfortunately related to all of the regions females. He's still of a decent age, so could be moved overseas to be a silverback if that's deemed the best move for him going forward.

The death of Fikiri (2019-2023) rules out Kibale joining his sons in a bachelor troop as he’s the most genetically valuable male in the region and they’ll want at least one infant to carry on his line. With this in mind, integrating them with Fuzu would surely be a good move.

Fataki could definitely go overseas. His maternal grandmother (Mintha) is a wild born founder and poorly represented, so there may be a desire to breed from him. Frala’s daughters have bred poorly and only have one reproductively viable descendent between them.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Orana Gorilla Update

An update from my friend that Fataki (2003) and Fuzu (2007) have had to be separated due to ongoing conflict. I imagine this has stemmed from Mahali’s death, which reduced the troop to males.

I don’t have confirmation of Orana’s plans from here, but obviously it isn’t ideal to have two males living individually. From what I’ve heard, Fataki was the instigator of the conflict, so it could be best to integrate Fuzu with other bachelor males.

Personally, I think the best move from here is for Taronga’s males to be sent to Orana to form the following troop:

1.0 Fuzu (2007)
1.0 Mjukuu (2014)
1.0 Fabumi (2015)
1.0 Mwamba (2017)

Prior to this, they could look at options for sending Fataki elsewhere or potentially retain him on the assumption the above makes will remain cohesive long term. Orana can potentially manage two groupings long term.

Thanks for this! It's unfortunate that the conflict happened, but hopefully Orana will find a better solution for the gorillas going forward. Do you think there will ever be a breeding group at Orana?

 

[Zoofan15]

Thanks for this! It's unfortunate that the conflict happened, but hopefully Orana will find a better solution for the gorillas going forward. Do you think there will ever be a breeding group at Orana?

You’re welcome!

Honestly, probably not. They’re the only holder of this species in New Zealand, so it’s simpler for bachelor males to come here on a one way trip than breed them and then send them to Australia.

If Orana import Taronga’s three adolescent males to house with Fuzu, this could well see them through for the next 2-3 decades.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

You’re welcome!

Honestly, probably not. They’re the only holder of this species in New Zealand, so it’s simpler for bachelor males to come here on a one way trip than breed them and then send them to Australia.

If Orana import Taronga’s three adolescent males to house with Fuzu, this could well see them through for the next 2-3 decades.

Thanks for this. I did hear somewhere that before COVID, there was the possibility of bringing in another bachelor male from the Netherlands but that obviously fell through.

It would be a shame to lose Fataki, as I must admit I'm rather fond of him, but I do think combining Fuzu with other young bachelors would work. With Fataki and Fuzu both now being silverbacks, and Mahali no longer there to balance things, I suppose conflict was inevitable. Even when I was visiting Orana in 2018, Fuzu was showing signs of challenging Fataki, swooping in to take food that was intended for all 3 gorillas, for example and also teasing and winding up Fataki.

 

[Zoofan15]

Thanks for this. I did hear somewhere that before COVID, there was the possibility of bringing in another bachelor male from the Netherlands but that obviously fell through.

It would be a shame to lose Fataki, as I must admit I'm rather fond of him, but I do think combining Fuzu with other young bachelors would work. With Fataki and Fuzu both now being silverbacks, and Mahali no longer there to balance things, I suppose conflict was inevitable. Even when I was visiting Orana in 2018, Fuzu was showing signs of challenging Fataki, swooping in to take food that was intended for all 3 gorillas, for example and also teasing and winding up Fataki.

That would have been Nasibu (DOB 01/04/2007). It was reported on here that he was coming to Orana to head up a breeding troop. This would have tied in with plans to transfer Orana’s bachelor males to Sydney Zoo, which fell through.

Going forward, I anticipate most (if not all) male gorillas bred in Australasia to be accommodated within the region. Taronga’s Congo precinct (if proceeds as planned) will be an asset to the region; and long term, Mogo might even consider building a bachelor troop around Kaius.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

That would have been Nasibu (DOB 01/04/2007). It was reported on here that he was coming to Orana to head up a breeding troop. This would have tied in with plans to transfer Orana’s bachelor males to Sydney Zoo, which fell through.

Going forward, I anticipate most (if not all) male gorillas bred in Australasia to be accommodated within the region. Taronga’s Congo precinct (if proceeds as planned) will be an asset to the region; and long term, Mogo might even consider building a bachelor troop around Kaius.

