Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Jambo]

Pak Boon is the most valuable cow in the region and Monarto are apparently intending to breed (as we suspected all along), so I’d be surprised if they didn’t have a back up plan in mind should Putra Mas fail to breed her naturally.

@Jambo makes an excellent point about AI not being undertaken with Pak Boon before. Although there’s no reason to believe this was for any other reason than they had a bull on site to naturally mate her, it should be noted that some cows are uncomfortable with this invasive procedure. This was the case for Burma, when AI was investigated at Auckland Zoo as a means for her to conceive (in her younger years).

I’m tempted to say the best back up option to AI is bringing in Gung or Pathi Harn. The Dublin bulls cohabit together and transferring one out (even on loan) could disrupt their bond. Gung is a proven, capable breeder and Sabai could remain at Dubbo to cover Kanlaya in the future.

On the note of AI, it's also worth mentioning she may not even be trained for AI. As for the reasons you've stated, there was never any reason too. The same went with Thong Dee. If Pak Boon has never been trained for the procedure, it could take a while to train her for it and that doesn't guarantee she'll respond well to it.

In the scenario her and Putra Mas fail to breed naturally, I doubt they will be able to turn to AI in this case as easy as it may have been say ten or fifteen years ago when the Berlin team was travelling the world assisting with procedures. Acquiring a bull may be more straight forward - whether it's Gung or one of the Sydney bulls.

It’s easy to see one of Sydney’s bulls becoming Werribee’s next breeding bull after Luk Chai sires a second cohort of calves to Dokkoon, Num-Oi and Mali once they’re settled into the new complex. The only other options are Luk Chai’s brother and father; Pathi Harn (half brother of Mali); or Putra Mas (unknown breeding capabilities).

I can say for sure that Dubbo won't be sending either of their three bulls down for obvious reasons. I chatted to a keeper about Putra Mas heading across and he acknowledged it was a possibility down the line depending on what occurs at Monarto. Imo the two Sydney bulls are the only options if Werribee weren't to import from overseas. Considering their next cohort of calves will likely be welcomed circa 2028, they would be looking to acquire a bull at least five ish years down the line so they can commence breeding again.

 

[Zoofan15]

1. Confirmation of elephant breeding plans? Whether a Putra Mas x Pak Boon pairing is planned? If A.I. will be undertaken with Putra Mas if natural insemination fails?

• I was unable to find an elephant keeper to speak with, as they were understandably busy managing Permai and Burma’s initial introduction. However, on my morning bus tour, I witnessed a large team meeting out in the exhibit space, involving all Monarto keepers, (former Auckland keepers) and Perth keepers. The meeting was headed by Andrew Coers, who kindly turned Burma for the bus to see. I assume they were discussing introduction plans (*).
• Later, I briefly glimpsed a large, dark swaying shape in the open barn, which I assume was Permai.
• As a result, all the elephant-related information I received came from secondary sources: a volunteer at the elephant exhibit and the Black Rhino keeper.
• The volunteer initially stated there would be "no breeding at this stage" (I assume she meant within the next year and a half (*)). However, she also mentioned that "Monarto would inevitably have calves." I'm unsure what she meant by that and tbh she seemed a little uninformed—she even forgot Pak Boon and Tang Mo’s names—which made me skeptical of her reliability. She also speculated "With the way the Australian population is going we could receive young elephants from another zoo" (*)
• Conversely, the Black Rhino keeper confirmed that Monarto intends to breed from Putra Mas. He stated that Monarto would attempt to breed him with both Pak Boon and Tang Mo: "They will, though, with the Taronga girls." The mention of Tang Mo was interesting—I suspect it was a misunderstanding (*), as he does not work directly with elephants and may not be aware of her previous health issues. That said, he did know her age and that she has a playful temperament, suggesting he has some level of familiarity.
• He also mentioned that a few rhino keepers from around the park are being trained and 'upgraded' to elephant keepers over the next few months, which I found interesting.
• When I asked about artificial insemination, he was unaware of any plans and asked how did I even know about that. He guessed that if natural breeding with Putra Mas and Pak Boon/Tang Mo failed, Monarto would likely transfer in another "young female" from elsewhere in Australia (*). However, he hadn’t heard anything about AI and thought it was "unlikely" (*).
• I found it interesting that both he and the volunteer mentioned bringing in young female elephants like they were dime a dozen right now! Likewise, there were no fears or mentions of Putra Mas' ability to naturally inseminate (he probably was unaware).
• Another fascinating detail: he mentioned unique interactions between Induna (the black rhino) and Burma, noting that they had been sniffing the air and even vocalizing to each other. Since both species are in eyesight, Monarto plans to build an interactive enrichment fence between the back of the elephant barn and the Black Rhino exhibit, allowing face-to-face encounters. Dung swapping is also planned for enrichment purposes.

