Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Zoofan15]

I need reminding - is Kulab a non-breeder?

Unfortunately yes. She suffered a prolapsed uterus following the birth of Ongard in 2010; and consequently will not be breeding again. While she has recovered from the incident, a future birth would be deemed too high risk.

With Ongard’s export to the US, her line has ended in the region; but she has a close bond with Num-Oi and dotes on her daughter, Kati (as Num-Oi did when Kulab had Ongard).

 

[Luke899]

Lol Monarto right now with Burma & Permai - in terms of visitors side of things, happily those two sweethearts are being looked after amazingly:

*although to be fair its between $25 and $45 per person for general entry

So true unfortunately.

Speaking of Monarto, disappointing about the lack of regular updates regarding Burma and Permai. Only getting a small amount of updates is unusual considering the mammoth popularity of the elephants in South Australia, you’d think they’d post about them more often.

Hope their interaction is going well, as Tang Mo and Pak Boom are only 3.5 weeks away from arrival!

 

[Zoofan15]

So true unfortunately.

Speaking of Monarto, disappointing about the lack of regular updates regarding Burma and Permai. Only getting a small amount of updates is unusual considering the mammoth popularity of the elephants in South Australia, you’d think they’d post about them more often.

Hope their interaction is going well, as Tang Mo and Pak Boom are only 3.5 weeks away from arrival!

To be fair, there probably isn’t a huge amount to say at this point. Both cows are on site and have had visual and tactile contact/protected contact. Until they have a face to face meeting, I doubt they’ll be another update.

Very excited for the Taronga cows arrival though!

 

[Swanson02]

To be fair, there probably isn’t a huge amount to say at this point. Both cows are on site and have had visual and tactile contact/protected contact. Until they have a face to face meeting, I doubt they’ll be another update.

Very excited for the Taronga cow's arrival though!

I really hope Permai is doing alright. It's obvious she's taken a lot more time to adjust than expected. I hope the arrival of the Taronga cows doesn't rock the boat too much.

I am unsure if she and Burma will meet face-to-face before the Taronga cows arrive. If so? What's the approach? Wait to introduce her and Burma as a pair to the Taronga girls? Or go ahead and introduce Burma alone?

 

[Zoofan15]

I really hope Permai is doing alright. It's obvious she's taken a lot more time to adjust than expected. I hope the arrival of the Taronga cows doesn't rock the boat too much.

I am unsure if she and Burma will meet face-to-face before the Taronga cows arrive. If so? What's the approach? Wait to introduce her and Burma as a pair to the Taronga girls? Or go ahead and introduce Burma alone?

It’ll depend on if enough positive signs are observed to progress with a face to face introduction, but Monarto were initially optimistic of this occurring in a matter of weeks, suggesting the intention is to get Burma and Permai (the outsiders) familiar with each other ahead of the introduction to the Taronga cows (a bonded pair). This way, Burma and Permai can look to each other for support during the introduction.

 

[Luke899]

I really hope Permai is doing alright. It's obvious she's taken a lot more time to adjust than expected. I hope the arrival of the Taronga cows doesn't rock the boat too much.

In addition to what Zoofan said, there are enough pens to house each elephant separately if worse case scenario. Pak Boon and Tang Mo will arrive this month whether Burma and Permai are bonded or not.

 

[Jambo]

In addition to what Zoofan said, there are enough pens to house each elephant separately if worse case scenario. Pak Boon and Tang Mo will arrive this month whether Burma and Permai are bonded or not.

Both Permai and Burma seemed to show at least some interest in one another so that is a positive. Due to the risk of injury, introductions have to be very carefully managed. It's possible they've been introduced BTS already and this will be announced once they proceed to spending majority of their time together on display.

It's also important to remember Burma took a lot longer than expected to bond with Anjalee, and even then, the pair were never closely bonded. Burma's only ever been with two other cows prior to Permai; and she's not the most 'social' elephant by any means.

I wouldn't think too much into there being no announcements - Monarto are likely simply just being on the cautious side and allowing the elephants themselves to decide when the time is right.

 

[Zoofan15]

Both Permai and Burma seemed to show at least some interest in one another so that is a positive. Due to the risk of injury, introductions have to be very carefully managed. It's possible they've been introduced BTS already and this will be announced once they proceed to spending majority of their time together on display.

It's also important to remember Burma took a lot longer than expected to bond with Anjalee, and even then, the pair were never closely bonded. Burma's only ever been with two other cows prior to Permai; and she's not the most 'social' elephant by any means.

I wouldn't think too much into there being no announcements - Monarto are likely simply just being on the cautious side and allowing the elephants themselves to decide when the time is right.

