Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

Zorro said:
Thank you @Zoofan15 , I saw on the 9 news FB they said he was going to a breeding situation
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That’s exciting to hear. I believe that’s the first public confirmation we’ve had of this, so good to know. It would be a crime not to breed with the two most genetically valuable elephants in Australia and they’ll need to give consideration to succession unless they want to go the route of holding bachelor bulls.
ZCChip said:
From the comments he will be kept separately from the girls?
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I saw that comment too, which said they would be emulating the natural social order where bulls and cows only come together for breeding.

Since it goes against what Perth’s Director of Life Sciences said in an interview last week, I’m inclined to believe the person running Perth’s socials (which posted that conflicting comment) could be repeating the explanation they’ve spent the last 20 years giving visitors to Perth Zoo about why Putra Mas didn’t live with the cows.

In any case, I’d expect the frequency and duration of social interactions to be driven by the elephants themselves. If they want space, they’ll be given space and vice versa.
 
Zoofan15 said:
That’s exciting to hear. I believe that’s the first public confirmation we’ve had of this, so good to know. It would be a crime not to breed with the two most genetically valuable elephants in Australia and they’ll need to give consideration to succession unless they want to go the route of holding bachelor bulls.


I saw that comment too, which said they would be emulating the natural social order where bulls and cows only come together for breeding.

Since it goes against what Perth’s Director of Life Sciences said in an interview last week, I’m inclined to believe the person running Perth’s socials (which posted that conflicting comment) could be repeating the explanation they’ve spent the last 20 years giving visitors to Perth Zoo about why Putra Mas didn’t live with the cows.

In any case, I’d expect the frequency and duration of social interactions to be driven by the elephants themselves. If they want space, they’ll be given space and vice versa.
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It's been a big couple of days for the elephant move so glad all went well, I hope Putra Mas gets some real sleep tonight perhaps even laying down on the sand piles. I would say one or more of his keepers would stay all night or perhaps a few nights to oversee all goes well. I guess the next big question after he has had some introductions with the cows is if any breeding happens either with natural matings and or AI. I believe we really need to see the 3 open range zoos in this country to have a part in the breeding plan especially since Dubbo has taken out two viable breeding cows out of the overall population.
 
Zorro said:
It's been a big couple of days for the elephant move so glad all went well, I hope Putra Mas gets some real sleep tonight perhaps even laying down on the sand piles. I would say one or more of his keepers would stay all night or perhaps a few nights to oversee all goes well. I guess the next big question after he has had some introductions with the cows is if any breeding happens either with natural matings and or AI. I believe we really need to see the 3 open range zoos in this country to have a part in the breeding plan especially since Dubbo has taken out two viable breeding cows out of the overall population.
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From the videos on socials, he’s certainly enjoying the sand piles. He appears very well adjusted considering he’s just undertook a 42 hour journey and has been vocalising/trumpeting with excitement.

There’s reason to be hopeful natural mating will be successful. Perth Zoo reported a mating between him and Permai in the 2005 annual report, so he at least knows how to mount a cow (even if he is out of practice); and the failure of the pair to mate in later attempts was attributed to Permai’s uncertainty around the process. Pak Boon is well practiced in mating and will hopefully stand for him.

And if they do have to resort to AI, at least they have the bull on site to produce semen at short notice.
 
Zoofan15 said:
From the videos on socials, he’s certainly enjoying the sand piles. He appears very well adjusted considering he’s just undertook a 42 hour journey and has been vocalising/trumpeting with excitement.

There’s reason to be hopeful natural mating will be successful. Perth Zoo reported a mating between him and Permai in the 2005 annual report, so he at least knows how to mount a cow (even if he is out of practice); and the failure of the pair to mate in later attempts was attributed to Permai’s uncertainty around the process. Pak Boon is well practiced in mating and will hopefully stand for him.

And if they do have to resort to AI, at least they have the bull on site to produce semen at short notice.
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I would say its very likely they were feeding him a lot of treats on the way like bananas he certainly appears to be a bit of a food hound :D
 
Zoofan15 said:
He looks calm and relaxed, testament to his trust in the keepers and there months of training he underwent in preparation for this move.

This would be the bull barn, so hopefully once he’s settled in, we’ll get content of him meeting the cows.
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He made it okay then:). I thought he would but you never know. Remind me, why is Tang Mo not considered for breeding. Too old?
 
