Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Jambo]

And more space for bulls is so needed. Melbourne should really keep their now-empty facilities for a bull group!!! They could easily accommodate a bachelor group of 3 without any modifications necessary!!‘

I highly doubt it, simply for the fact that it would look silly to see a small group of bull elephants in the small paddocks at Melbourne when you have other elephants roaming the huge 50 acre complex at Werribee.

Still, that's just my perspective for how Zoos Victoria are currently seeing things with that, even though I agree two to three bulls would make nice use of the current complex and provide great support to the regional breeding program.

 

[Zoofan15]

As far as I'm aware, the differences of opinion amongst those who work with the region's elephants (in terms of keeping and management) seem to surround how conservative the powers that be should be in terms of issuing breeding recommendations. As has been mentioned many times, the hope in extending breeding intervals (and retiring cows from breeding) is that most of the calves born will live, and there is a 'risk' of a large number of bull calves which will need to be homed throughout their lives, whether in Australia or overseas.

The gamble in the other direction is that, if herds suffer from EEHV or deaths due to other causes, there is a lack of sustainability or representation of particular founders within the region's herds.

You can't really know the outcome until after it's happened. I would generally support breeding more elephants, or at least attempting to, although I see why that might actually be at odds with the ethos of modern zoos in terms of wanting to give their elephants plenty of space and not knowing what to do with surplus bull calves (noting the example of Dubbo as mentioned above).

The other point to consider with regards to bull calves is the advantage of them being born in cohorts (or at least within a short space of time). Bachelor groupings in Australasian zoos have been most successful when the bulls have been close in age (Luk Chai and Man Jai; Kavi and Ashoka etc). Generally speaking, they can be left together for extended periods of time without the risk of serious injury to the younger bull as would be the concern in pairing a juvenile bull with an adult bull.

Though it’s important to acknowledge bachelor herds can’t be relied on as a long term solution (bulls mature; bulls begin musth cycles etc), it represents a significant amount of time (at least into the mid-teens) where efficient use of space can be made.

This argument supports regular breeding. If you’re gonna have three bull calves born at a facility over the course of 10 years, you may as well have them born within five years of each other; rather the second born five years later and the third born five years after that (ten years after the first). This is presumably the rationale behind Werribee electing to breed another cohort of calves around five years after the first - likely seeing them welcome an additional bull calf or two within five years of Roi-Yim’s birth.

 

[Zorro]

I had wondered if with regards to future housing of any surplus bulls if Monarto zoo with its massive size could build a housing complex co-owed, co-managed and co-paid for by all 3 open range zoos this sounds fair and perhaps a solution if needed!

 

[Zoofan15]

I had wondered if with regards to future housing of any surplus bulls if Monarto zoo with its massive size could build a housing complex co-owed, co-managed and co-paid for by all 3 open range zoos this sounds fair and perhaps a solution if needed!

It’s certainly a possibility. It was reported by the media last year that Auckland Zoo were keen to move a juvenile bull giraffe on and paid Hamilton Zoo to upgrade their giraffe barn to enable them to receive him. The development of expanded bull facilities would represent a significantly larger investment than that example; but would surely be money well spent for the zoos that are able to free up capacity/breed more calves by shifting some bulls.

Either way, if Monarto fail to generate succession (i.e. get female calves from Pak Boon), they’ll have an incentive to acquire bulls/more elephants in that they’ll be faced with the dilemma of replacing an ageing herd as the cows inevitably pass on over the next 2-3 decades.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Though it’s important to acknowledge bachelor herds can’t be relied on as a long term solution (bulls mature; bulls begin musth cycles etc), it represents a significant amount of time (at least into the mid-teens) where efficient use of space can be made.

Bulls can be kept in groups into adulthood, so long as there are sufficient spaces available for when they are in musth. Denver Zoo in the US does this beautifully and as a result are currently set up with a fully mature bull, a few young adult bulls and some adolescents. A few facilities designed like that would be unquestionably ideal for Australia so that they aren't limiting breeding out of fear of producing bulls.
Imo Monarto would be of most value as a breeding facility, as two breeding facilities with ~four (Assuming Anjalee produces a daughter and the other lines' daughters survive) matrilines will eventually become a hassle between space and naturally fracturing groups. Should Pak Boon fail to breed or produce only sons, I anticipate Werribee or Dubbo could easily send a line to Monarto.

