Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population

[Zoofan15]

Massive news re the gorilla transfer. I'm presuming opportunities for import have been exhausted, and if that is the case, then I think it's the right call - albeit I'm a little saddened that Kibale's troop is being broken up. While it's not out of the question for Taronga to resume holding a breeding troop in the future, it is the end of an era for now.

From Jambo's information, it sounds like Johari is being transferred to Melbourne - although I agree with other posters that it's still a possibility that Mbeli and Frala are going to Melbourne, which would likely necessitate Johari's transfer to Mogo, because that seems to make a lot of sense. Leaving Taronga with the males, plus one female, doesn't seem like a viable solution, and Mogo seems like a likely destination for the remaining female.

A reason why not could be if Frala is no longer cycling (or there is generally doubt around her reproductive health) and therefore it is feared that Otana wouldn't accept her as a post-reproductive female. I don't know whether or not this would be a genuine concern. There's a risk in transferring Johari to Melbourne, although she would likely be reuniting with some keepers who would have knowledge about how to work with her effectively - from speaking with someone who has worked with her at Taronga, she's a fairly different personality.

If Johari did transfer to Mogo, I agree there is a greater capacity she could breed. I would be concerned whether or not that is merely repeating the cycle (while it's wonderful Kaius is alive, it's yet to be determined how 'socially normal' he will be as an adult in terms of breeding), although I understand most of the reason she hasn't bred is because she finds silverback attention overwhelming due to her handraised background. Taking her off contraception to get her pregnant (at Mogo or Melbourne) may simply not be worth the risk.

Certainly interesting times for the region's gorilla population. I await to see what will happen and I trust the zoos will keep us informed when the transfers take place.

My assessment is that overseas imports may happen in the future (even if it’s in 10-15 years time), but the region had two pressing issues that needed to be addressed (the adolescent males in Taronga’s troop needing to transfer out; and Melbourne’s troop reduced to a single female) and this was the most effective way to address both issues within a matter of months.

I would further suggest there’s no females currently available for import right here and now, otherwise there’s no reason Melbourne (and Taronga) couldn’t have already been working towards such a goal. Melbourne’s troop has lacked structure at least since Yuska died, even if Kimya’s death did take things to a critical level.

That’s a good point regarding Frala, who at 44 years old, is well past her prime. Dispersal age begins from eight years in this species, so she’s far from the typical immigrant into a new troop. However, Johari being on contraception was indeed to lessen the interest of the silverback in her. Unless they plan to throw her in at the deep end immediately upon her arrival (which seems unlikely), it appears she’d be joining Otana’s troop as a non-cycling female and therefore no more or less desirable than a post reproductive female (which Frala may or may not be).

Melbourne will also need to be aware of a honeymoon period that often follows great ape introductions. It appears this was the case of Julia and G-Anne, who were initially tolerated by Otana; but later rejected (in Julia’s case, the stress of a new infant in the troop was attributed to Otana’s intolerance reaching breaking point). Mbeli breeding in a year, two years could flare up tensions between Otana/Johari.

 

[Jambo]

Massive news re the gorilla transfer. I'm presuming opportunities for import have been exhausted, and if that is the case, then I think it's the right call - albeit I'm a little saddened that Kibale's troop is being broken up. While it's not out of the question for Taronga to resume holding a breeding troop in the future, it is the end of an era for now.

From Jambo's information, it sounds like Johari is being transferred to Melbourne - although I agree with other posters that it's still a possibility that Mbeli and Frala are going to Melbourne, which would likely necessitate Johari's transfer to Mogo, because that seems to make a lot of sense. Leaving Taronga with the males, plus one female, doesn't seem like a viable solution, and Mogo seems like a likely destination for the remaining female.

A reason why not could be if Frala is no longer cycling (or there is generally doubt around her reproductive health) and therefore it is feared that Otana wouldn't accept her as a post-reproductive female. I don't know whether or not this would be a genuine concern. There's a risk in transferring Johari to Melbourne, although she would likely be reuniting with some keepers who would have knowledge about how to work with her effectively - from speaking with someone who has worked with her at Taronga, she's a fairly different personality.

If Johari did transfer to Mogo, I agree there is a greater capacity she could breed. I would be concerned whether or not that is merely repeating the cycle (while it's wonderful Kaius is alive, it's yet to be determined how 'socially normal' he will be as an adult in terms of breeding), although I understand most of the reason she hasn't bred is because she finds silverback attention overwhelming due to her handraised background. Taking her off contraception to get her pregnant (at Mogo or Melbourne) may simply not be worth the risk.

