Ah right. I kind of assumed she had been with Otana before but was confusing her with mother Julia and the sad outcome there. But given she(Jahari) has shown a reluctance to be close to the silverback at Taronga, presumably that is the concern for her at Melbourne too though it sounds that she is not perhaps as badly desocialised as her mother was? If she is on contraception to prevent risk of upsets then there is no chance she could breed obviously. Not that relevant here but I have heard of two instances of a desocialised and unwilling female being trapped in a corner by a male when she was in oestrus and mating occurred that resulted in a pregnancy- one was successful and one ended in a miscarriage. Both times I was told it only happened the one time and that the female didn't allow it to happen again!
Australasian Western Lowland Gorilla Population
- Thread starter Zoofan15
- Start date
Ah right. I kind of assumed she had been with Otana before but was confusing her with mother Julia and the sad outcome there. But given she(Jahari) has shown a reluctance to be close to the silverback at Taronga, presumably that is the concern for her at Melbourne too though it sounds that she is not perhaps as badly desocialised as her mother was? If she is on contraception to prevent risk of upsets then there is no chance she could breed obviously. Not that relevant here but I have heard of two instances of a desocialised and unwilling female being trapped in a corner by a male when she was in oestrus and mating occurred that resulted in a pregnancy- one was successful and one ended in a miscarriage. Both times I was told it only happened the one time and that the female didn't allow it to happen again!
Julia was very poorly socialised. In addition to her handraised background, she spent time as a juvenile with a chimpanzee which added a number of chimpanzee behaviours to her behavioural repertoire. Most problematic was her inability to read the room. She antagonised senior females like Nandi in the Jersey troop (though they were mostly tolerant, even supportive of her) and her ignorance of Otana’s cues to give Kimya (and the newborn Kanzi) space contributed to Otana’s fatal attack on her in 2015.
It’s my assumption Johari will remain on contraception for the foreseeable. Depending on how integrated she is in the troop in a year or two, it might be worth considering taking her off contraception; but there’s little justification for doing so at this point.
It's probably important to note that Kibali would've been the first time Johari had a silverback who would've showed interest in her. Although she did grow up in a troop with Motaba, who did mate the females, the majority of her crucial learning period leading into her early teens was spent in a troop with Rigo who unfortunately barely mated (if at all). So it's possible that the lack of experience in that regard made her uncomfortable by his advances.
When I visited a few weeks ago, Johari and Mbeli were sleeping together, which was nice to see. Hopefully they can sort of re-establish the bond they once had now that they're back at Melbourne, although I acknowledge this was prior to Otana being added into the mix, and Mbeli's attention has seemed to turn fully onto him.
I’ll be interested to see how quickly Mbeli is taken off contraception and given the opportunity to breed with Otana. It would be beneficial for Kanzi to observe maternal care of an infant; though as soon as Mbeli produces an infant, things will surely take the same trajectory they did at Taronga with regards to her and Johari. In the meantime, I hope they can support each other while they assimilate into Otana’s troop.
If Mbeli is to be the only breeding female, I would anticipate that will influence breeding recommendations. Having sons would enable Otana to make a seamless transition into a bachelor troop, so with that in mind, I’d anticipate Mbeli producing a son to lead to her breeding again at a natural birth interval. Conversely, if she produces a female, they’d likely opt for a long birth interval. Otana is in his mid-20’s now and they may simply decide to let him remain as head of a breeding troop for his remaining years (statistically likely to be around 15 years).
That’s an encouraging sign that they’ve already began bonding. Mbeli is a text book example of a female gorilla behaviour wise, so it comes as no surprise. I predicted from the beginning she would become Otana’s favourite female.
Otana and Mbeli will hopefully welcome Melbourne’s first infant in over a decade in the coming years.
Exciting news indeed. If Mbeli is off contraception, the earliest we can expect an infant is May of next year. Wherebaouts did you see the video?
Whilst attempting to search for the video in question, I stumbled across a brief video too of the new gorillas, sitting all together at the front of the exhibit. Frala, Johari and Mbeli sitting near each other with Otana patrolling nearby and Kanzi sitting a decent distance away (but still in close proximity).
Mbeli would have been on contraception at Taronga Zoo. I believe they use the MGA implant, which is recommended for replacement every 2 years, but can potentially be effective for up to 5 years. It can be removed (which is the recommendation if pregnancy is desired), so hopefully that was the case when Mbeli underwent her health check upon arrival.
There may be a desire to allow the troop to settle before adding to Otana’s pressures with an infant; but that would be eight months away even if she conceived immediately and it would be beneficial for Kanzi (who turns 11 in January) to observe maternal care sooner rather than later.
I think it was on facebook on one of the gorilla sites. It was a very short video with nothing happening but the words 'post-coital' were definately mentioned.
Yes, it also often takes some time for the effects of contraception to wear off. But mating as a form of bonding after an initial introduction is quite common, the record time I know of was about one hour after the introduction!
I’m hopeful they’ve removed the implant as it would have been in less than two years. The recommendation is to renew it every 24 months and they certainly didn’t want her to breed with Kibale while still at Taronga.
The MGA implant can potentially work for up to five years, so it could be a lengthy wait otherwise.
It’d be interesting to know what form of contraception Frala was on prior to joining Kibale’s troop in 2014. She was isolated with her sons, so was clearly on contraception, but conceived soon after transitioning into Kibale’s troop. Contraceptive pills would have been easier to administer in a group of 2.1 than when she was in Kibabu’s troop; but I suspect it was a successful example of a female conceiving once the implant was removed.
Melbourne Zoo update:
A small update from Melbourne Zoo’s socials in celebration of World Gorilla Day:
We are super happy that Melbourne Zoo’s new blended gorilla family have been getting to know each other, with chemistry flying and new bonds forming.
