Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
Burma (Taronga)
Burma -> Petra Prager – elefanten-fotolexikon.eu
It is written here that Burma is already 68 years old and that she was born in 1952 and not in 1959.
Australian and ( NZ) Elephants news and discussion
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Burma -> Petra Prager – elefanten-fotolexikon.eu
It is written here that Burma is already 68 years old and that she was born in 1952 and not in 1959.
Elephant Barn Tour at Taronga Western Plains Zoo:
A nice video showing the behind-the-scenes elephant area at Dubbo which consists of three barns that house their eight elephants. It was interesting to learn that the zoo have four main elephant enclosures. Pathi Harn is certainly growing a nice sets of tusks!
Source: Taronga Western Plains Zoo's Facebook page
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A nice video showing the behind-the-scenes elephant area at Dubbo which consists of three barns that house their eight elephants. It was interesting to learn that the zoo have four main elephant enclosures. Pathi Harn is certainly growing a nice sets of tusks!
Source: Taronga Western Plains Zoo's Facebook page
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Yes they're kept in four herds:
Gung
Pathi Harn
Luk Chai
Thong Dee and Sabai
Porntip and Kanlaya
Burma
I'm guessing Jai Dee and Sabai will be paired up in Burma's exhibit when she dies if they don't move in with Luk Chain and Pathi Harn.
Taronga Zoo have announced the death of their Asian Elephant calf, Jai Dee due to a twisted bowel. Absolutely devastating and heart-breaking news. This leaves the zoo with only two females - Tang Mo and Pak Boon. I had the privilege of seeing him last year at Taronga Zoo (one of my photos is below). 
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Devastating news!
Taronga have now lost two calves within two years.
It’s terrible luck for Taronga and Pak Boon, but I think the question that will start to be asked now is: what next for Taronga Zoo’s Asian Elephants? Do they retain their two remaining females and maybe import a male and continue the breeding program there, or do they export them to their sister zoo (TWPZ)?
Either way, Pak Boon (28) is now a priority to be bred considering she has no surviving calves and is fast approaching the age where females began to experience menopause (36). Taronga now have their bull exhibit vacant since the Giraffes have moved into their new home, so theoretically they could import another bull.
Taronga have now lost two calves within two years.
It’s terrible luck for Taronga and Pak Boon, but I think the question that will start to be asked now is: what next for Taronga Zoo’s Asian Elephants? Do they retain their two remaining females and maybe import a male and continue the breeding program there, or do they export them to their sister zoo (TWPZ)?
Either way, Pak Boon (28) is now a priority to be bred considering she has no surviving calves and is fast approaching the age where females began to experience menopause (36). Taronga now have their bull exhibit vacant since the Giraffes have moved into their new home, so theoretically they could import another bull.
TWPZ have five Asian Elephant exhibits, three on display, and two off display; alongside two barns.
There is also a small yard next to Off display enclosure 1, which I assume is used for training sessions.
Their Asian Elephants are currently displayed in 5 groups:
Luk Chai (2009) and Sabai (2016)
Pathi Harn (2010)
Thong Dee (1997), Porntip (1992) Kanlaya (2018)
Gung (2000)
Burma (1955)
Taronga Zoo have announced the death of their Asian Elephant calf, Jai Dee due to a twisted bowel. Absolutely devastating and heart-breaking news. This leaves the zoo with only two females - Tang Mo and Pak Boon. I had the privilege of seeing him last year at Taronga Zoo (one of my photos is below).
Devastating news!
Taronga have now lost two calves within two years.
It’s terrible luck for Taronga and Pak Boon, but I think the question that will start to be asked now is: what next for Taronga Zoo’s Asian Elephants? Do they retain their two remaining females and maybe import a male and continue the breeding program there, or do they export them to their sister zoo (TWPZ)?
Either way, Pak Boon (28) is now a priority to be bred considering she has no surviving calves and is fast approaching the age where females began to experience menopause (36). Taronga now have their bull exhibit vacant since the Giraffes have moved into their new home, so theoretically they could import another bull.
This is sad news indeed, especially given Jai Dee gave everyone something positive to focus on in the wake of Tukta's tragic death.
In my opinion, they would be best cutting their losses and sending the two females to Taronga Western Plains Zoo to rejoin their herd. The chances of Tang Mo ever having a calf are slim and trying to rebuild a herd around a cow of almost 30 seems unviable, especially if her next calf doesn't survive.
The public seem to be swaying towards the opinion that elephants are not for city zoos; and in the next decade, this sentiment will only grow stronger. Perth and Melbourne have already committed to phasing out elephants and the pressure is on Taronga to follow. They may be reluctant, given it will give their competitors (Sydney Zoo) a point of difference; but it is probably the way to go.
I am surprised The rest of the elephant herd has not moved out to Dubbo I believe it would be a wise move
100% agree. Space is not a problem, as they can group Tang Mo and Pak Boon with Porntip, Thong Dee and Kanlaya; but with WORZ’s Elephant precinct (set to be about 50 acres large) being built before the end of the decade, Luk Chai could be sent as a breeding bull to free up a little space at TWPZ.