Thank you for this much appreciated update on Monarto’s potential breeding plans @Swanson02. I will note on behalf of @Swanson02 that he emphasised in the Monarto thread that * denotes speculation on behalf of staff, so as not to take what he has reported as cast-iron guarantees it will happen. This is merely what he was told.

————————————

Regarding the comment of no breeding at this stage, I’m inclined to believe this refers to the simple fact that there won’t be a calf at Monarto until at least 2027/2028. The average visitor is concerned about the here and now and the fact is, Monarto won’t have a bull on site for at least five months, followed by a 22 month gestation. The keeper myself and @steveroberts spoke to at Taronga in November did express doubt that the Monarto complex is calf-proofed; but there’s no reason this couldn’t be undertaken over the next two years once the complex is completed to sufficient standard to receive the 1.4 adults.

I noticed Taronga’s socials also referred to the Taronga cows (emphasis on plural) playing a key role in the breeding programme at Monarto. I took this to be a throwaway comment as myself and @steveroberts were told on our visit that Taronga had been advised by the Berlin team that breeding from Tang Mo was a no go. I would be very surprised if they attempted to breed from her (combined with the fact she’s nulliparous at 25 years). After natural mating with Gung failed, AI was undertaken with her failing to carry the pregnancy to term. I don’t believe a definitive cause for the latter was ever identified; but during AI, it was noted she has a narrow reproductive tract - likely explaining why she was uncomfortable allowing Gung to naturally breed her.

Bringing in additional cows is an interesting concept. About the only possibility I can foresee here would be to transfer in Thong Dee from Dubbo. I’ve said all along that she should be accompanying Pak Boon and Tang Mo to Monarto given Dubbo has limited capacity to breed and she will likely be retired from the breeding programme otherwise. If brought to Monarto, she could provide a breeding line (ideally in addition to Pak Boon). Though the pregnancy hormones could impact upon introductions, it could even be worth breeding her with Pathi Harn prior to transfer to produce a calf unrelated to both Putra Mas (and any future calves he sired to Pak Boon).

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

If this were to be the case I'd assume they'd have to resort to AI. Although it's worth mentioning Pak Boon's never been artificially inseminated as of yet to my knowledge. AI with Putra Mas has proved successful in the past so I don't see why they won't utilise him again in that scenario, especially considering his genetic value.

In the unlikely case they don't wish to use AI, there's a lot of ways they could go. They could chose to bring in an unproven bull (like Pathi Harn or the Sydney bulls). A calf from either of the Sydney brothers and Pak Boon would be especially valuable to the region. Another scenario is Dubbo choses to send Gung away in favour of acquiring one of the Sydney bulls. Gung would be a proven bull and has mated Pak Boon in the past. He is, however, quite well represented and this may minimise Pak Boon's chances of getting recommendations for multiple calves.

I would like to be proven wrong ..., but honestly I think that with Pak Boon the interbirth interval has already been too long. Secondly, I am a little at odds and puzzled that apparently no-one has taken the time yet to evaluate Putra Mas or said Pak Boon whether they are actually fertile / cycling (in case of the cow)....?!!!

 

[Yassa]

How do you know that the cycle of the female has not been monitored? I don’t think Information like this is public. By the way, even if she is still cycling, that is nit a guarantee that she can still get pregnant.

Regarding the bull, taking a sperm sample is a rather invasive procedure, and a bad result does NOT equal infertility, especially not if the bull has not mated in a long time. And a good result certainly says nothing about a bulls ability to mate naturally. Therefore, I don’t see a reason to bother with this.