I will note as well that the situation with Ongard breeding mostly lies in the fact that he is relatively young and that he is the sole companion for an aging cow. In even 4-5 years time I imagine he'll move on elswhere. The US is begining to implement bull swaps much more frequently than in previous years, so it is doubtless that valuable young bulls from Australia's lines will be sought after.

I will say as well that, although currently unlikely, it isn't entirely off the table for Australia to export a matriline should space become a huge legitimate issue and no additional facilities step up.

 

[Zorro]

Bulls can be kept in groups into adulthood, so long as there are sufficient spaces available for when they are in musth. Denver Zoo in the US does this beautifully and as a result are currently set up with a fully mature bull, a few young adult bulls and some adolescents. A few facilities designed like that would be unquestionably ideal for Australia so that they aren't limiting breeding out of fear of producing bulls.
Imo Monarto would be of most value as a breeding facility, as two breeding facilities with ~four (Assuming Anjalee produces a daughter and the other lines' daughters survive) matrilines will eventually become a hassle between space and naturally fracturing groups. Should Pak Boon fail to breed or produce only sons, I anticipate Werribee or Dubbo could easily send a line to Monarto.

I will note as well that the situation with Ongard breeding mostly lies in the fact that he is relatively young and that he is the sole companion for an aging cow. In even 4-5 years time I imagine he'll move on elswhere. The US is begining to implement bull swaps much more frequently than in previous years, so it is doubtless that valuable young bulls from Australia's lines will be sought after.

I will say as well that, although currently unlikely, it isn't entirely off the table for Australia to export a matriline should space become a huge legitimate issue and no additional facilities step up.

It was mentioned here recently that Dubbo has a young bull in a paddock each so if that is the case no wonder there is a space problem there

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

It was mentioned here recently that Dubbo has a young bull in a paddock each so if that is the case no wonder there is a space problem there

I've read that Werribee plans to hold their bulls in a similar fashion, which will limit their capacity as well.
I've never understood why Australia manages their bulls this way when other facilities have proven that bulls thrive in social settings. I truthfully see very little reason to keep mature bulls seperate from cow groups unless they're proving to be too rough on the cows/calves. Especially in a large complex like Werribee, they would have the oppertunity to be as close or far from each other as they choose.

 

[Zorro]

I've read that Werribee plans to hold their bulls in a similar fashion, which will limit their capacity as well.
I've never understood why Australia manages their bulls this way when other facilities have proven that bulls thrive in social settings. I truthfully see very little reason to keep mature bulls seperate from cow groups unless they're proving to be too rough on the cows/calves. Especially in a large complex like Werribee, they would have the oppertunity to be as close or far from each other as they choose.

Perhaps Werribee can if needed add a couple of extra (more than currently) bull paddocks on to the current complex in time they should have the room to do this if they wanted too. I am more concerned about the current lack of proper holdings at Dubbo and the sidelining of two breed-able adult cows.
Also it appears there is no movement currently to add a much needed cow barn which is counter productive seeing there is a real lack of adult breeding age females in the country its bad management and planning

 

[Zoofan15]

It was mentioned here recently that Dubbo has a young bull in a paddock each so if that is the case no wonder there is a space problem there

I've read that Werribee plans to hold their bulls in a similar fashion, which will limit their capacity as well.
I've never understood why Australia manages their bulls this way when other facilities have proven that bulls thrive in social settings. I truthfully see very little reason to keep mature bulls seperate from cow groups unless they're proving to be too rough on the cows/calves. Especially in a large complex like Werribee, they would have the oppertunity to be as close or far from each other as they choose.

Yes, Werribee have two bull paddocks with the plan to grow a tree line to screen them off from each other (enabling two bulls to be held side by side).

As a starting point, they have the adult bull Luk Chai (2009) and his two year old son Roi-Yim (2023), so initially they’ll manage them fission-fushion with Roi-Yim spending increasing time with his sire from six or seven years old as he begins to transition out of the female herd.

