When Putra Mas arrives at Monarto I believe it very unlikely that he will ever leave there at this stage I hope he just arrives there in good shape!
Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025
- Thread starter Zoofan15
- Start date
That’s entirely possible. He’s 36 years old and has a history of being challenging to crate train (though I understand the progress he’s made at Perth in recent months has been encouraging). Monarto may well be his final destination.
If so, I hope in the event he fails to breed naturally with Pak Boon, that consideration is given to undertaking AI. However Werribee will surely want to bring in a new bull long term as Aiyara/Kati reach maturity as doing AI with four cows isn’t cost effective or efficient.
What could have worked for the next cohort is:
Dokkoon: Breed naturally with Luk Chai
Num Oi: AI with Putra Mas
Mali: Breed naturally with Luk Chai
This would produce a calf (offspring of Putra Mas/Num-Oi) that’s unrelated to the other two calves in this cohort - and Aiyara/Roi-Yim.
Last edited:
I agree as it is expensive but for the good of the herd should bite the bullet and at least try to get calfs from him while they have the opportunity
It would be especially valuable to breed Putra Mas with founder cows. He’s already sired calves to Num-Oi (non-surviving) and Porntip (surviving). It doesn’t appear Dubbo will be breeding from Porntip or Thong Dee again, so the best bet is to breed Putra Mas with Pak Boon at Monarto; or failing that, with Num-Oi at Werribee, who as detailed above, could produce a calf unrelated to Dokkoon’s descendants.
It’s so beneficial having calves born into a herd that are unrelated to each other (as was the intention for the trio of Luk Chai, Pathi Harn and Tukta). It gives options to play with as the calves mature; and in Taronga/Dubbo’s case, the calves would have all reached maturity while their respective mothers were still young enough to breed.
We can realistically expect Dokkoon and Num-Oi (Zoos Victoria’s founder females) to retire within the decade - Dokkoon likely after one more calf (her third surviving); and Num-Oi after two more calves (her second and third surviving). Num-Oi is eight years younger than Dokkoon and has only one surviving calf versus Dokkoon who already has two, including a daughter who has now bred.
Just my own view I believe giving Putra Mas breeding should be given as a high priority!
I agree. What’s really exciting is with Pak Boon being an unrepresented founder, should they prove a viable breeding pair, then there’s a strong possibility we’ll see Pak Boon produce three calves at natural birth intervals (something we’ve never seen in the region; or would he likely to see again).
Werribee are artificially extending their birth intervals to circa five years; and Dubbo will probably aim for seven years between Anjalee’s calf due this year and her next calf - aligning with Kanlaya producing her first calf at 14 years of age as is the current plan.
I would have liked to have been privy at the meetings/talks with all the elephant staff at Monarto zoo with having the staff from 3 different zoos
I would have liked to have been privy at the meetings/talks with all the elephant staff at Monarto zoo with having the staff from 3 different zoos
It would be fascinating to know whether any consideration was given to transferring over Thong Dee from Dubbo to boost Monarto’s breeding potential. It’s obvious that Taronga/Dubbo would have been willing to relinquish Pak Boon/Tang Mo as neither of these cows had met Anjalee and it would have disrupted their stable herd; but removing Thong Dee would have caused minimal disruption considering she has no matriline.
I’d also be interested to know (now we have confirmation Monarto intend to breed) whether they have a contingency (i.e. AI) if that doesn’t work out. In an ideal world, they’d give it 1-2 years before ruling out Putra Mas mating Pak Boon; but with Pak Boon now at eight years since her last birth, they don’t have the luxury of time.
I would be more than surprised if all options were not talked about and ideas were likely floated while so many staff were all located at the zoo at the current time, In fact I would say having all these staff come together is an unforeseen blessing I believe fruit will come of this in a unexpected way far better than any zoom call and the opportunity for the staff to learn from each other.
It was certainly invaluable in the design of the complex. Werribee’s had more international input and had a decade of planning behind it. Monarto having an elephant complex was 20+ years away in their minds up until 2023. What a surprise that was for us all. It enabled them to take inspiration from Werribee’s complex, which was in the advanced planning stages and the influence is clear - complete with fidget spinner paddock, which @StoppableSan has noted is popular in the US too.
It really was an opportune moment for Monarto, with Taronga, Perth and Auckland all wanting to phase out. The original plan was for Taronga’s cows to go to Dubbo; and Auckland’s cow to go to Australia Zoo, so this was very much the project that almost wasn’t, but then was.