 

[Zoofan15]

I would like to be proven wrong ..., but honestly I think that with Pak Boon the interbirth interval has already been too long. Secondly, I am a little at odds and puzzled that apparently no-one has taken the time yet to evaluate Putra Mas or said Pak Boon whether they are actually fertile / cycling (in case of the cow)....?!!!

Putra Mas has previously sired two calves via AI, but his natural breeding capabilities are unknown. At least one mating was recorded while he was at Perth Zoo, so I’m optimistic with a proven natural breeding cow, there will be success.

The longest birth interval in the region to date between calves has been Dokkoon, giving birth to Man Jai in 2013 and Aiyara in 2022. Pak Boon has gone nearly eight years without delivering a calf, which isn’t ideal; but it is what it is and there’s a chance she’s still viable.

 

[Swanson02]

When was the last time breeding was attempted with Tang Mo. She seemed pretty young and its possible she wasn't sexually mature? Or has a similar condition to anjalee?

Her tract may have just been narrow due to her age? She has grown and matured since obviously

I know 25 is past the preferable age of first conception. But it's not too far...

I just found it odd that the black rhino keeper repeatedly included her in breeding talks. I assume he'd received some briefing regarding the transfer. Rhino keepers work in the same vicinity as the Elephants

 

[Zoofan15]

When was the last time breeding was attempted with Tang Mo. She seemed pretty young and its possible she wasn't sexually mature? Or has a similar condition to anjalee?

Her tract may have just been narrow due to her age? She has grown and matured since obviously

I know 25 is past the preferable age of first conception. But it's not too far...

I just found it odd that the black rhino keeper repeatedly included her in breeding talks. I assume he'd received some briefing regarding the transfer. Rhino keepers work in the same vicinity as the Elephants

The unsuccessful pregnancy (and I believe the last time they tried) was in 2012, which was when Tang Mo was 13 years old. It was covered on Wild Life at the Zoo and the episode in question revealed a positive pregnancy test, but the pregnancy failed to progress - I’m not sure whether it was a chemical pregnancy; or whether it was an early miscarriage.

This was the episode write up:

Episode 6 - Elephants, Devils and Seals - Wild Life at the Zoo - ABC TV

Gung is Taronga's male elephant. He's sired 2 calves in the last 3 years. But he's had no success with Tang Mo the female Asian elephant. The mating attempts occur at Gung's bachelor pad a short walk from Tang Mo's exhibit. It's important for her long term health that she conceives (female elephants that don't have calves before they are 20 can have reproductive problems after that). It's also vital for the zoo's continuing conservation breeding programme for this endangered species. With no sign of pregnancy the zoo brings in German experts to try artificial insemination.

Tang Mo seemed to mature quite early. Upon import at the age of seven, she was already comparable in height to Porntip and Pak Boon. She was apparently very interested in Gung in the early years, which overwhelmed the smaller bull (he preferred the shy Thong Dee). As he grew and became motivated to breed the cows, he was observed mounting Tang Mo, but then she’d move away. It’s possible her narrow reproductive tract made mating uncomfortable for her. If she wouldn’t allow Gung (a practiced natural breeder) to mate her, I sadly don’t hold out much hope for a less experienced bull like Putra Mas.

As per my post above, I remain of the opinion the best option is to transfer Thong Dee across from Dubbo (either pregnant via Pathi Harn) or in the hope she can still conceive just over eight years since her last birth. Thong Dee and Pak Boon are both proven natural breeders and would be Putra Mas’ best shot at breeding naturally.

 

[Jambo]

The unsuccessful pregnancy (and I believe the last time they tried) was in 2012, which was when Tang Mo was 13 years old. It was covered on Wild Life at the Zoo and the episode in question revealed a positive pregnancy test, but the pregnancy failed to progress - I’m not sure whether it was a chemical pregnancy; or whether it was an early miscarriage.

It was an early miscarriage and this occurs as a result of the cows themselves not being ready to go through with the pregnancy. I'm wondering whether the narrowed reproductive tract may have also caused some problems during the early stages of pregnancy (such as pain) which may have resulted in the self termination of the pregnancy in its early stages.

 

[Luke899]

The unsuccessful pregnancy (and I believe the last time they tried) was in 2012, which was when Tang Mo was 13 years old. It was covered on Wild Life at the Zoo and the episode in question revealed a positive pregnancy test, but the pregnancy failed to progress - I’m not sure whether it was a chemical pregnancy; or whether it was an early miscarriage.