Certainly interesting times for the region's gorilla population. I await to see what will happen and I trust the zoos will keep us informed when the transfers take place.

I don't think opportunities for import have been exhausted so to speak - but the biggest issue that needed resolving was Taronga's troop. It's obvious they had hoped the Congo complex would be completed now which would have allowed them to accommodate both a breeding troop and a bachelor troop. Now that has been scrapped, they're stuck in a situation where they really only had one option - to disband the girls and retain Kibali with his sons. It seems Kimya's passing opened up a perfect opportunity to carry this out.

That's a really good point to consider re. Frala. Since Otana has struggled to accept non cycling females in the past, the best option here might be Johari. I don't think it's a coincidence Otana wanted ousted Julia and G Ann, yet continued to accept Yuska, who whilst was the more socially competent of the trio was also still cycling up until her final years.

Not only will Johari be reuniting with former keepers and her birthplace, but so will Mbeli who many forget had a short stint at Melbourne from 2010 to 2013 where the hope was she would breed with Rigo. She developed a close relationship with Johari during this time and the decision was made to send both girls to Taronga together, in a swap for the more reserved Kimya.

I doubt Johari will be allowed to breed - realistically the only chance she might get is at Melbourne, to allow Otana to accept her into the troop if she is cycling. Then as @Zoofan15 has stated it would be sink or swim for an infant in the event she conceives. She's witnessed all births at Taronga, so there's hope she'll raise an infant well. Worst case, Mbeli could adopt the infant if she conceives around the same time. But I think we ascertain that the first step is Johari getting in a comfortable enough position where she would allow Otana to mate her!

Also yes - I was recommended to keep an eye on socials. They could arrive in a matter of weeks.

 

[Pertinax]

I doubt Johari will be allowed to breed - realistically the only chance she might get is at Melbourne, to allow Otana to accept her into the troop if she is cycling. Then as @Zoofan15 has stated it would be sink or swim for an infant in the event she conceives. She's witnessed all births at Taronga, so there's hope she'll raise an infant well. Worst case, Mbeli could adopt the infant if she conceives around the same time. But I think we ascertain that the first step is Johari getting in a comfortable enough position where she would allow Otana to mate her!

Don't forget that some females, even handraised ones, have been known to successfully raise their own infants, even first ones, without any 'education' by watching other females rearing babies. It can (or used to happen more) with individual females back in the 'bad old days' of single pairs. These days though there is, I know, much accent on the 'education by example' method of husbandry. But if she hasn't mated with any of the younger males at Taronga either- if they were ever together?- then I'm not too hopeful of any success with a (different) silverback. She would perhaps then be a candidate for AI, achieved so rarely in gorillas after Melbourne's original success.

 

[Pertinax]

The volunteer also said there was a big focus on Kanzi being able to witness the raising of a gorilla infant which will be important in the event she does transfer out of the group to breed. The volunteer confirmed however that she will remain for the meantime.

.

There is a big trend on this nowadays obviously, the theory being that young females should witness rearing of young by older experienced females before having their own. Breeding recommendations are often even staggered nowadays to allow this to happen. Apart from what I said above, I still believe though that the more important 'education' factor- if there is one- is the ability of a young female not to merely observe, but to actually (in play situations) handle and carry the offspring of another female, though this can often be restricted to gorillas with familial ties and not allowed by 'strangers'. The tactile experience so gained is what I think more prepares a young female for holding her own baby, but even this has proved not always to be essential.

 

[Zoofan15]

Don't forget that some females, even handraised ones, have been known to successfully raise their own infants, even first ones, without any 'education' by watching other females rearing babies. It can (or used to happen more) with individual females back in the 'bad old days' of single pairs. These days though there is, I know, much accent on the 'education by example' method of husbandry. But if she hasn't mated with any of the younger males at Taronga-if they were ever together?- I'm not too hopeful of any success with a silverback. She would perhaps be a candidate for AI, achieved so rarely in gorillas after Melbourne's original success.

Johari came to Taronga Zoo as a 13 year old in 2013, having never witnessed an infant being raised (she was peer raised with her two half brothers).

Since being at Taronga Zoo, she’s observed the births of 3.1 infants between 2014-2019. The three young males remain on exhibit with her to this day, but no mating between them has ever been observed. Johari showed curiosity in the gorillas born into the troop when they were infants/juveniles, but was actively avoiding all gorillas on my visits last year. She’s behaved this way towards the silverback since the beginning.

I’ve heard from a few sources that there’s a critical learning period that close around 12 years. I agree with you that females do have some instinct around the rearing of infants. Kipenzi at Mogo is competently rearing her second infant without issue, despite her limited experience.

