Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

Zoofan15 said:
Yes, it’s been very slow progress with integrating Burma and Permai. In short, it appears Permai is the issue and given the encouraging signs already seen from the Taronga cows and Burma, I anticipate that Monarto will prioritise their integration (especially since they intend for Burma to be the matriarch).

In contrast to Permai, Burma has had more experience living with other elephants. She came to New Zealand as an eight year old (versus Permai who came to Australia as a three year old and would have little memory of her past life) and not only won over Kashin (who snubbed her for two years); but instantly took to Anjalee, when she arrived at Auckland Zoo as an adolescent.

I hope Permai can be integrated with the other three long term, but even managing her in a paddock in proximity to them (and Putra Mas) would be preferable to her living life as a single cow. Burma at Dubbo led a similar existence in her final years and enjoyed interacting with the juvenile bull along the fence line.
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I agree. Hopefully Monarto will try to integrate Putra Mas with Pak Boon and Tang Mo first (with possibility of Burma if she integrates with the other two well by then). If Permai watches the interation she will realize she want to be part of the herd as elephants are social animals.

Just a thought.
 
ZCChip said:
I agree. Hopefully Monarto will try to integrate Putra Mas with Pak Boon and Tang Mo first (with possibility of Burma if she integrates with the other two well by then). If Permai watches the interation she will realize she want to be part of the herd as elephants are social animals.

Just a thought.
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Although the impression is being given that all five elephants (including Putra Mas) will be living together as a social herd, I don’t expect Putra Mas’ contact with the cows to exceed a few contact sessions a week. He’s a bull and would have no influence on the day to day running of the herd as per the natural social order.

I agree that Permai may be more motivated to join in with the herd if she observes them having positive social interactions (i.e. she sees the benefits it could bring). It will also temper any aggression she shows to Burma as Burma will (hopefully) have the support of the other cows.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Although the impression is being given that all five elephants (including Putra Mas) will be living together as a social herd, I don’t expect Putra Mas’ contact with the cows to exceed a few contact sessions a week. He’s a bull and would have no influence on the day to day running of the herd as per the natural social order.

I agree that Permai may be more motivated to join in with the herd if she observes them having positive social interactions (i.e. she sees the benefits it could bring). It will also temper any aggression she shows to Burma as Burma will (hopefully) have the support of the other cows.
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Yeah on my recent bull elephant encounter with Putra Mas the keeper mentioned that it’s Permai thats the issue not Putra Mas as after Tricia passed away in 2022 they tried putting Putra Mas and Permai together to cheer her up, she was pushing him around and corned him and funnily enough she was the issue not him. So maybe after the loss of Tricia she hasn’t gotten on with any other elephants…. And Putra Mas apparently has a great nature so hopefully he can get a long well with Pak boon.

-Clearly Permai not coping is showing with her current situation in monarto
 

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Johnpaul21 said:
Yeah on my recent bull elephant encounter with Putra Mas the keeper mentioned that it’s Permai thats the issue not Putra Mas as after Tricia passed away in 2022 they tried putting Putra Mas and Permai together to cheer her up, she was pushing him around and corned him and funnily enough she was the issue not him. So maybe after the loss of Tricia she hasn’t gotten on with any other elephants…. And Putra Mas apparently has a great nature so hopefully he can get a long well with Pak boon.

-Clearly Permai not coping is showing with her current situation in monarto
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You raise some good points. Overall, Permai comes across socially stunted, which could be explainable by her living since the age of three in such a small herd (two elephants following the passing of Teduh when Permai was 18 years of age). Compare this to Burma and the Taronga cows who have had a wider array of social experiences during their lifetime. Burma spent her juvenile years in a logging camp (with other elephants) and then integrated first with Kashin and then later, Anjalee. The Taronga cows formed a cohesive herd of four females, collectively parenting/alloparenting young.

There is definitely some truth in elephants from unrelated herds taking time to form bonds (if at all). After all, the natural social order is a multigenerational herd of related females (not females thrown together); but of the females thrown together, it’s Permai who not coping the most. There’s no real solution bar patience and time - and even then, the result is uncertain.
 
Semen collection from Taronga/Dubbo bull Heman:

Since a number of us have commented how regrettable it was that Heman was unable to contribute his genes to the Australasian population, I was intrigued to learn that semen was manually collected from Heman on three occasions at Dubbo in 2006.

The semen was collected opportunistically on all three occasions during management of a toenail abscess; and noted to have been collected for investigation of reproductive function for potential involvement in the regional captive breeding programme:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-0813.2007.00207.x

An additional piece of information in this document that Heman weighed 4.5 tonnes. At 50 years of age, he may have lost condition since his prime; but I had always imagined him heavier from photos I’ve seen of him. He looked to have been an impressive bull.