The separate yards will have more value when they bring the new breeding bull in once Luk Chai has been retired from breeding.

 

[Zoofan15]

Perhaps Werribee can if needed add a couple of extra (more than currently) bull paddocks on to the current complex in time they should have the room to do this if they wanted too. I am more concerned about the current lack of proper holdings at Dubbo and the sidelining of two breed-able adult cows.
Also it appears there is no movement currently to add a much needed cow barn which is counter productive seeing there is a real lack of adult breeding age females in the country its bad management and planning

That’s a good idea and I am hoping Werribee will consider something like this as the original plans for the elephant complex showed it divided into seven paddocks. It currently had five paddocks plus the fidget spinner which would have been a consequence of the project going over budget.

The zoo needed the elephants on site ASAP due to the calves growing too big for the shared crates; and the threat of EEHV from disruption to their lives (i.e they wanted the calves settled before the critical risk period.

The paddocks they have are sufficient for amending the numbers they have (even if Man Jai had survived, they would have had the second bull paddock for seperating him and Luk Chai long term); but as Roi-Yim matures, a new cohort inevitably adds males to their herd and a new breeding bull is brought in, they’ll need to consider adding additional capacity.

 

[Zoofan15]

Bulls can be kept in groups into adulthood, so long as there are sufficient spaces available for when they are in musth. Denver Zoo in the US does this beautifully and as a result are currently set up with a fully mature bull, a few young adult bulls and some adolescents. A few facilities designed like that would be unquestionably ideal for Australia so that they aren't limiting breeding out of fear of producing bulls.
Imo Monarto would be of most value as a breeding facility, as two breeding facilities with ~four (Assuming Anjalee produces a daughter and the other lines' daughters survive) matrilines will eventually become a hassle between space and naturally fracturing groups. Should Pak Boon fail to breed or produce only sons, I anticipate Werribee or Dubbo could easily send a line to Monarto.

I will note as well that the situation with Ongard breeding mostly lies in the fact that he is relatively young and that he is the sole companion for an aging cow. In even 4-5 years time I imagine he'll move on elswhere. The US is begining to implement bull swaps much more frequently than in previous years, so it is doubtless that valuable young bulls from Australia's lines will be sought after.

I will say as well that, although currently unlikely, it isn't entirely off the table for Australia to export a matriline should space become a huge legitimate issue and no additional facilities step up.

It was mentioned here recently that Dubbo has a young bull in a paddock each so if that is the case no wonder there is a space problem there

For some reason Dubbo have always struggled to maintain their bulls in cohesive groupings. Gung was imported as a juvenile and grew up without a mentor bull, so it’s possible he’s not as social as his son Luk Chai, who is considered a model bull. I suspect Gung’s erratic musth cycles (he had three musth cycles in a year at one stage) complicated his integration with the younger bulls, who showed unease around him at this time. The process of separation of bulls during musth you mention would be easier to manage if a bull has a regular (and therefore predictable) cycle.

Pathi Harn in turn has been a forceful, assertive bull. Luk Chai was more placid and Pathi Harn emerged as the more dominant bull despite Luk Chai being bigger/stronger. There was eight months between them; so I imagine Sabai (being six years younger than Pathi Harn) shows deference and their relationship is more amiable. They do have contact sessions together, but don’t live together full time like Luk Chai/Man Jai were able to.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Werribee should be in better luck regarding grouping their bulls together. Luk Chai is well-mannered and should have no issue being housed semi-permenantly with an eventual bachelor group and cow group. It would be nice to get such a system in operation sooner than later so that, hypothetically anyway, they could have one paddock for a bachelor herd, one for a bull on his own during musths and then the cows have what isn't in use by bulls. I hope that, in time, Australian holders shift their mindset away from feeling like they need to keep bulls seperate often, it's just going to lead to more problems.

