Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

The most recent talk is that he will be breeding at Monarto. It seems they are indeed prioritising the introductions of the cows before any concentrated breeding efforts.

So we can expect no actual calves on the ground there for probably a decade or more. Pak Boon's time will have run out (if she is even still reproductive) by the time they decide the cow group is ready
Hopefully he is at least introduced to some of the cows so it can be determined whether or not he shows interest/ability in naturally breeding.

 

[Jambo]

So we can expect no actual calves on the ground there for probably a ecade or more. Pak Boon's time will have run out (if she is even still reproductive) by the time they decide the cow group is ready

To be frank, I'm surprised they've prioritised this route. Obviously they do think pregnancy hormones may effect social dynamics - but I think many of us would agree that we'd rather see a cohesive long term herd be established at Monarto.

The keepers can't force the elephants to get along with one another, and it seems like they're perhaps being a tad bit too overconfident about a few things ie. the herd being able to assimilate soon, and Pak Boon still being reproductive when that time comes.

It's important to be realistic - and the bottom line is that Pak Boon's chances of conceiving are getting slimmer as time goes on. I think it's quite obvious though that they recognise the risks - hence the public communication being that these elephants won't breed. But it's just poor management if they let Pak Boon, an unrepresented founder fall into reproductive unviability.

 

[Zoofan15]

So we can expect no actual calves on the ground there for probably a decade or more. Pak Boon's time will have run out (if she is even still reproductive) by the time they decide the cow group is ready
Hopefully he is at least introduced to some of the cows so it can be determined whether or not he shows interest/ability in naturally breeding.

To be frank, I'm surprised they've prioritised this route. Obviously they do think pregnancy hormones may effect social dynamics - but I think many of us would agree that we'd rather see a cohesive long term herd be established at Monarto.

The keepers can't force the elephants to get along with one another, and it seems like they're perhaps being a tad bit too overconfident about a few things ie. the herd being able to assimilate soon, and Pak Boon still being reproductive when that time comes.

It's important to be realistic - and the bottom line is that Pak Boon's chances of conceiving are getting slimmer as time goes on. I think it's quite obvious though that they recognise the risks - hence the public communication being that these elephants won't breed. But it's just poor management if they let Pak Boon, an unrepresented founder fall into reproductive unviability.

Based on introductions of single cows, it could take years for the cows to form a cohesive herd.

Pak Boon is Monarto’s only shot at building up succession in this herd and as an unrepresented founder, is too valuable to lose. The region only has five viable founder cows beyond her at this stage.

If they proceed with breeding ASAP and pregnancy hormones do indeed affect introductions, worst case scenario, the elephants will have to be managed in multiple herds as they are now. Best case scenario, the elephants continue to bond (even if it takes a longer period of time).

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

The keepers can't force the elephants to get along with one another, and it seems like they're perhaps being a tad bit too overconfident about a few things ie. the herd being able to assimilate soon, and Pak Boon still being reproductive when that time comes.

There is also no guarantee that the the three groups will ever be able to fully integrate, even if they're given significant time to undergo introductions.

Then what? They'll have 3-4 groups of post reproductive females + the most valuable bull in the region. It will be likely around a decade before Werribee would be willing to send any of their cows over (likely Num-Oi, Kati and other calves of Num Oi), and then they may even have to manage four seperate cow groups (plus a fifth group when Putra Mas is in Musth), which definitely limits capacity for breeding.

All around very odd management choices. Short of Pak Boon just not being reproductive anymore, they have zero good reason to not be pushing full steam ahead with getting her pregnant.

 

[Zoofan15]

There is also no guarantee that the the three groups will ever be able to fully integrate, even if they're given significant time to undergo introductions.

Then what? They'll have 3-4 groups of post reproductive females + the most valuable bull in the region. It will be likely around a decade before Werribee would be willing to send any of their cows over (likely Num-Oi, Kati and other calves of Num Oi), and then they may even have to manage four seperate cow groups (plus a fifth group when Putra Mas is in Musth), which definitely limits capacity for breeding.

All around very odd management choices. Short of Pak Boon just not being reproductive anymore, they have zero good reason to not be pushing full steam ahead with getting her pregnant.

With Putra Mas being in musth now, there’s no chance of them undertaking breeding introductions until the new year; but I fully agree with you it should be full steam ahead at that point. Time is of the essence here.

Burma (now deceased cow at Dubbo) was an elderly female unable to be integrated with the Thai imports; but she led a fulfilling life living alongside the younger elephants, even enjoying positive interactions with the young bulls along the fence line. Saigon at Sydney Zoo is another example of the life I envision for Burma (1982) and Permai (1989) if an integration can’t be achieved, though I remain hopeful it can. Permai is apparently bonding with Tang Mo, so the eventual outcome could be integrating Permai with the Taronga cows (with Pak Boon as matriarch); and Burma living alongside this trio (and any calves Pak Boon produces).