This was the episode write up:

Episode 6 - Elephants, Devils and Seals - Wild Life at the Zoo - ABC TV

Gung is Taronga's male elephant. He's sired 2 calves in the last 3 years. But he's had no success with Tang Mo the female Asian elephant. The mating attempts occur at Gung's bachelor pad a short walk from Tang Mo's exhibit. It's important for her long term health that she conceives (female elephants that don't have calves before they are 20 can have reproductive problems after that). It's also vital for the zoo's continuing conservation breeding programme for this endangered species. With no sign of pregnancy the zoo brings in German experts to try artificial insemination.

Tang Mo seemed to mature quite early. Upon import at the age of seven, she was already comparable in height to Porntip and Pak Boon. She was apparently very interested in Gung in the early years, which overwhelmed the smaller bull (he preferred the shy Thong Dee). As he grew and became motivated to breed the cows, he was observed mounting Tang Mo, but then she’d move away. It’s possible her narrow reproductive tract made mating uncomfortable for her. If she wouldn’t allow Gung (a practiced natural breeder) to mate her, I sadly don’t hold out much hope for a less experienced bull like Putra Mas.

As per my post above, I remain of the opinion the best option is to transfer Thong Dee across from Dubbo (either pregnant via Pathi Harn) or in the hope she can still conceive just over eight years since her last birth. Thong Dee and Pak Boon are both proven natural breeders and would be Putra Mas’ best shot at breeding naturally.

As in transfer Thong Dee to monarto in addition to Tang Mo and Pak Boon? So they'd have 5 cows?

Might be too much to handle,

 

[Zoofan15]

As in transfer Thong Dee to monarto in addition to Tang Mo and Pak Boon? So they'd have 5 cows?

Might be too much to handle,

Yes. As detailed in @Swanson02 ’s update (see my reply on the second post of this page), he mentioned staff speculated of the possibility of bringing in additional cows. Realistically, Thong Dee is the only (viable) free agent. She has no daughters in Dubbo’s herd and they don’t have the capacity to breed from her (as well as the other cows).

Thong Dee has never shown ambition to become a high ranking elephant. She had a good relationship with Tang Mo at Taronga and I believe she could assimilate easily into the Monarto herd. Reintroducing her to Pak Boon and Tang Mo would likely go smoothly; and I don’t foresee issues between her and Burma/Permai.

There is the fact Thong Dee hasn’t given birth since 2016 to consider. Especially if there’s doubt over whether Putra Mas can breed, it would appear wise to transfer her over once pregnancy has been achieved at Dubbo (ideally to Pathi Harn so as not to risk a third son out of Gung/Thong Dee).

 

[Luke899]

Yes. As detailed in @Swanson02 ’s update (see my reply on the second post of this page), he mentioned staff speculated of the possibility of bringing in additional cows. Realistically, Thong Dee is the only (viable) free agent. She has no daughters in Dubbo’s herd and they don’t have the capacity to breed from her (as well as the other cows).

Thong Dee has never shown ambition to become a high ranking elephant. She had a good relationship with Tang Mo at Taronga and I believe she could assimilate easily into the Monarto herd. Reintroducing her to Pak Boon and Tang Mo would likely go smoothly; and I don’t foresee issues between her and Burma/Permai.

There is the fact Thong Dee hasn’t given birth since 2016 to consider. Especially if there’s doubt over whether Putra Mas can breed, it would appear wise to transfer her over once pregnancy has been achieved at Dubbo (ideally to Pathi Harn so as not to risk a third son out of Gung/Thong Dee).

So if, lets say everything went as wished and both cows were pregnant, Monarto could surpass 10 animals in that facility. Might have to transfer one out or expand the facility again.

How many calves could we expect from Thong Dee if she is transfered to monarto and has a successful pregnancy

 

[Zoofan15]

So if, lets say everything went as wished and both cows were pregnant, Monarto could surpass 10 animals in that facility. Might have to transfer one out or expand the facility again.

How many calves could we expect from Thong Dee if she is transfered to monarto and has a successful pregnancy

If Thong Dee transferred to Monarto and both her and Pak Boon had a calf, I would expect to see breeding scaled back. At most, I would then anticipate for them each to have one more calf beyond that.