Our party of five is made up of silverback male Otana (24 years old), and four females; Kanzi (10), Frala (44), Johari (25) and Mbeli (22).
The patchwork troop have spent these early days on habitat pairing off and tentatively forming bonds, with Otana puffing himself up to impress the ladies (and immediately bonding with an eager Mbeli) and little Kanzi following Frala wherever she went, mirroring her movements and sharing food.
A small update from Melbourne Zoo’s socials in celebration of World Gorilla Day:
We are super happy that Melbourne Zoo’s new blended gorilla family have been getting to know each other, with chemistry flying and new bonds forming.
Our party of five is made up of silverback male Otana (24 years old), and four females; Kanzi (10), Frala (44), Johari (25) and Mbeli (22).
The patchwork troop have spent these early days on habitat pairing off and tentatively forming bonds, with Otana puffing himself up to impress the ladies (and immediately bonding with an eager Mbeli) and little Kanzi following Frala wherever she went, mirroring her movements and sharing food.
It shows how much Kanzi was lacking the company of other females...
Without a doubt. She was born into a troop of 1.4 adults, but would have no memory of Julia and G-Anne. She clearly enjoyed Yuska’s companionship and the death of both Yuska and her mother would have both been keenly felt by the adolescent female.
Given her age, I’d expect Kanzi to well and truly be cycling by now; but from reports, it doesn’t sound like Otana regards her as one of his females. Kibabu was noted to have begun showing interest in his daughter Shinda, who was exported at Kanzi’s current age, so it’ll be interesting to see how their relationship develops over the next couple of years. For now at least, it sounds like Mbeli has no competition for the role of Otana’s favourite female.
I remember Otana and Kimya were quite close initially, especially in the years following Kanzi's birth, but as time went on they seemed to 'drift apart'. I wonder whether Kimya not breeding again had a part in that.
On the other hand, I saw him interacting with Kanzi on the rare occasion (or more so, her seeking attention from him). Yuska also didn't see to mind Otana's presence that much too, but was also quick to move off when given the signal to.
So with that, it's really good to see him interacting with Mbeli. Hopefully he's also doing the same with the other two girls.
I did notice prior to the new girls arrival that Kanzi was spending a lot of time away from Otana, and she seems to have inherited her mother's habit of holding her hand to her ear, a behaviour I'd never seen from Kanzi until this year. She'd surely be glad the new females have arrived for company.
Silverbacks are highly protective of their females when they have infants, so I’d agree Otana’s closeness to Kimya was influenced by the birth of Kanzi and therefore diminished as she grew into a juvenile. Had Kimya given birth again, it would have surely brought them back together again. It’s fair to say Frala was the least favourite of Kibabu’s three females, but it was noted that following the birth of Fuzu in 2007, he was very protective of her and ensured she had space from the others.
It’s encouraging that Otana tolerates Johari at this point. They’ll likely never be close, but clearly they’re all coexisting without issue. I don’t anticipate there’d be the same issue of Johari not giving Mbeli and her new infant space when the time comes as she actively avoids males. If Otana is sitting with Mbeli and her new infant, Johari will probably be found over the other side of the exhibit.
The hands on ears trait seems to run strong in Kanzi’s maternal line. Kijivu at Prague does it too (apparently when she’s upset). Kriba was a fractious female, so her daughters may have inherited it from her.
ApeLadyNZ
Well-Known Member
Perhaps because of certain behaviours, or her closeness to the older females, or some other reason, Otana may still regard Kanzi as a juvenile and treat her accordingly. Similar to how Auckland Zoo's Bornean orangutan adult male, Charlie, regarded new female Daya when she transferred over from the Netherlands at the age of 11. He showed curiosity about her initially due to her novelty, but then mainly seemed to leave her to the company of Melur and little Bahmi. At the time, Daya still looked very young, but now she more strongly resembles an adult female and has been taken off contraception, and Charlie is showing a lot more interest in her.
Is it known if Kanzi is on contraception or not?
Kanzi is 10 years old, so would definitely be on contraception. Females have given birth as young as seven years (e.g. Mouila, who gave birth to Kriba in 1979), so they wouldn’t want to risk her breeding with her sire.
I agree it sounds like Otana sees her as a juvenile still. Contraception can lessen interest in some cases (as was the case for Kibale/Johari), but it depends on the form on contraception used. I assume Kanzi is on the implant as there’s no intention to breed from her for several years.
Long term, I anticipate Kanzi will transfer to Mogo. Possibly not until Kriba/G-Anne (both aged 46 years) have died.
Zoos Victoria have posted a beautiful video today of Mbeli and Kanzi. It seems they've formed such a great bond already.
Zoos Victoria on Instagram: "Sunday snugs Who’s hanging with a friend this weekend like Melbourne Zoo’s Kanzi and Mbele? #Gorllia #SundayMood #MelbourneZoo"
Zoos Victoria on Instagram: "Sunday snugs Who’s hanging with a friend this weekend like Melbourne Zoo’s Kanzi and Mbele? #Gorllia #SundayMood #MelbourneZoo"
I was really encouraged to see this as aside from Otana and Johari, it was the bond I was least expecting to see between the newly formed troop. Mbeli has already made significant strides in positioning herself as Otana’s favourite female, so Kanzi forming a bond with the lower ranking females seemed a more inevitable progression. As we said, her formative years spent with Yuska may have influenced the initial gravitation towards Frala we all observed.
Long term, it’s reasonable to assume Kanzi will fully transition into a position within the troop where Otana regards her as one of her females rather than his offspring. Kibabu at Taronga was demonstrating strong interest in his daughters by his age. The contraception method used will also influence the level of interest the silverback shows in the females.