I would say that what has happened with the captive elephant program within the region is the biggest leap forward in the regions zoological history to date, Having 3 major city zoos send all their animals to 3 open range zoos has never been seen before also the Monarto zoo had that much support from the public that I believe the donations from the public exceeded the amount they wanted in just 3 days if I recall correctly. The jewel in the crown is with little doubt the Werribee's brand new elephant complex I believe this will be the backbone for future on the asian elephant in this country for many years to come it is leading the way for others to follow I can't praise ZoosVic enough for getting this so right!
Last edited:
I hope to get down there and go see!
Its the equivalent of an elephant sanctuary built in a zoo. Im hoping its the start of improved handling. Time will tell, with paddocks like they have. There is really no reason for males to be kept solitary unless they are in musth and to hyper agressive. But even then the paddocks are large enough that other bulls could be kept in the same paddock with ample space to get out of the way.
Who ever decided that AI should not be attempted and only onsite bulls be bred from needs to be fired. To not even AI other cows is a absolutely stupid idea and complete miss management. Not only for the stress of moving animals but also bottlenecking genetics.
I would rather see they use Taronga cows though. Pak boon and Porntip should be Ai'd ASAP. Then any bull offspring can be used at Werribee or Dubbo itself.
The plan is to have the bull paddocks partly obscured from each other by a tree line to enable two mature bulls to be held side by side. Many zoos succeed in holding mature bulls with younger bulls when not in musth, so I’m hopeful this will be achieved with Luk Chai and his sons.
When I asked Melbourne’s keepers if the plan was for Luk Chai to leave after siring another cohort of calves, they said not necessarily and that he could remain at Werribee. With his placid nature, it’s easy to see how his value could extend beyond his breeding application to a mentor of young bulls coming through.
Unfortunately the issue with Porntip not breeding appears to be the capacity of Dubbo’s facilities (specifically the barn). There’s otherwise no reason she shouldn’t be able to breed naturally with Gung.
Pak Boon should definitely be insemianted via AI if natural breeding with Putra Mas is unsuccessful.
Long term, natural breeding would certainly be the preference; but here and now, the emphasis should be on getting Pak Boon pregnant (ideally to the under-represented founder Putra Mas) - even if thats through AI.
This is what im talking about tho, we have these huge paddocks and we are still only holding a single bull in each one. In the wild bulls continually move and live in loosely grouped coalitions of bulls. Even throughout south east asia bulls unless in musth are cohabitated in a lot of captive situations.
It's time we start looking at modernising how we keep the elephants in Aus. We have zoos with more space then most zoos world wide. Yet we are continually constrained by space and how we keep bulls. Werribees large paddocks and smaller side paddocks should offer the ability to hold bulls in newer and more naturalistic ways and not stuck in solitary confinement if they are not mixed with the matriarchal herd.
It would be a huge advantage if multiple bulls could be housed together as the capacity of the 21ha Werribee complex will otherwise be limited by the number of bull paddocks. Like you say, the size of paddocks may well negate the conflicts you’d expect to see in a confined space which exacerbates social tensions.
Another thing to bear in mind is that as the region breeds well socialised young bulls, this could well become easier than the challenges of working with some of the imported bulls like Gung, who had no mentor during his adolescence and is seldom housed with Dubbo’s young males.
Natural breeding should have no more emphasis on it then Ai. upending and moving bulls for the sake of using them for breeding shouldn't be done unless the bull is going to be used like Luk chai. Where he will be used to breed with the entire herd.
As we move further along. We will end up with matriarchal herds where hat wont be possible. Nor will continually moving bulls or importing them be an ideal option. AI offers the ability to cover 1 or two cows at Werribee or dubbo with a bull from monarto or vice versa. With the cost and upheaval of the animal itself. Putra Mas has valuable genrtics and has bred once. Both pak bon and Porntip should be Ai'd as soon as possible.
Dubbo are now two cows down. They are no longer taking the Ex Taronga girls. So there is no reason to halt breeding the way they have. Anjalee was planned to be bred when they were taking on the Taronga cows. Now they have the extra space. They need to get cracking. Portips daughtr is 7. It'll be at least 7 years till she is of breeding age/ has her own calf.
While a natural breeding should be the first option to consider in some cases AI is a winner when an on site bull is not available, Because is possible Putra Mas might not be able to breed naturally the AI will be the way to go also once he arrives at Monarto zoo its unlikely he he ever leave there so if Werribee or Dubbo want to use him while he is available AI is the way to go!
This is Def true. Werribees paddocks, are larger then some zoos entire elephant complex. Especially the ones of old. So its time we start moving in a more naturalised way of managing this species. Same with monarto, these two zoos are the perfect grounds to look at how zoos can better handle bull elephants.