 

[Zoofan15]

Werribee should be in better luck regarding grouping their bulls together. Luk Chai is well-mannered and should have no issue being housed semi-permenantly with an eventual bachelor group and cow group. It would be nice to get such a system in operation sooner than later so that, hypothetically anyway, they could have one paddock for a bachelor herd, one for a bull on his own during musths and then the cows have what isn't in use by bulls. I hope that, in time, Australian holders shift their mindset away from feeling like they need to keep bulls seperate often, it's just going to lead to more problems.

I agree. When I asked whether Luk Chai would transfer out when the new bull is brought in for breeding (anticipating a swap of Putra Mas/Luk Chai for example), the keeper said Luk Chai could well remain on site as a mentor to the new breeding bull (who would likely be younger). From this, I assume they have one of the Sydney bulls in mind.

Irregardless of which new bull is or isn’t brought in (he won’t be needed on site for breeding for at least 7-10 years), Luk Chai will have value as a mentor to Roi-Yim and any future bull calves bred at Werribee. I hope that from here, a cohesive bachelor grouping can be established.

The barns have been designed with movable walls to manage the herd fission-fusion. This can be used to seperate the bulls overnight if required; and also to manage Roi-Yim’s transition out of the matriachal herd.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Also it appears there is no movement currently to add a much needed cow barn which is counter productive seeing there is a real lack of adult breeding age females in the country its bad management and planning

I agree that the state of breeding individuals isn't looking good. The region's population can currently be divided as follows:

Breeding bulls (Proven, either naturally or via AI)
1.0 Putra Mas (WILD x WILD) - 0.1 living calves
1.0 Gung (UNK x UNK) - 2.0 living calves
1.0 Luk Chai (Gung x Thong Dee) - 1.2 living calves

Eligible Breeding cows (Have bred/are old enough to breed)
0.1 Pak Boon (UNK x UNK) - No living calves, last calf in 2017
0.1 Porntip (UNK x UNK) - 1.1 living calves, last calf in 2018
0.1 Dokkoon (Chow x Aom Moon) 0.2 living calves, last calf in 2022
0.1 Thong Dee (UNK x UNK) - 2.0 living calves, last calf in 2016
0.1 Num-Oi (Num Sek x Lampoon) - 0.1 living calves, last calf in 2023
0.1 Anjalee (Jayathu x Mayuri) - Currently pregnant with first calf
0.1 Christina (UNK x UNK) - No calves, never bred
0.1 Mali (Bong Su x Dokkoon) - 1.0 living calves, last calf in 2023
0.1 Raflesia (UNK x UNK) - No calves, never bred

Bachelor bulls (Unproven/not in breeding positions)
1.0 Pathi Harn (Bong Su x Porntip)
1.0 Kavi (Upali x SheRa)
1.0 Ashoka (Upali x Anak)
1.0 Sabai (Gung x Thong Dee)

Bull Calves
1.0 Roy-Yim (Luk Chai x Mali)

Cow Calves
0.1 Kanlaya (Putra Mas x Porntip)
0.1 Aiyara (Luk Chai x Dokkoon)
0.1 Kati (Luk Chai x Num Oi)

Post-Reproducive Cows
0.1 Mek Kapah (WILD x WILD) - No offspring
0.1 Burma (WILD x WILD) - No offspring
0.1 Permai (WILD x WILD) - No offspring
0.1 Megawati (Sidarta x Umri) - No offspring
0.1 Tang Mo (UNK x UNK) - No offspring
0.1 Kulab (Kaew x Thong Dee) - 1.0 living calves out of region
0.1 Widya (UNK x UNK) - No offspring

Assuming Thong Dee, Porntip and, unfortunately, Pak Boon never breed again, it puts the region with 4 realistic breeding cow canidates, with a potential 5th given Kanlaya survives to breed herself.