In the event Thong Dee transferred to Monarto pregnant and the resulting calf was female (the ideal scenario), they might even cease breeding from her at that point - with the intention of generating succession through her lineage via that calf (and any female calves born to Pak Boon).

Calves from either/or are important for succession; but genetically speaking, it would be more important to breed from Pak Boon, who is genetically valuable. All going well, Thong Dee could have another three descendants via Luk Chai within a few years at Werribee (in addition to the three calves he’s already sired).

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

How do you know that the cycle of the female has not been monitored? I don’t think Information like this is public. By the way, even if she is still cycling, that is nit a guarantee that she can still get pregnant.

Regarding the bull, taking a sperm sample is a rather invasive procedure, and a bad result does NOT equal infertility, especially not if the bull has not mated in a long time. And a good result certainly says nothing about a bulls ability to mate naturally. Therefore, I don’t see a reason to bother with this.

Cows' cycling:
Strictly speaking you have a point and I do not know for sure if any monitoring of the cows and their cycles is done routinely. However, the vibe of all the discourse here has taken Tang Mo or any other cows for a definite without any substantive and verifiable evidence that all the cows' cycles are/have been monitored (already). If anyone has more information to that effect, I certainly would appreciate hearing about it!

Bull apt Y/N for breeding: The bull for the herd has never achieved a pregnancy by natural mating - whether that is a definite behavioral non-breeder is not written in stone ..., personally I think it is to do with the fact that the herd at Perth Zoo grew up from them all being youngsters on one import and growing up like siblings (allthough ... this is strictly speaking my speculation only). The bull has only ever been used for AI - which in itself is an invasive and stressful procedure -. I can see and for a good part follow your rationale, just I would hope Monarto have a crush cage structure on-site for vet treatment of both bulls as well as cows .... - I would assume it would then be possible to monitor and take samples (e.g. blood plus semen samples, ultra-sound .... vet examinations/keeper training/ foot care et cetera, et cetera)

 

[Jambo]

There is the fact Thong Dee hasn’t given birth since 2016 to consider. Especially if there’s doubt over whether Putra Mas can breed, it would appear wise to transfer her over once pregnancy has been achieved at Dubbo (ideally to Pathi Harn so as not to risk a third son out of Gung/Thong Dee).

Thong Dee really needs to get pregnant asap if they want to give her a chance at breeding again. It's now been over eight years since she last gave birth so time is really ticking.

Pathi Harn *would* hopefully be the bull they select to mate her. With him soon being fifteen he is reaching the age where he shouldn't have any problems with that. In the unlikely event he couldn't get the job done, I do wonder whether they'd consider risking breeding her with Gung once again and hope for a female calf. Unlikely I'd say given another bull from those two would have zero application to the regional breeding program.

 

[Zoofan15]

Cows' cycling:
Strictly speaking you have a point and I do not know for sure if any monitoring of the cows and their cycles is done routinely. However, the vibe of all the discourse here has taken Tang Mo or any other cows for a definite without any substantive and verifiable evidence that all the cows' cycles are/have been monitored (already). If anyone has more information to that effect, I certainly would appreciate hearing about it!

Study on Ovarian Cycles of Elephants in Australian Zoos

I came across this fascinating journal article which details a study that took place from 2006-2012 on the ovarian cycles of the elephants in Melbourne and Taronga’s herds:

Cyclic changes in cortisol across the estrous cycle in parous and nulliparous Asian elephants - PMC

Reference keys:

F1 = Dokkoon (1993)
F2 = Kulab (2000)
F3 = Mek Kepah (1973)
F4 = Num-Oi (2001)
F5 = Pak Boon (1992)
F6 = Porntip (1992)
F7 = Tang Mo (1999)
F8 = Thong Dee (1997)

The whole article is worth a read, but here are some of the highlights:

Porntip, Dokkoon, Kulab and Num-Oi all conceived on the first AI attempt:

Six females successfully conceived on the first attempt, further demonstrating that these females exhibited healthy reproductive function.

Regarding unsuccessful attempts to breed from Tang Mo (2009-2012):

One of the females (F7) had scheduled introductions to a mature male on the days surrounding ovulation (as determined from hormone monitoring). These introductions occurred every cycle for the last 3 years of the study (ten cycles), with the exception of one cycle when AI was attempted. Since the study concluded, she has continued to have regular mating introductions and a second AI attempt, but she has still not conceived.