 

[Pertinax]

I think there's a 50/50 if Johari was to ever conceive as to her rearing ability but I suppose that's an obvious statement in a way. I fear she will not allow any silverback near her though, particularly if she has never mated with any of those younger Taronga males, which is how some desocialised females have become pregnant if they are afraid of the silverback in their group.

 

[Pertinax]

. Kipenzi at Mogo is competently rearing her second infant without issue, despite her limited experience.

I think she would very probably have reared her firstborn Kaius too if she hadn't had a traumatic birth experience.

 

[Pertinax]

This shake up of the Australian gorillas sounds a good one. They badly needed to do something and this plan of forthcoming moves sounds like a sensible option.

 

[Zoofan15]

I think there's a 50/50 if Johari was to ever conceive as to her rearing ability but I suppose that's an obvious statement in a way. I fear she will not allow any silverback near her though, particularly if she has never mated with any of those younger Taronga males, which is how some desocialised females have become pregnant if they are afraid of the silverback in their group.

Kibale has been a model silverback, so Johari has had the best opportunity to mate naturally. She was put on contraception early on and never taken back off; but from what I saw on my visits last year, nothing had changed in her behaviour to give confidence it would be successful a decade on.

The design of the exhibit would potentially afford the young males countless opportunities to sneak matings with the females, so again, there’s been opportunities hear for Johari to mate with the young males via play.

I think she would very probably have reared her firstborn Kaius too if she hadn't had a traumatic birth experience.

I agree. I’ve known of at least two chimpanzees in the region that each rejected their respective infants due to complications at the birth. Both had previously reared offspring well; and both went on to rear subsequent offspring. Not gorillas, but great apes nonetheless!

 

[Jambo]

I think there's a 50/50 if Johari was to ever conceive as to her rearing ability but I suppose that's an obvious statement in a way. I fear she will not allow any silverback near her though, particularly if she has never mated with any of those younger Taronga males, which is how some desocialised females have become pregnant if they are afraid of the silverback in their group.

I think she's been on contraception, so she wouldn't have had the opportunity to conceive to one of the younger males. Still, it appears she actively avoids the younger males too. I've only ever seen her interact with Kibali on one occasion and the other girls. She hung around Mbeli a bit, although she obviously wasn't as close as she perhaps once was.

 

[Jambo]

This shake up of the Australian gorillas sounds a good one. They badly needed to do something and this plan of forthcoming moves sounds like a sensible option.

It's really a decision that should have been made a while ago. Melbourne especially has needed additional gorillas following their troops reduction to just four in 2016 (including an infant).

 

[Zoofan15]

This shake up of the Australian gorillas sounds a good one. They badly needed to do something and this plan of forthcoming moves sounds like a sensible option.

New females for Melbourne’s troop are long overdue. I really hope they get Frala (a mother raised female) since throughout the decades, they’ve faced so many challenges with hand raised gorillas.

It’s exciting for Mogo Zoo too, gaining a new female gorilla. Either Frala or Johari would surely assimilate well into their troop. It’d be interesting to see Frala and Kriba’s reaction to each other given they were born and grew up at the same facility and were both females in the Kibabu troop for many years.

 

[Zoofan15]

I think she's been on contraception, so she wouldn't have had the opportunity to conceive to one of the younger males. Still, it appears she actively avoids the younger males too. I've only ever seen her interact with Kibali on one occasion and the other girls. She hung around Mbeli a bit, although she obviously wasn't as close as she perhaps once was.

Johari has been on contraception since 2015. She initially had the opportunity to conceive when joining the Kibale troop; but while Mbeli and Frala conceived within weeks of their introduction to Kibale, Johari did not and became stressed by Kibale’s pursuit of her. There was concern her repeated refusal to mate with him could lead to aggression, so it was the best thing for her to go on contraception.

Mbeli and Johari’s relationship deteriorated soon after they came to Taronga. Kibale entered the mix and Mbeli became devoted to him for want of a better word.

 

[Pertinax]

It’s exciting for Mogo Zoo too, gaining a new female gorilla. Either Frala or Johari would surely assimilate well into their troop. It’d be interesting to see Frala and Kriba’s reaction to each other given they were born and grew up at the same facility and were both females in the Kibabu troop for many years.

Yes, either of them would seem to fit into Mogo's group, particularly as both of them already 'know' an existing female there and they certainly have long memories. On balance I think I would send Johari as Otana at Melbourne has a risky past record doesn't he, though he is older and probably much calmer these days. Difficult to decide really so will be interesting to see what transpires.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes, either of them would seem to fit into Mogo's group, particularly as both of them already 'know' an existing female there and they certainly have long memories. On balance I think I would send Johari as Otana at Melbourne has a poor past record doesn't he, though he is older and probably much calmer these days. Difficult to decide really so will be interesting to see what transpires.