 

[Zoofan15]

I agree that the state of breeding individuals isn't looking good. The region's population can currently be divided as follows:

Breeding bulls (Proven, either naturally or via AI)
1.0 Putra Mas (WILD x WILD) - 0.1 living calves
1.0 Gung (UNK x UNK) - 2.0 living calves
1.0 Luk Chai (Gung x Thong Dee) - 1.2 living calves

Eligible Breeding cows (Have bred/are old enough to breed)
0.1 Pak Boon (UNK x UNK) - No living calves, last calf in 2017
0.1 Porntip (UNK x UNK) - 1.1 living calves, last calf in 2018
0.1 Dokkoon (Chow x Aom Moon) 0.2 living calves, last calf in 2022
0.1 Thong Dee (UNK x UNK) - 2.0 living calves, last calf in 2016
0.1 Num-Oi (Num Sek x Lampoon) - 0.1 living calves, last calf in 2023
0.1 Anjalee (Jayathu x Mayuri) - Currently pregnant with first calf
0.1 Christina (UNK x UNK) - No calves, never bred
0.1 Mali (Bong Su x Dokkoon) - 1.0 living calves, last calf in 2023
0.1 Raflesia (UNK x UNK) - No calves, never bred

Bachelor bulls (Unproven/not in breeding positions)
1.0 Pathi Harn (Bong Su x Porntip)
1.0 Kavi (Upali x SheRa)
1.0 Ashoka (Upali x Anak)
1.0 Sabai (Gung x Thong Dee)

Bull Calves
1.0 Roy-Yim (Luk Chai x Mali)

Cow Calves
0.1 Kanlaya (Putra Mas x Porntip)
0.1 Aiyara (Luk Chai x Dokkoon)
0.1 Kati (Luk Chai x Num Oi)

Post-Reproducive Cows
0.1 Mek Kapah (WILD x WILD) - No offspring
0.1 Burma (WILD x WILD) - No offspring
0.1 Permai (WILD x WILD) - No offspring
0.1 Megawati (Sidarta x Umri) - No offspring
0.1 Tang Mo (UNK x UNK) - No offspring
0.1 Kulab (Kaew x Thong Dee) - 1.0 living calves out of region
0.1 Widya (UNK x UNK) - No offspring

Assuming Thong Dee, Porntip and, unfortunately, Pak Boon never breed again, it puts the region with 4 realistic breeding cow canidates, with a potential 5th given Kanlaya survives to breed herself.

Werribee are the best placed by far with three viable cows (all with young calves and all expected to breed again within the next three years):

0.1 Dokkoon (1993)
0.1 Num-Oi (2001)
0.1 Mali (2010)

With a further two females coming through:

0.1 Aiyara (2022)
0.1 Kati (2023)

The reduction from three matrilines to two (loss of Kulab from the breeding pool) was unfortunate; but maintaining two matrilines is ambitious nonetheless and better than one, which is the situation for many zoos overseas (especially those who have had issues).

Dubbo are in a more uncertain position:

0.1 Anjalee (2006) will hopefully deliver a daughter shortly, but it could easily be a male calf.

0.1 Kanlaya (2018) will hopefully survive to adulthood, but there’s no guarantees she will and there’s no plans to breed from her until she’s 14 years old.

This is why I consider it unwise to retire Porntip from the population. There’s no guarantees Kanlaya will survive/breed and by the time her viability as a breeding cow can be ascertained (circa 2030), it would have been 12 years since Porntip last delivered a calf (and therefore two later to try and breed from her again).

Australia Zoo, I’ll be honest I don’t pay much attention to. They operate outside of the regional breeding programme for elephants, so what they do or don’t do has no implication on the rest of the population. They talked about importing a bull years ago; but nothing has ever come of this and nobody on here seems optimistic it ever will.

 

[Zorro]

Werribee are the best placed by far with three viable cows (all with young calves and all expected to breed again within the next three years):

0.1 Dokkoon (1993)
0.1 Num-Oi (2001)
0.1 Mali (2010)

With a further two females coming through:

0.1 Aiyara (2022)
0.1 Kati (2023)

The reduction from three matrilines to two (loss of Kulab from the breeding pool) was unfortunate; but maintaining two matrilines is ambitious nonetheless and better than one, which is the situation for many zoos overseas (especially those who have had issues).

Dubbo are in a more uncertain position:

0.1 Anjalee (2006) will hopefully deliver a daughter shortly, but it could easily be a male calf.

0.1 Kanlaya (2018) will hopefully survive to adulthood, but there’s no guarantees she will and there’s no plans to breed from her until she’s 14 years old.