Failure of Mek Kepah to conceive:

The oldest female (F3) was housed with a male at least 50% of the time for 28 years (until the arrival of the other females from Thailand). She was diagnosed with uterine tumors shortly before the initiation of the study. A gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) antagonist was used to suppress ovarian activity in this female 1.5 years into the study.

 

[Pertinax]

Why is there a big gap between the arrival dates of the two elephants from Perth zoo?

 

[Zoofan15]

Why is there a big gap between the arrival dates of the two elephants from Perth zoo?

Putra Mas is currently in musth, which will go on until at least April/May 2025, with crate training resuming once his musth cycle has completed. Protocol is adapted during this time, including that his male keepers don’t work with him.

Permai’s transfer was brought forward to provide Burma with companionship.

 

[Jambo]

Why is there a big gap between the arrival dates of the two elephants from Perth zoo?

Permai (the cow) has been without a female companion for two years now so they've made the decision to send her slightly earlier than usual to Monarto where they also have a cow (from Auckland) who's also been by herself for a similar period. It's for both females best interests.

Putra Mas (the bull) suffers from extended periods of musth. As a result he can't be moved during this period, and this means he won't be able to be transferred across until mid to later this year.

Initially the plan was to send both together but with Permai completing her crate training with flying colors, the decision was made to fast track her move for her own benefit.

 

[Jambo]

Study on Ovarian Cycles of Elephants in Australian Zoos

I came across this fascinating journal article which details a study that took place from 2006-2012 on the ovarian cycles of the elephants in Melbourne and Taronga’s herds:

Cyclic changes in cortisol across the estrous cycle in parous and nulliparous Asian elephants - PMC

Reference keys:

F1 = Dokkoon (1993)
F2 = Kulab (2000)
F3 = Mek Kepah (1973)
F4 = Num-Oi (2001)
F5 = Pak Boon (1992)
F6 = Porntip (1992)
F7 = Tang Mo (1999)
F8 = Thong Dee (1997)

The whole article is worth a read, but here are some of the highlights:

Porntip, Dokkoon, Kulab and Num-Oi all conceived on the first AI attempt:

Six females successfully conceived on the first attempt, further demonstrating that these females exhibited healthy reproductive function.

Regarding unsuccessful attempts to breed from Tang Mo (2009-2012):

One of the females (F7) had scheduled introductions to a mature male on the days surrounding ovulation (as determined from hormone monitoring). These introductions occurred every cycle for the last 3 years of the study (ten cycles), with the exception of one cycle when AI was attempted. Since the study concluded, she has continued to have regular mating introductions and a second AI attempt, but she has still not conceived.

Failure of Mek Kepah to conceive:

The oldest female (F3) was housed with a male at least 50% of the time for 28 years (until the arrival of the other females from Thailand). She was diagnosed with uterine tumors shortly before the initiation of the study. A gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) antagonist was used to suppress ovarian activity in this female 1.5 years into the study.

I thought it would be interesting to note the difference in cycling with a few of the cows. The average cycle is around three ish months, however it's been known to differentiate. Some cows cycle more irregularly and others cycle more often, whereas others don't.

Out of the eight cows apart of the study; five cycle roughly on a normal basis (every three or so months). However with three; not so much. Keep in mind, it's only a small sample size though.

Pak Boon; cycled ten times in 2.4 years. So roughly cycling just under every three months. But only slightly (by about a few weeks)!

Tang Mo; cycled 21 times in 5.7 years. So she cycled just over every three months (by about a few weeks too).

Thong Dee; cycled 5 times in 1.1 years. Thong Dee had the biggest discrepancy of cycling; five times in just over a year (thirteen ish months!). Therefore meaning she cycled just over every two and a half months. This probably helped with her ability to conceive quite quickly.

 

[Tiger91]

I wonder given Tang Mo's age whether they will allow her to try and breed. While she never conceived with Gung, she allowed him to mount her. With Putra Mas, if he takes to natural breeding which there is no reason to think he wont given he mounted the females in his younger years. Whether they will contracept her or see if anything comes of it.
Being older and not having given birth if pregnancy did occur it would be interesting to see with her hips etc.