Fullly agree. Otana fatally injured Julia (Johari’s mother) and evicted G-Anne from the troop. While it’s possible this was down to his inexperience, plenty of young males (including Kisane at Mogo) have exercised tolerance to socially deficient females.

Johari and G-Anne would surely be happy to occupy a place in Mogo’s troop on the periphery; with Kriba, Kipenzi and the infants forming the central clique.

 

[Jambo]

Yes, either of them would seem to fit into Mogo's group, particularly as both of them already 'know' an existing female there and they certainly have long memories. On balance I think I would send Johari as Otana at Melbourne has a poor past record doesn't he, though he is older and probably much calmer these days. Difficult to decide really so will be interesting to see what transpires.

Although I'd like to believe Otana is 'calmer' it doesn't seem so.

The barricade that's been in place in front of the viewing window is still there - and that was supposed to be only a 'temporary solution' whilst Kanzi was young. She's now fully grown. They've also recently put a camouflage netting on the lower half of said viewing window. And I also noticed during my visit yesterday that the second, smaller viewing window has also now been closed off.

So whilst keepers claimed his previous actions were likely due to his protective nature of Kanzi - it's interesting to say the least that the tendencies are still being displayed now that she is matured, likely ruling out that as a specific reason.

To me honestly after visiting Otana all these years - it just seems he doesn't cope well with stress. Whether that's from guests or gorillas within his own troop. It'll be interesting to see how these introductions go - but I hold a lot of hope. Whichever two females it ends up being will have each other for support.

 

[Jambo]

Mbeli and Johari’s relationship deteriorated soon after they came to Taronga. Kibale entered the mix and Mbeli became devoted to him for want of a better word.

As is the case with any adult female. As we've seen females fight and bicker constantly over everything, including power and this can only be achieved by being the silverback's favourite. So the females will end up doing anything and everything they can to achieve and maintain that status. For Mbeli, she wouldn't have much choice but to instead devote most of her time to Kibali and also raising her sons.

 

[Zoofan15]

As is the case with any adult female. As we've seen females fight and bicker constantly over everything, including power and this can only be achieved by being the silverback's favourite. So the females will end up doing anything and everything they can to achieve and maintain that status. For Mbeli, she wouldn't have much choice but to instead devote most of her time to Kibali and also raising her sons.

The most amicable relationship I’ve known in the region between two females was Mouila and Kriba in Kibabu’s troop. They had a strong bond from being mother and daughter and established different roles in the troop. Mouila was Kibabu’s favourite female; but it was Kriba who assumed the role of his second in command during times of perceived threat, patrolling the exhibit. They actively worked to protect each other when they had young infants and were more vulnerable to the antics of Frala and her sons.

The only downside of this relationship was that Frala and her family were firmly on the periphery.

 

[Zoofan15]

Although I'd like to believe Otana is 'calmer' it doesn't seem so.

The barricade that's been in place in front of the viewing window is still there - and that was supposed to be only a 'temporary solution' whilst Kanzi was young. She's now fully grown. They've also recently put a camouflage netting on the lower half of said viewing window. And I also noticed during my visit yesterday that the second, smaller viewing window has also now been closed off.

So whilst keepers claimed his previous actions were likely due to his protective nature of Kanzi - it's interesting to say the least that the tendencies are still being displayed now that she is matured, likely ruling out that as a specific reason.

To me honestly after visiting Otana all these years - it just seems he doesn't cope well with stress. Whether that's from guests or gorillas within his own troop. It'll be interesting to see how these introductions go - but I hold a lot of hope. Whichever two females it ends up being will have each other for support.

Unfortunately with Otana having no sons to transition into a bachelor troop with, the region has no alternative at this point other than to ride him out as silverback. Providing him with mother raised females would ensure the best chance of success, but Mbeli will hopefully bring some stability to the troop irregardless od what female accompanies her. She’s socially savvy and would surely make the move with the same ease her mother did to Kibabu’s troop.

Frala is not a social gorilla, so I’d expect Mbeli to establish herself as Otana’s favourite from early on, especially if/when she breeds.

 

[Zorro]

It's really a decision that should have been made a while ago. Melbourne especially has needed additional gorillas following their troops reduction to just four in 2016 (including an infant).

It appears very obvious something should have been done a lot sooner the questions is why was this left to get to this stage?