Pertinax said:
He made it okay then. I thought he would but you never know. Remind me, why is the other cow that came with Pak Boon (forget her name without looking) not considered for breeding. Too old?
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Tang Mo was born 1999, so is now 26 years old.

She has a narrow reproductive tract which made Gung’s attempts to mate with her in the 2010’s uncomfortable. Taronga resorted to AI and in 2012, reported a pregnancy test had come back positive, but the pregnancy didn’t progress.

When @steveroberts and I spoke to a keeper last year, he advised us the Berlin team told them breeding with Tang Mo was a ‘no go’, but didn’t offer a specific physiological reason.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Tang Mo was born 1999, so is now 26 years old.

She has a narrow reproductive tract which made Gung’s attempts to mate with her in the 2010’s uncomfortable. Taronga resorted to AI and in 2012, reported a pregnancy test had come back positive, but the pregnancy didn’t progress.

When @steveroberts and I spoke to a keeper last year, he advised us the Berlin team told them breeding with Tang Mo was a ‘no go’, but didn’t offer a specific physiological reason.
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I just wonder now 15 years later she would have grown somewhat if being larger would have helped the situation with her
 
Zorro said:
I just wonder now 15 years later she would have grown somewhat if being larger would have helped the situation with her
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The impression I got was the (additional) issue was her carrying a calf to term. AI negated the issue of natural mating not working, but she didn’t carry the pregnancy. Whether it was a hormone deficiency or an abnormality of the uterus I don’t know.

It’s a real shame. Aside from being a valuable founder, she apparently showed the strongest maternal instincts of the four cows imported by Taronga and got so much joy from the calves.
 
I found a news article on Putra Mas's arrival. Excitedly he will have the opportunity to interact with the girls quite soon.

Over the next few weeks, Putra Mas will complete a standard quarantine period while he adjusts to his surroundings. During this time, he may even interact with the female elephants through safe bollard barriers — but only if they choose to. Keepers will be taking cues from Putra Mas and the cows to make sure everyone settles in at their own pace.

Welcome home, Putra Mas! Asian Elephant completes epic cross-country journey
 
I was scrolling through some of Monarto's comments on the Facebook and one person apparently was told by staff that they don't plan on breeding. I'm skeptical of this myself given that over the entire process Monarto has been hopeful that the elephants would be able to form a "multigenerational herd", which of course wouldn't be able to happen in the current group without Pak Boon breeding.
Not sure what the staff would've meant unless it was a volunteer not in the know.
 
Zorro said:
I just wonder now 15 years later she would have grown somewhat if being larger would have helped the situation with her
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When I visited in February and later in June for a black rhino experience, I was told by the black rhino keeper, Monarto would try breeding with both Pak Boon and Tang Mo if breeding was on the cards. It could’ve just been that he didn’t know their breeding history and assumed, since they both came from a breeding herd at Taronga. Or maybe, even though it’s been about 13 years, Monarto thinks Tang Mo might still have a chance; elephants have had longer gaps in captivity before, and she might’ve just been a late bloomer (pure speculation on my end).

I was also told Monarto’s planning an interactive fence of some sort between the black rhinos and elephants for enrichment (at the back of area 4), a first for these species. Furthermore, personally, I don’t doubt that Putra Mas is a capable breeder; I think Permai’s behavioural issues might’ve been what held things back.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I was scrolling through some of Monarto's comments on the Facebook and one person apparently was told by staff that they don't plan on breeding. I'm skeptical of this myself given that over the entire process Monarto has been hopeful that the elephants would be able to form a "multigenerational herd", which of course wouldn't be able to happen in the current group without Pak Boon breeding.
Not sure what the staff would've meant unless it was a volunteer not in the know.
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Honestly, I'm not surprised. I remember @Zoofan15 speculated a few years back that Pak Boon had been removed from the breeding program (due to medical reasons) - and this is a theory that I too have maintained since. It makes sense as to why there was no rush to breed her again after Jai Dee's death; Taronga had years to do so. I'm also very sure breeding would have been specifically mentioned by all three facilities (Taronga, Perth and Monarto), but it never has.

I've scrolled through and read the comments and the commenter states this was from when she visited just a few weeks ago - so fairly new information. Even for volunteers, I'd still doubt they'd specifically say they won't be breeding, if there indeed were plans to, or they weren't in the know.
 
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