I agree it’s likely that Monarto are waiting for a introduction to occur and furthermore, be successful over a period of days until making an announcement. I’ll be honest that I was surprised the goal was to have them bonded within weeks given they’re both older females. It’s so much easier with younger cows.

Burma’s bonding with Anjalee was near instantaneous, with them going out on exhibit together within days. They were literally running around the exhibit, trumpeting etc. I feel like the time spent apart from other elephants made Burma appreciative of the company when it arrived. It’s true they were never close in the sense of what you’d expect to see in a matriarchal herd though; and they were mismatched in terms of activity levels.

Kashin was the less social elephant. She took two years to bond with Burma (they basically ignored each other for this time); and when Kashin (then aged four years) began introductions to Ma Schwe (then aged eight), she was reportedly overwhelmed by the friendly overtures of the adolescent.

 

[Jambo]

I agree it’s likely that Monarto are waiting for a introduction to occur and furthermore, be successful over a period of days until making an announcement. I’ll be honest that I was surprised the goal was to have them bonded within weeks given they’re both older females. It’s so much easier with younger cows.

Burma’s bonding with Anjalee was near instantaneous, with them going out on exhibit together within days. They were literally running around the exhibit, trumpeting etc. I feel like the time spent apart from other elephants made Burma appreciative of the company when it arrived. It’s true they were never close in the sense of what you’d expect to see in a matriarchal herd though; and they were mismatched in terms of activity levels.

Kashin was the less social elephant. She took two years to bond with Burma (they basically ignored each other for this time); and when Kashin (then aged four years) began introductions to Ma Schwe (then aged eight), she was reportedly overwhelmed by the friendly overtures of the adolescent.

Since both cows have spent majority of their lives at one single facility with only a small number of other individuals it would certainly be an entirely new experience for both. I too didn't expect to see things go as well as was 'planned', but fingers crossed this still occurs even if it's taking a little longer than intended.

That's interesting re. Burma and Anjalee, I'm sure I read/heard different about them not bonding instantly. Perhaps I was confusing them with Kashin and Burma. It's not unusual for it to take time for animals to 'warm up' to one another - I know of countless other examples with other species where this has occurred, but obviously it's a much more difficult task with elephants being the incredibly intelligent animals they are.

 

[Zoofan15]

That's interesting re. Burma and Anjalee, I'm sure I read/heard different about them not bonding instantly. Perhaps I was confusing them with Kashin and Burma. It's not unusual for it to take time for animals to 'warm up' to one another - I know of countless other examples with other species where this has occurred, but obviously it's a much more difficult task with elephants being the incredibly intelligent animals they are.

Burma and Anajlee got on extremely well from the beginning. There’s a video here of their early interactions, with Andrew Coers describing them as “inseparable”:

I suspect you’re thinking of either Kashin and Burma; or Jamuna and Malini (with Jamuna initially snubbing Malini). Both those cases involved the introduction of an adult female to an adolescent female, which in both cases proved more challenging than that of an adult female to a calf (Kashin and Koru; Tricia and the trio of calves etc).

 

[Luke899]

Who are we picking for matriarch when the duo from Taronga arrive

 

[Zoofan15]

Who are we picking for matriarch when the duo from Taronga arrive

100% Pak Boon (1992).

There’s not even a chance any other cow will emerge as matriarch imo. Tang Mo (1999) is content as subordinate to Pak Boon at Taronga; and Burma (1982) and Permai (1989) both lack the drive to dominate the herd and will happily take a back seat.

Pak Boon is a strong-willed, dominant cow who will surely strive to assume the matriarch role. Essentially Burma and Permai will be joining her herd, since she and Tang Mo are a bonded pair and won’t be too far behind the others in arriving on site.

Friendship wise, I could see Burma and Tang Mo becoming close. I hope Permai will form a good bond with one of those two cows at least; but she seems less self-assured than Burma. Pak Boon’s strongest bond will surely remain with Tang Mo (at least until Pak Boon has a daughter of her own).

 

[Swanson02]

Do we know the weights of the four cows? Who's the largest size wise?

 

[Luke899]

100% Pak Boon (1992).

There’s not even a chance any other cow will emerge as matriarch imo. Tang Mo (1999) is content as subordinate to Pak Boon at Taronga; and Burma (1982) and Permai (1989) both lack the drive to dominate the herd and will happily take a back seat.

Pak Boon is a strong-willed, dominant cow who will surely strive to assume the matriarch role. Essentially Burma and Permai will be joining her herd, since she and Tang Mo are a bonded pair and won’t be too far behind the others in arriving on site.