It will be interesting to see how things develop with regards to gorillas in NZ. Orana certainly has a good exhibit for them and it's not being optimally used for just two gorillas, and two silverbacks who now have to be separately housed at that. It's also a pity that they're not also going to look into other great ape species - there are no bonobos anywhere in Australasia, for example, and I think they would definitely be an asset.

 

[Zoofan15]

It will be interesting to see how things develop with regards to gorillas in NZ. Orana certainly has a good exhibit for them and it's not being optimally used for just two gorillas, and two silverbacks who now have to be separately housed at that. It's also a pity that they're not also going to look into other great ape species - there are no bonobos anywhere in Australasia, for example, and I think they would definitely be an asset.

I’d love to see Bonobo and think they’d be perfect for city zoos, which have for the most part phased out the Common chimpanzee (which we know fares better in communities). Even a couple of zoos holding a pair each could be useful in growing a regional population long term. It’s natural to assume species need multiple holders, but multiple species only have one or two.

It does make sense though for NZ bound gorillas to come on a one way stop, so I firmly believe a bachelor troop will be Orana’s future.

 

[marmolady]

I’d love to see Bonobo and think they’d be perfect for city zoos, which have for the most part phased out the Common chimpanzee (which we know fares better in communities). Even a couple of zoos holding a pair each could be useful in growing a regional population long term. It’s natural to assume species need multiple holders, but multiple have one or two.

Bonobo fare better in communities just as chimpanzees do; housing them in pairs is taking a drastic backwards step in our husbandry of the species. The EEP recommends new holders build for a minimum of ten individuals, including multiple males and females. I would be stunned if either the SSP or EEP considered it acceptable to send bonobos to Australasia in pairs.

 

[Jambo]

Bonobo fare better in communities just as chimpanzees do; housing them in pairs is taking a drastic backwards step in our husbandry of the species. The EEP recommends new holders build for a minimum of ten individuals, including multiple males and females. I would be stunned if either the SSP or EEP considered it acceptable to send bonobos to Australasia in pairs.

Considering the small EEP and SSP populations as they are I'd also be surprised if they decided to offload individuals all the way to Australia and have another holder here.

Taking ten or so individuals out of either population is a fair chunk and at the moment they don't have enough flexibility to do that.

 

[Zoofan15]

Bonobo fare better in communities just as chimpanzees do; housing them in pairs is taking a drastic backwards step in our husbandry of the species. The EEP recommends new holders build for a minimum of ten individuals, including multiple males and females. I would be stunned if either the SSP or EEP considered it acceptable to send bonobos to Australasia in pairs.

That pretty much makes Bonobo a non-starter then. Their availability aside, no Common chimpanzee holder in the region is gonna phase them out for Bonobo when they’ll do little to attract the general public. We’d all be delighted to have them here, but we’re kidding ourselves if we think the general public would be any more enamoured with them than a Common chimpanzee.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

I’d love to see Bonobo and think they’d be perfect for city zoos, which have for the most part phased out the Common chimpanzee (which we know fares better in communities). Even a couple of zoos holding a pair each could be useful in growing a regional population long term. It’s natural to assume species need multiple holders, but multiple species only have one or two.

It does make sense though for NZ bound gorillas to come on a one way stop, so I firmly believe a bachelor troop will be Orana’s future.

I too would love to see Bonobo - since Auckland is now a themed zoo (Asian and Southern Hemisphere wildlife only) the most suitable holder for this species probably would be Orana, given that Hamilton and Wellington seem to have thriving Common Chimpanzee troops, complete with infants.

It will be interesting to see how Orana deals with the gorillas going forward, as the current arrangement would not be sustainable long-term, and what their timeframe might be like should they decide to establish another bachelor group.

 

[Jambo]

It will be interesting to see how Orana deals with the gorillas going forward, as the current arrangement would not be sustainable long-term, and what their timeframe might be like should they decide to establish another bachelor group.

If they elect to acquire Taronga's young males, this would be within the next year or two as the males are approaching age to move out of their maternal group.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

If they elect to acquire Taronga's young males, this would be within the next year or two as the males are approaching age to move out of their maternal group.

It would definitely be best, in my opinion, for Orana to move forward as you've said here. Although it would, sadly, most likely mean sending Fataki elsewhere as Fuzu would probably be easier to integrate with younger males.

 

[Zoofan15]

I too would love to see Bonobo - since Auckland is now a themed zoo (Asian and Southern Hemisphere wildlife only) the most suitable holder for this species probably would be Orana, given that Hamilton and Wellington seem to have thriving Common Chimpanzee troops, complete with infants.

