Just because of their present age does not mean they act like young calfs two young bulls are still large powerful animals and like people have likes and dislikes we dont know at this point what they are like all are different.
Australian and ( NZ) Elephants news and discussion
- Thread starter Jambo
- Start date
Sydney Zoo have two Elephant exhibits, do they not? The two bulls could be placed in one, with Saigon in the other. It's simple.
Nobody is saying that the two bulls are going to get along well with each other as they get older, but at the moment they are completely fine with each others company. They are currently living together at the Dublin Zoo, and one flight on a plane is going go make them say, 'hey we don't like each other anymore'.
We don't know what they will be like in the future. If a problem arises, than I'm sure it will be solved through exports. Taronga are currently without a bull, and Werribee have a new Elephant complex being built. Those are just some of the options.
Thank you for putting my mind at rest and also stating publicly on Zoochat that they are completely fine with each others company and are currently living together at Dublin zoo, Thank you again
We have confirmation!
The bulls are indeed Kavi (17/07/2014) and Ashoka (19/08/2014). They can be identified by their DOB in this document:
https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/la/papers/Pages/qanda-tracking-details.aspx?pk=244610
They were always going to be the ones to head to Sydney. The next oldest candidate was three, so that wasn't likely to happen.
Good confirmation though.
Now all we need is the news that they are on their way! 
Two camels have arrived at Taronga zoo and have moved into the former Bull Elephant Yard. I know this has nothing to do with Elephants but it has a little bit to say about the direction of Taronga's Elephant breeding program.
It is now impossible for a bull male to be imported to reboot their breeding program, since the exhibit is being occupied by Camels. The only way they can continue it is with AI. Pak Boon has never had a calf successfully through AI, and may have never been through a procedure before. She is 28, and has no living calves whereas the other female, Tang Mo has failed to sustain a pregnancy. I don't think it's feasible to build a herd off one female who is almost thirty, and AI. That's why it seems inevitable that these two will be sent to TWPZ soon.
Yes, it does appear the writing is on the wall. While it’s possible the camels are only being temporarily housed there until an exhibit is built (like the giraffes were) for the sole purpose of filling an empty exhibit; the exhibit is just down from the Australian trail and could be easily linked in.
With Tricia still going strong at Perth and Melbourne Zoo in no apparent rush to get shot of Man Jai, it could be as simple as there will be no surplus bull for at least 12 months; though long term I agree the most productive course of action is to relocate the two cows to Dubbo.
The Wild Asia exhibit would be a good exhibit for a bachelor group of Asian elephants IMO, or a massive renovation could take place linking Gung's old yard with the Wild Asia yard via a linear trail. (Perhaps the new Congo Precinct should be built so the elephant trail can go over the old gorilla habitat), and a potential crossing over the guest path would make quite a dynamic entrance to Wild Asia TBH, much like African Elephant Crossing at Cleveland Metroparks Zoo.
That would be impressive indeed! Considering the elephant trail part of the master plan is still at least 2-3 years away, that would tie in perfectly for Sabai (2016) leaving his mother.
Ideally they will continue (successfully) with his introductions to Luk Chai (2009) and Pathi Harn (2010), especially since there won’t be another male calf at TWPZ in the immediate future.
The exchange of these three bulls for the two cows at TZ would give TWPZ a female herd of five!
I think at Dubbo they need to come of the horse and opt for the natural ecology of adult breeding cow elephants at go for 3-5 year intervals for new calves to be born and a bull at hand for introductions when females are cycling.That would be impressive indeed! Considering the elephant trail part of the master plan is still at least 2-3 years away, that would tie in perfectly for Sabai (2016) leaving his mother.
Ideally they will continue (successfully) with his introductions to Luk Chai (2009) and Pathi Harn (2010), especially since there won’t be another male calf at TWPZ in the immediate future.
The exchange of these three bulls for the two cows at TZ would give TWPZ a female herd of five!
This should happen at other open range establishments too as the city zoos will never be able to provide that kind of accommodation. Keep elderly non reproductive and bachelor herds in city zoos.
And PLEASE: Set up a bachelor herd facility at Werribee or Dubbo (along with a breeding herd at each) for starters too.
Taronga Western Plains Zoo has a bachelor herd facility with separate barns and paddocks for the bulls (alongside their breeding herd); and Werribee will no doubt implement something similar, with the current plan being for Man Jai to accompany the female herd to Werribee in a few years.
With two open range zoos holding elephants, there could be opportunities for more regular breeding as clusters of similar age bulls born at these facilities could form bachelor herds without issue. Female calves would obviously remain with the female herd; and males born out of sync (a single male calf born amongst a cluster of females) would be natural candidates for export overseas.
As things stand, there will be only three city zoos holding elephants long term - Auckland Zoo, Taronga Zoo and Sydney Zoo.
Thanks for clarifying.
Construction work begins next week on the Werribee expansion, which includes the Melbourne Zoo elephant herd moving to Werribee:
Elephants move in as Werribee Open Range Zoo expands
This will be a great move for the herd, with plenty of room for the herd to expand over the next few decades.