This is why I consider it unwise to retire Porntip from the population. There’s no guarantees Kanlaya will survive/breed and by the time her viability as a breeding cow can be ascertained (circa 2030), it would have been 12 years since Porntip last delivered a calf (and therefore two later to try and breed from her again).

Australia Zoo, I’ll be honest I don’t pay much attention to. They operate outside of the regional breeding programme for elephants, so what they do or don’t do has no implication on the rest of the population. They talked about importing a bull years ago; but nothing has ever come of this and nobody on here seems optimistic it ever will.

It is unfortunate that Australia zoo has decided to go down a different path with having 4 imported cows which would of been a major asset if they were the same sub species as the rest of the holders in the region. Even though there was a lot of noise to begin with about how captive breeding was important it seems less and less likely as time goes by that that was the long term plan, The zoo could of imported 1/3 at the start which makes one believe how serious was the intention to breed at the start?. Also as far as I am aware there is no provision there to house a bull with a bull barn or yard. With the large area and off exhibit space available AZ would have fitted very well into the overall regions breeding program

 

[Zoofan15]

It is unfortunate that Australia zoo has decided to go down a different path with having 4 imported cows which would of been a major asset if they were the same sub species as the rest of the holders in the region. Even though there was a lot of noise to begin with about how captive breeding was important it seems less and less likely as time goes by that that was the long term plan, The zoo could of imported 1/3 at the start which makes one believe how serious was the intention to breed at the start?. Also as far as I am aware there is no provision there to house a bull with a bull barn or yard. With the large area and off exhibit space available AZ would have fitted very into the overall regions breeding program

You’re correct that they have no bull barn/yard. That was initially given as the reason for importing only cows, but they stated it was their intention to build bull facilities and import two bulls (something that has never happen). Had they imported two unrelated (Sumatran) bulls, they would have been self-sufficient for decades without requiring further imports.

It undoubtedly would have been better for the region had Australia Zoo dedicated the equivalent resources to the Indian/Sri Lankan subspecies of elephant. Even if they didn’t wish to import from overseas, it wouldn’t have taken long for surplus to come up in the region. Had they imported Burma and Anjalee from Auckland Zoo, I’m sure they would have been provided with a bull from within the region (probably Putra Mas or Pathi Harn). Dubbo could have then bred again with Porntip (and potentially Thong Dee).

While I applaud Monarto Safari Park for taking on their four cows (three of which have no application to the breeding programme), I can’t help but feel it was overly ambitious to expect a cohesive herd to from these four cows. I hope long term they’re successful in integrating them; but it would have been so much more productive to have brought in Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Tang Mo and gone from there.

 

[Jambo]

I will note as well that the situation with Ongard breeding mostly lies in the fact that he is relatively young and that he is the sole companion for an aging cow. In even 4-5 years time I imagine he'll move on elswhere. The US is begining to implement bull swaps much more frequently than in previous years, so it is doubtless that valuable young bulls from Australia's lines will be sought after.

We were always told at Melbourne that Ongard would get females once the older elephants passed. That was Miami's plan - hence his transfer there. I'm assuming it still is, and they're waiting for Nelly to pass.

A son of Gung's ie. Sabai would be very valuable to the North American population being completely unrelated to Ongard. He has little value regionally, with his full brother already breeding down at Werribee. Roi at Werribee would be another candidate, but probably unlikely given Ongard's his maternal uncle.

I've read that Werribee plans to hold their bulls in a similar fashion, which will limit their capacity as well.
I've never understood why Australia manages their bulls this way when other facilities have proven that bulls thrive in social settings. I truthfully see very little reason to keep mature bulls seperate from cow groups unless they're proving to be too rough on the cows/calves. Especially in a large complex like Werribee, they would have the oppertunity to be as close or far from each other as they choose.

Werribee have the space to manage a bachelor grouping alongside their breeding herd, so it's do-able if they wish.