1.0 Heman
Born in the wild 00/00/1956
Arrived at Taronga Zoo 01/02/1963
Sent to Taronga Western Plains Zoo 05/11/2005
Died at Taronga Western Plains Zoo 28/12/2006
 
Zoofan15 said:
Semen collection from Taronga/Dubbo bull Heman:

Since a number of us have commented how regrettable it was that Heman was unable to contribute his genes to the Australasian population, I was intrigued to learn that semen was manually collected from Heman on three occasions at Dubbo in 2006.

The semen was collected opportunistically on all three occasions during management of a toenail abscess; and noted to have been collected for investigation of reproductive function for potential involvement in the regional captive breeding programme:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-0813.2007.00207.x

An additional piece of information in this document that Heman weighed 4.5 tonnes. At 50 years of age, he may have lost condition since his prime; but I had always imagined him heavier from photos I’ve seen of him. He looked to have been an impressive bull.

1.0 Heman
Born in the wild 00/00/1956
Arrived at Taronga Zoo 01/02/1963
Sent to Taronga Western Plains Zoo 05/11/2005
Died at Taronga Western Plains Zoo 28/12/2006
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I saw him in 1977 he looked in good condition at that time I would not have a problem believing he was 5 tonnes plus at that time. I had read some years ago that semen from the asian species does not freeze well and no elephant as of yet had been bred using frozen semen unlike the African species which has/had. I have not heard or read if this problem in freezing the asian species has been resolved?.
 
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Zorro said:
I saw him in 1977 he looked in good condition at that time I would not have a problem believing he was 5 tonnes plus at that time. I had read some years ago that semen from the asian species does not freeze well and no elephant as of yet had been bred using frozen semen unlike the African species which has/had. I have not heard or read if this problem in freezing the asian species has beed resolved?.
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I’ve heard the same. As of 2017, only one successful pregnancy (within the global captive population) has been reported using frozen semen.

All successful AI attempts across Australasian zoos used fresh semen, which was transported within the required timeframe to the receiving zoo (if applicable i.e. Perth to Dubbo) or carried out on site.

Auckland Zoo undertook AI attempts with Anjalee in the late 2010’s using frozen semen (after the death of Bong Su) and this was unsuccessful. There have been no reports of AI attempts in the region since then using frozen semen since then.

At least regionally, there’d be little reason to undertake AI with frozen semen when the donor bulls we have (Putra Mas and Gung are both trained for AI) are capable of supplying fresh semen at short notice.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I’ve heard the same. As of 2017, only one successful pregnancy (within the global captive population) has been reported using frozen semen.

All successful AI attempts across Australasian zoos used fresh semen, which was transported within the required timeframe to the receiving zoo (if applicable i.e. Perth to Dubbo) or carried out on site.

Auckland Zoo undertook AI attempts with Anjalee in the late 2010’s using frozen semen (after the death of Bong Su) and this was unsuccessful. There have been no reports of AI attempts in the region since then using frozen semen since then.

At least regionally, there’d be little reason to undertake AI with frozen semen when the donor bulls we have (Putra Mas and Gung are both trained for AI) are capable of supplying fresh semen at short notice.
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I had heard the breeding bull in Singapore was being considered for the importation of his semen about the same time as Taronga's breeding program started to kick off. Perhaps the process of the import was too complex at the time could of made it unattractive option?.
 
Zorro said:
I had heard the breeding bull in Singapore was being considered for the importation of his semen about the same time as Taronga's breeding program started to kick off. Perhaps the process of the import was too complex at the time could have made it unattractive option?.
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Auckland Zoo similarly put in applications to have the option to import semen from Europe, but like you say, logistically it isn’t ideal.

In any case, the region has yet to exhaust all founder bulls; and from there, there’s the option to breed from first and even second generation bulls, so it’ll be several decades before imported bulls (or their semen) are essential to the progression of the regional breeding programme.
 
Zoofan15 said:
An additional piece of information in this document that Heman weighed 4.5 tonnes. At 50 years of age, he may have lost condition since his prime; but I had always imagined him heavier from photos I’ve seen of him. He looked to have been an impressive bull.
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He was quite short - not much taller than Burma, so that would explain why he appeared bigger than he actually was!

According to accounts at the time, he did lose condition in his later years, especially after moving to Dubbo. Keepers weren't sure whether it was due to stress from the move, and Burma didn't make things much easier harassing him. So it's easy to imagine he was far more than 5 tonnes in his prime.
 
Zorro said:
I had heard the breeding bull in Singapore was being considered for the importation of his semen about the same time as Taronga's breeding program started to kick off. Perhaps the process of the import was too complex at the time could of made it unattractive option?.
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I remember reading the same - I'd imagine it may have been an option if AI training with Bong Su didn't eventuate. Singapore is considered a partner to Australia (similar to NZ), so it's no surprise they thought about utilising Chawang who is a very valuable, impressive bull.

The import would've indeed been very expensive, and there would've been little point once they determined they could use Bong Su instead.
 