0.1 Mek Kapah (1978)
0.1 Dokoon (1993)
0.1 Kulab (2000)
0.1 Num-Oi (2001)
0.1 Mali (2010) Bong su x Dokoon
1.0 Man Jai (2013) Bong Su x Dokoon
Elephants move in as Werribee Open Range Zoo expands
This will be a great move for the herd, with plenty of room for the herd to expand over the next few decades.
0.1 Mek Kapah (1978)
0.1 Dokoon (1993)
0.1 Kulab (2000)
0.1 Num-Oi (2001)
0.1 Mali (2010) Bong su x Dokoon
1.0 Man Jai (2013) Bong Su x Dokoon
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They do need a bull A.S.A.P.
Putra Mas seems the obvious choice to me:
- Perth Zoo are phasing out their elephants
- All Melbourne’s cows are unrelated to him
- He’s a founder with only one surviving offspring
Plus, he can be imported in 2023 when Man Jai is ten years old and well past the critical risk period for contracting EEHV.
I can not see why the proposed elephant exhibit has to be put last while the Bison which can be found on many farms get put first, I believe putting the elephant move first is a better idea also I believe under the present plan the exhibit will be built in stages so it may take a while to finish all the stages, lets get the elephant breeding program back on track and elephant movements sorted this should be a priority!
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
Agree. From an ethical standpoint the zoo has dragged their heels for too long on this. IMO moving the elephants was more important than any of the last three developments (baboons, lemurs, lions).
Also, its not sounding like Werribee is using the elephants as an opportunity build an asian pecinct and greatly expand their species count. Hopefully thats all in phase 2.
Auckland Zoo Announce Plans to Phase Out Elephants
Auckland Zoo announces decision to move elephants | Auckland Zoo News
Auckland Zoo has made the heart-breaking decision to move its two female Asian elephants Burma and Anjalee to a new home - to give them both the family herd they need for their long-term wellbeing.
In the last five years, Auckland Zoo has faced a number of significant obstacles to its original goal of establishing an elephant family herd. An additional female was expected to arrive from Sri Lanka’s Pinnawala Elephant Orphanage shortly after Anjalee in 2015 but this has not progressed, and she remains in Sri Lanka.
In addition, five artificial insemination (AI) attempts [working with the world’s leading elephant reproductive experts] were made between 2017-19 with Anjalee. Sadly, none of these were successful and now a number of insurmountable challenges mean that no further AI attempts are currently possible here in New Zealand.
“We are currently working with our international zoo colleagues at other accredited zoos with excellent elephant programmes to secure the best possible home overseas that meets both Anjalee and Burma’s respective needs for their long-term wellbeing and future security.
“At the current time, we anticipate that they will potentially be leaving us by mid-2021, so there will be plenty of opportunity for people to see them and say their farewells."
Auckland Zoo announces decision to move elephants | Auckland Zoo News
Auckland Zoo has made the heart-breaking decision to move its two female Asian elephants Burma and Anjalee to a new home - to give them both the family herd they need for their long-term wellbeing.
In the last five years, Auckland Zoo has faced a number of significant obstacles to its original goal of establishing an elephant family herd. An additional female was expected to arrive from Sri Lanka’s Pinnawala Elephant Orphanage shortly after Anjalee in 2015 but this has not progressed, and she remains in Sri Lanka.
In addition, five artificial insemination (AI) attempts [working with the world’s leading elephant reproductive experts] were made between 2017-19 with Anjalee. Sadly, none of these were successful and now a number of insurmountable challenges mean that no further AI attempts are currently possible here in New Zealand.
“We are currently working with our international zoo colleagues at other accredited zoos with excellent elephant programmes to secure the best possible home overseas that meets both Anjalee and Burma’s respective needs for their long-term wellbeing and future security.
“At the current time, we anticipate that they will potentially be leaving us by mid-2021, so there will be plenty of opportunity for people to see them and say their farewells."
Aside from Auckland Zoo, there are six other facilities that hold Asian elephants in the region:
- Australia Zoo
- Melbourne Zoo (relocating to Werribee Open Range Zoo 2023)
- Perth Zoo (phasing out)
- Sydney Zoo
- Taronga Zoo
- Taronga Western Plains Zoo
We can discount Perth Zoo and Sydney Zoo as options for Burma and Anjalee; as well as Taronga Zoo, which will now be under even greater pressure to relocate their elephants.
This leaves Australia Zoo, Taronga Western Plains Zoo and Werribee Open Range Zoo as possible options.
Australia Zoo are unlikely to want them, due to their commitment to Sumatran elephants with Indonesia; and Werribee Open Range Zoo are at least three years away from being able to take them.
It therefore appears that Taronga Western Plains Zoo is the obvious choice for relocation. Especially since the press release by Auckland Zoo mentions giving Anjalee opportunity to breed naturally with a bull.
This will in turn have a ripple effect on Perth Zoo, who will soon be in the same boat of having to relocate Permai to an established female herd.
toothlessjaws
Well-Known Member
If Perth’s and Aucklands animals are destined for the same location, theres possibly the option to move Aucklands cows to Perth first, allowing Permai to establish new bonds prior to Tricias death and also allow Anjalee breeding opportunities be it naturally or via a much more straightforward AI procedure (assuming the covid-related issue at Auckland is flying in the semen and not the experts, which wont be much different at Perth).
Once ready, the entire herd can be moved to another zoo.
but im just thinking aloud.