Friendship wise, I could see Burma and Tang Mo becoming close. I hope Permai will form a good bond with one of those two cows at least; but she seems less self-assured than Burma. Pak Boon’s strongest bond will surely remain with Tang Mo (at least until Pak Boon has a daughter of her own).

So pak boon thinks she’s the shi huh? That’s so funny haha. Not too different from humans it seems.

 

[Jambo]

Do we know the weights of the four cows? Who's the largest size wise?

From my records;

Permai (1989) - 3,925 kgs as of 2023
Burma (1982) - 3,900 kgs as of 2023
Pak Boon (1992) - 3,860 kgs as of 2024
Tang Mo (1999) - 3800 kgs as of 2023

All of the cows are extremely large cows - and all roughly of the similar size as you can see.

For comparison, Putra Mas weighed in at 4,760 kgs in 2023. Not that much heavier than Permai and Burma!

The cows are also considerably larger than most of Melbourne's adult cows;

0.1 Kulab (2000) - 3840kg
0.1 Mek Kepah (1973) - 3390kg
0.1 Num-Oi (2001) - 3310kg
0.1 Dokkoon (1993) - 2870kg
0.1 Mali (2010) - 2350kg

 

[Swanson02]

From my records;

Permai (1989) - 3,925 kgs as of 2023
Burma (1982) - 3,900 kgs as of 2023
Pak Boon (1992) - 3,860 kgs as of 2024
Tang Mo (1999) - 3800 kgs as of 2023

All of the cows are extremely large cows - and all roughly of the similar size as you can see.

For comparison, Putra Mas weighed in at 4,760 kgs in 2023. Not that much heavier than Permai and Burma!

The cows are also considerably larger than most of Melbourne's adult cows;

0.1 Kulab (2000) - 3840kg
0.1 Mek Kepah (1973) - 3390kg
0.1 Num-Oi (2001) - 3310kg
0.1 Dokkoon (1993) - 2870kg
0.1 Mali (2010) - 2350kg

It's obvious Dokkoons line are very small

Roi Yim with both Dokkoon and Luk Chais genetics will probably be quite a short squat bull

 

[Zoofan15]

It's obvious Dokkoons line are very small

Roi Yim with both Dokkoon and Luk Chais genetics will probably be quite a short squat bull

Yes, if we’re to assume the calves identical weights (890kg) aren’t a typo and are either accurate or an estimate, then it’s surprising to see he hasn’t already surpassed Aiyara (and Kati) being a bull calf.

My impression of Roi-Yim is that he was a relatively squat calf - with Aiayara being slender; and Kati clearly having the makings of being a decent sized cow like her mother.

 

[Jambo]

Yes, if we’re to assume the calves identical weights (890kg) aren’t a typo and are either accurate or an estimate, then it’s surprising to see he hasn’t already surpassed Aiyara (and Kati) being a bull calf.

My impression of Roi-Yim is that he was a relatively squat calf - with Aiayara being slender; and Kati clearly having the makings of being a decent sized cow like her mother.

I think they're merely 'estimates' although all the calves would be around that weight range (ie. still less than 1000 kg). Considering the calves will still be training to be weighed (and their weight will be continuously growing) it seemed to me like a weight was just given for all three calves.

Bong Su and Dokkoon were/are both very slender individuals and Mali's much the same. From what I've seen with Roi Yim, he seems to be much the same. I'd assume he's probably now taller than both his sisters but just skinnier then them. He has long legs like his mum and grandfather (Bong Su). Aiyara seems to be a lot more stocky (like her father).

It was also interesting to see Num Oi being a lot smaller than I expected. She's quite a tall elephant, almost as tall as Kulab, but perhaps her protruding sides are a little bit deceiving making her look a lot more stocky than she actually is!

 

[Luke899]

Keeper Jody has said she is unsure when Burma and Permai will bond. Sounds like they’ll still be separated when the Taronga duo arrive.

 

[Zoofan15]

Keeper Jody has said she is unsure when Burma and Permai will bond. Sounds like they’ll still be separated when the Taronga duo arrive.

It struck me as extremely optimistic when keepers were making initial comments about them becoming “best buddies” in a matter of weeks. Introductions may well progress to them tolerating each other and being able to share a space, but realistically it could take years for them to form any semblance of what could be considered a bond.

It’ll be interesting to see how things progress once the Taronga cows arrive on site. They’ll have even less motivation to build bridges with Burma/Permai given they have each other; but it’s entirely possible Burma or Permai will connect better with one of them (my money would be on Tang Mo, who is less dominant).

In the meantime, it’s a good thing Monarto have multiple paddocks!