It will be interesting to see how Orana deals with the gorillas going forward, as the current arrangement would not be sustainable long-term, and what their timeframe might be like should they decide to establish another bachelor group.

If they elect to acquire Taronga's young males, this would be within the next year or two as the males are approaching age to move out of their maternal group.

It would definitely be best, in my opinion, for Orana to move forward as you've said here. Although it would, sadly, most likely mean sending Fataki elsewhere as Fuzu would probably be easier to integrate with younger males.

Mjuuku (2014) and Fabumi (2015) are at the dispersal age now, but ideally they would wait until Mwamba (2017) is seven and can join them. I’ve always believed Fuzu (2007) is the best choice for heading up a bachelor troop at Orana with these males as he’s younger and a bachelor troop under Fataki (2003) has fallen apart.

As I mentioned previously, Fataki would likely go elsewhere first as there’s no guarantees the newly formed bachelor troop will remain cohesive long term; though that would be the goal.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Mjuuku (2014) and Fabumi (2015) are at the dispersal age now, but ideally they would wait until Mwamba (2017) is seven and can join them. I’ve always believed Fuzu (2007) is the best choice for heading up a bachelor troop at Orana with these males as he’s younger and a bachelor troop under Fataki (2003) has fallen apart.

As I mentioned previously, Fataki would likely go elsewhere first as there’s no guarantees the newly formed bachelor troop will remain cohesive long term; though that would be the goal.

Sounds like the scenario you've outlined here would be for the best, @Zoofan15 and @Jambo . And it will be interesting to see if Orana do decide to hold only gorillas or diversify into holding another great ape species.

 

[Zoofan15]

Sounds like the scenario you've outlined here would be for the best, @Zoofan15 and @Jambo . And it will be interesting to see if Orana do decide to hold only gorillas or diversify into holding another great ape species.

Although gorillas have more prestige and I see no reason Orana Wildlife Park would deviate from them (they often promote themselves as holding the only gorillas in the country); I will hypothetically comment how great it would have been if they’d acquired chimpanzees instead. With two large paddocks, they’d have been perfectly placed to manage a community of chimpanzees enabling fission fusion as the apes go about their day.

 

[Jambo]

Although gorillas have more prestige and I see no reason Orana Wildlife Park would deviate from them (they often promote themselves as holding the only gorillas in the country); I will hypothetically comment how great it would have been if they’d acquired chimpanzees instead. With two large paddocks, they’d have been perfectly placed to manage a community of chimpanzees enabling fission fusion as the apes go about their day.

In saying that Orana as a bachelor facility is very valuable to the regional breeding program for the gorillas, so I'm glad that they do have two exhibits which would be very handy going forward when they may need to hold a larger number of bachelor males.

 

[Zoofan15]

In saying that Orana as a bachelor facility is very valuable to the regional breeding program for the gorillas, so I'm glad that they do have two exhibits which would be very handy going forward when they may need to hold a larger number of bachelor males.

With Taronga’s Congo precinct up in the air, so too is the chances of them being able to accomodate their three adolescent males long term as had been assumed. Add in Adelaide’s decision to remove gorillas from the masterplan and an increase in bachelor holdings is certainly needed.

It’d be nice if Taronga Western Plains Zoo or Australia Zoo were to come onboard with the gorilla breeding programme. Due to the challenges around placing males, breeding is intermittent in the region, which presents other issues - young females like Kanzi not observing the raising of young; silverbacks like Otana not having sons to transfer out with.

 

[ApeLadyNZ]

Although gorillas have more prestige and I see no reason Orana Wildlife Park would deviate from them (they often promote themselves as holding the only gorillas in the country); I will hypothetically comment how great it would have been if they’d acquired chimpanzees instead. With two large paddocks, they’d have been perfectly placed to manage a community of chimpanzees enabling fission fusion as the apes go about their day.

That's interesting, @Zoofan15 ! The Orana environment would have made a good one for chimpanzees.

 

[Zoofan15]

That's interesting, @Zoofan15 ! The Orana environment would have made a good one for chimpanzees.

100%. I recall hearing how in the early 2000’s, Wellington’s female chimpanzees preferred to relax in the night house in the afternoon, while the males preferred to be on exhibit. What this said to me is the outdoor exhibit was the preferred space and the females took the night house to get some time away from the males. The troop was very male heavy and the zoo addressed both these problems by decreasing the number of males and the construction of a multilevel night house.

Orana’s complex would have allowed individuals time way from each other; as well as coming together, as is the natural social order.