To be honest, I think it's just been bad luck thus far. Dubbo's attempted bachelor groupings have been thwarted by individual personalities. Melbourne grouped Bong Su and Ongard together for quite a few years successfully, and later Luk Chai and Man Jai on a rotational basis. And unfortunately due to Man Jai and Bong Su's respective passings, both pairings weren't able to be tested long term

Sydney also have still managed to keep their now adult brothers together up until this point, so it seems like Dubbo have just had unfortunate luck with the bulls they have which would be better suited to breeding situations.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

Roi at Werribee would be another candidate, but probably unlikely given Ongard's his maternal uncle.

The US does has fewer problems with utilizing closer related animals at the same time in their breeding program, so truthfully I don't think Roi-Yim is totally off the table as a potential export. Especially given that he doesn't have any peer bulls in the population right now, the closest bull to his age being Sabai who imo has very high potential to be exported himself. While I do agree Sabai is the most obvious choice here, I wouldn't count Roi out!

While I applaud Monarto Safari Park for taking on their four cows (three of which have no application to the breeding programme), I can’t help but feel it was overly ambitious to expect a cohesive herd to from these four cows. I hope long term they’re successful in integrating them; but it would have been so much more productive to have brought in Pak Boon, Thong Dee and Tang Mo and gone from there.

It would be nice for Australia to have a designated "retirement facility" that could hold the remaining post-reproductive cows (that aren't integrated into an existing herd setting) and go from there, and I would hate to see Monarto become that when they would be most valuable as a third breeding facility. Monarto's plan is nice on paper, but with Putra Mas being evidently hard to transfer and Permai and Burma being so socially stunted...it's just a difficult situation overall.

Despite Putra Mas' value I feel like bringing in a bull like Pathi Harn alongside Pak Boon would've been a better choice to start off. At this point it doesn't matter what bull she's paired with, but she needs to get pregnant asap. Having one calf of lower genetic value would be absolutely worth ensuring they have a breeding cow to work with.

 

[Zoofan15]

The US does has fewer problems with utilizing closer related animals at the same time in their breeding program, so truthfully I don't think Roi-Yim is totally off the table as a potential export. Especially given that he doesn't have any peer bulls in the population right now, the closest bull to his age being Sabai who imo has very high potential to be exported himself. While I do agree Sabai is the most obvious choice here, I wouldn't count Roi out!


It would be nice for Australia to have a designated "retirement facility" that could hold the remaining post-reproductive cows (that aren't integrated into an existing herd setting) and go from there, and I would hate to see Monarto become that when they would be most valuable as a third breeding facility. Monarto's plan is nice on paper, but with Putra Mas being evidently hard to transfer and Permai and Burma being so socially stunted...it's just a difficult situation overall.

Despite Putra Mas' value I feel like bringing in a bull like Pathi Harn alongside Pak Boon would've been a better choice to start off. At this point it doesn't matter what bull she's paired with, but she needs to get pregnant asap. Having one calf of lower genetic value would be absolutely worth ensuring they have a breeding cow to work with.

From what I’ve heard, it’s been Permai (1989) who’s been the problem at Monarto. She came to Australia as a three year old and the extent of her socialisation was living in a small herd which consisted of her and the elderly Tricia from 2007 onwards (until Tricia’s death in 2022). Permai didn’t cope well with Tricia’s death, which may well have compounded her issues.

Burma was imported by Auckland Zoo as an eight year old and lived with Kashin for her first 19 years at Auckland Zoo. They took two years to bond, but this was attributed to Kashin who was an introverted elephant. Burma was a friendly, playful cow and the zoo’s elephant keepers went to great lengths to source a companion for her that would be a good fit for her personality. They couldn’t have chosen better in Anjalee, who instantly formed a good relationship with Burma. Anjalee has similarly formed a good relationship with the Dubbo cows upon her arrival at their facility.

Pak Boon and Tang Mo have lived together since 2006 and have a good relationship. Whether that’s affecting their integration with Burma/Permai I don’t know (i.e. whether they’re not motivated to build relationships when they have each other).

I agree that providing Pak Boon with the opportunity to breed with a proven bull would be preferable given the time constraints. Had Thong Dee been transfered to Dubbo, they could have even ensured she was in calf prior to her departure.