Keep in mind, Sydney Zoo plan to import two young bulls from Ireland soon, so we could have about 8 bulls in the country; with 3 zoos holding them (TWPZ, WORZ and SZ). I wouldn’t be surprised if a bull or two were sent overseas in similar circumstances to Ongard who left to the US in 2018.
One has to wonder...Perhaps a trade is afoot? Not that Europe really needs it at all right now with so many bulls from so many different lines, but Pathi Harn or Luk Chai would make an excellent new breeding bull for Dublin considering either one would be a founder for the European population.
Although of course, it would seem the Sydney Zoo is not allowed to be part of the regional aussie elephant population for whatever stupid reason, so perhaps not. God the Australian elephant population is a mess right now.
Man Jai is the obvious choice for export, given that he isn't able to be easily placed into a bachelor herd. There's no other bulls at Melbourne; and by the time another is born, there will be close to a decade between them. Sabai has been spending time with the two adolescents at TWPZ, so could easily be assimilated into their herd. Given that two of the four reproductive age females at Melbourne Zoo are his direct relatives, Sabai is unlikely to be of much use for breeding at Werribee; but could be of great value to an overseas facility.
Mmm not surprised that the program seems to be falling apart.
No it isn’t. The Australasian elephant population is a generally youthful population with many viable breeding cows. With the exception of Mali (adolescent, first generation) every cow of reproductive age is a founder and unrelated to all other elephants, except her offspring. There are currently three male lines, with enough genetic diversity to sustain the population for decades without import.
If I was to make any criticism of the breeding programme, it’d be that the age gaps between the calves are large; but this is a reasonable consequence of the high survival rate of calves (7/11 are still alive).
It's not really the zoo's fault, just horrible
luck.
Melbourne has lost two elephant calves from five, whilst Taronga have lost two from 6. Ongard and Pathi Harn's births weren't exactly smooth as well, with a lot of complications. Then, they've been unsuccessful with breeding Tang Mo as well as Permai at Perth, and to a lesser extent-Anjalee at Auckland.
If there was one little criticism of the bredding program, it would be of Melbourne's in recent times. They haven't had a calf born in over 4 years. Kulab (2000) is now over 10 years since she last gave birth, Dokkon (1993) meanwhile has had almost a seven year gap since she last gave birth, and Num-oi (2001) has gave birth twice but both of the calves unfortunately are deceased.
Their breeding bull, Bong Su died three years ago, but I don't know why they haven't tried AI with Putra Mas. I'm mostly worried about Kulab ever successfully breeding again. Melbourne can't afford to wait until the they move to WORZ, because by that time Kulab could be about 28, and hasn't breed in 18 years. Dokkon who will then be 35, and Num-oi (27) could be in some dire circumstances as well.
I'm lead to believe Man-Jai will be heading to WORZ, but they still have another 6-8 years before the move to decide. I do agree with you though, Man Jai seems a perfect candidate.
Also, I'm curious to know how Sabai is related to two Melbourne's females? Do you mean Pathi Harn?
Btw, post #2000 !!
It’s somewhat ironic that Melbourne Zoo holds 3/3 reproductively viable breeding females from their import, but has shown the least initiative in breeding lately; compared to Taronga Zoo, Perth Zoo and Auckland Zoo, who have all been unsuccessful in breeding with Tang Mo, Permai and Anjalee respectively.
I'm lead to believe Man-Jai will be heading to WORZ, but they still have another 6-8 years before the move to decide. I do agree with you though, Man Jai seems a perfect candidate.
Also, I'm curious to know how Sabai is related to two Melbourne's females? Do you mean Pathi Harn?
Btw, post #2000 !!
No, I meant Man Jai (a direct relative of Dokkoon and Mali). Pathi Harn is of course related to Mali (and Man Jai), but not to any founder females except his mother.
Though I’m also thinking it’s possible the region might want to retain Man Jai, given that he’s only one of two living bulls sired by Bong Su. This is a patrilineal line they will want to maintain in the region; and until one of them is in a breeding situation, it would be wise to retain the other as a back up - especially since the option of breeding more offspring from Bong Su is sadly no longer an option.
It struck me last night that the death of Pak Boon’s second offspring means that Gung now only has two living offspring - his two sons with Thong Dee.
I think the reasons why MZ have seemingly halted breeding with their Asain Elephants are because of a) Bong Su's death, and b) the realisation that maybe City Zoos aren't best for elephants.
Man Jai is almost 7, and if AI with Putra Mas isn't an option at MZ, than why not try him with Kulab and Num-oi. Gung sired Luk Chai at about same age so it's a possibility.
Bong Su currently has three living descendents in the Australia: Mali (2010), Pathi Harn (2010) and Man Jai (2013)
Gung currently has two living suns in Australia both with Thong Dee: Luk Chai (2009) and Sabai (2016)
Putra Mas has one daughter in Australia: Kanlaya (2018)
That's six living calves; four males and two females, with two of them at MZ and four at TWPZ.
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
Why do you think they are excluded? I have no doubt that if Sydney Zoo acquired breeding age elephants they would be welcomed into the regional breeding program.
As reported by @dublinlion and @WhistlingKite24 in the Dublin Zoo news and Sydney Zoo news threads, it appears Dublin are preparing to export two young bulls to Sydney Zoo. The young bulls are most likely Kavi and Ashoka, half-brothers born in 2014.