Jambo said:
I remember reading the same - I'd imagine it may have been an option if AI training with Bong Su didn't eventuate. Singapore is considered a partner to Australia (similar to NZ), so it's no surprise they thought about utilising Chawang who is a very valuable, impressive bull.

The import would've indeed been very expensive, and there would've been little point once they determined they could use Bong Su instead.
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I believe Chawang was considered in addition to Bong Su as it had been established long before the Taronga import that Bong Su was a highly fertile bull (indicating AI collection had already been undertaken). It was mentioned when Steve’s team visited Trail of the Elephants the year it opened in 2003.

Since Gung was originally intended for Auckland Zoo, consideration may have been given to using Chawang on Taronga cows had Heman not worked out. It seemed like Taronga gave a lot of thought to importing semen around that time. In the early 2000’s, chimpanzee semen was imported from Auckland Zoo (but deemed unviable); and they also imported giraffe semen (also from Auckland).

The main thing is a successful breeding programme was founded; but it would have been either better to have had the genetic diversity of calves from Heman. The import of Gung was arranged 2005, so they were clearly planning on using Heman in preference (understandable considering he was 50); combined with the uncertainty Gung would be able to breed (especially older cows) so young. I think the Prawn took everyone by surprise in that regard. :p
 
Zoofan15 said:
The main thing is a successful breeding programme was founded; but it would have been either better to have had the genetic diversity of calves from Heman. The import of Gung was arranged 2005, so they were clearly planning on using Heman in preference (understandable considering he was 50); combined with the uncertainty Gung would be able to breed (especially older cows) so young. I think the Prawn took everyone by surprise in that regard. :p
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I assume that would have been why Chawang was given consideration too; acknowledging Heman's age. In saying that, AI is a very expensive procedure, so in the event Gung did end up going to Auckland, it's likely they would've only elected to use it get all their cows pregnant initially.

Then perhaps they could've looked at acquiring another bull from within the region; perhaps Putra Mas, since Perth had no breeding plans.

With Heman, it would be interesting to know if Taronga ever attempted to utilise his frozen semen if it was viable (keep in mind, it's possible it might not have been). Several zoos in the USA have utilised multiple semen samples during a single cycle to maximise chances of success.
 
Jambo said:
Chawang is a bull from Singapore. He currently resides at the Night Safari.

He has sired three calves - two of which remain at Night Safari. His eldest son (Sang Raja) is currently in a bachelor situation in France, however he already has four young sons (Chawang's only grand children).
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Thanks for making the dots connect. I got lost with the connection with the name. Yes, I am familiar with Sang Raja. Thanks again.
 
Jambo said:
I assume that would have been why Chawang was given consideration too; acknowledging Heman's age. In saying that, AI is a very expensive procedure, so in the event Gung did end up going to Auckland, it's likely they would've only elected to use it get all their cows pregnant initially.

Then perhaps they could've looked at acquiring another bull from within the region; perhaps Putra Mas, since Perth had no breeding plans.

With Heman, it would be interesting to know if Taronga ever attempted to utilise his frozen semen if it was viable (keep in mind, it's possible it might not have been). Several zoos in the USA have utilised multiple semen samples during a single cycle to maximise chances of success.
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There was always a degree in confidence in announcing the sire along with the pregnancies of the Australian cows that conceived via AI, so we can conclude none of the Australian cows that successfully conceived was via mixed semen AI; however it’s certainly a possibility that there were unsuccessful AI attempts with Heman’s semen (if of sufficient quality).

Once Heman died, his stored semen would have soared in value (genetically speaking), so in inclined to believe Taronga would have wanted to use it on site with their cows (as opposed to sending to Perth, Auckland etc). Melbourne (and Perth) had their own AI trained bulls of course.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Seeing an adult bull elephant submerge is an incredible experience. In Melbourne’s herd, it was the calves that were never out of the pool; but I anticipate the adults in both Monarto and Werribee’s herds will get a lot of use out of the pool. It’ll be invaluable on the hot days.

It’s likely consideration was given in the design of Monarto’s complex to ensuring at least one of the paddocks has a pool that’s either shallow; or can be drained without creating a fall hazard to make it safe for calves. This was factored into the design of TOTE.
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I've seen a lot of Werribee's cows enjoy the pool thus far - Kulab, Num Oi and Mali especially. Makes sense with them being the youngest of the adults. Luk Chai's also quite a big water baby, and even going back to his time at Melbourne, he was often in the pool. It's no surprise considering he grew up in a rather youthful Taronga herd, often playing in the pool there.

It's interesting that you also mention the TOTE pools - the one in the main cow exhibit was specifically designed for calves, standing at a depth of 1.5 meters. Obviously when the calves were super young, it was drained, but was a perfect little pool to enable the calves to be able to develop their skills and confidence around the water from virtually day one.
 
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