Ultimately I anticipate the biggest challenge will be integrating Pak Boon and Burma.

 

[Frankie_number_1_fan]

With Putra Mas being in musth now, there’s no chance of them undertaking breeding introductions until the new year; but I fully agree with you it should be full steam ahead at that point. Time is of the essence here.

It is a shame that Putra Mas didn't come a bit sooner so that he could be introduced to Pak Boon before his musth to familiarize her with him. Should she cycle during his musth period, it wouldve theoretically be the most ideal time for them to produce a calf since they both would likely be more receptive of the other's advances (within reason, so long as Putra Mas wouldn't be overly rough).

 

[Zoofan15]

It is a shame that Putra Mas didn't come a bit sooner so that he could be introduced to Pak Boon before his musth to familiarize her with him. Should she cycle during his musth period, it wouldve theoretically be the most ideal time for them to produce a calf since they both would likely be more receptive of the other's advances (within reason, so long as Putra Mas wouldn't be overly rough).

I agree. His annual musth cycle typically doesn’t begin until December or January, so it’s possible the upheaval of moving to a new location has triggered it to begin earlier.

They would surely be conscious of Putra Mas acting overly aggressive towards any of the cows to attempt an introduction, so I’m not expecting anything to happen until he comes out of musth (circa March/April 2026).

Between now and then, that’ll be additional time to continue with introductions of the cows. I’ll be most interested to see how Burma goes with the Taronga cows as we’ve already seen progress between Permai and Tang Mo. I assume this is because Tang Mo is comparatively amenable/playful compared to some of the more dominant personalities in the herd.

 

[Mr.Ivory]

I agree. His annual musth cycle typically doesn’t begin until December or January, so it’s possible the upheaval of moving to a new location has triggered it to begin earlier.

They would surely be conscious of Putra Mas acting overly aggressive towards any of the cows to attempt an introduction, so I’m not expecting anything to happen until he comes out of musth (circa March/April 2026).

Between now and then, that’ll be additional time to continue with introductions of the cows. I’ll be most interested to see how Burma goes with the Taronga cows as we’ve already seen progress between Permai and Tang Mo. I assume this is because Tang Mo is comparatively amenable/playful compared to some of the more dominant personalities in the herd.

Could the presence of Pak Boon as a hopefully still fertile female be a cause for this earlier musth cycle? He might not be able to have direct visual contact yet, but he can most certainly smell and communicate with her.

 

[Zoofan15]

Could the presence of Pak Boon as a hopefully still fertile female be a cause for this earlier musth cycle? He might not be able to have direct visual contact yet, but he can most certainly smell and communicate with her.

That’s certainly possible. I recall Gung unexpectedly going into musth (inconveniently as the team were about to undertake semen collection for AI on one of the cows at Melbourne). Him going into musth was attributed to the younger bulls (Luk Chai and Pathi Harn) having adolescent musth cycles; and also Thong Dee cycling at the time.

Perhaps Pak Boon (or Tang Mo etc) was cycling when he arrived on site.

 

[Zorro]

The most recent talk is that he will be breeding at Monarto. It seems they are indeed prioritising the introductions of the cows before any concentrated breeding efforts.

They really need to one way or the other get a few more calfs out of him even if they could get a couple at Werribee and Dubbo would be ideal

 

[Zoofan15]

They really need to one way or the other get a few more calfs out of him even if they could get a couple at Werribee and Dubbo would be ideal

Definitely. At this point in time, Werribee is the best shot at Putra Mas contributing via AI. At least two of their three viable cows (Dokkoon and Num-Oi) are trained for AI and have conceived two calves each through this method. Though unconfirmed, it’s possible the third cow (Mali) also began training for this.

It appears Porntip (and Thong Dee) have been retired from the breeding programme. If so, that leaves Kanlaya (daughter of Putra Mas) and Anjalee. Though there were many factors at play that influenced the outcome of her five failed AI attempts, the most complicating factor was Anjalee’s irregular cycles. Assuming that is ongoing, it would make her a poor candidate for AI.

 

[Johnpaul21]

I agree. His annual musth cycle typically doesn’t begin until December or January, so it’s possible the upheaval of moving to a new location has triggered it to begin earlier.

They would surely be conscious of Putra Mas acting overly aggressive towards any of the cows to attempt an introduction, so I’m not expecting anything to happen until he comes out of musth (circa March/April 2026).

Between now and then, that’ll be additional time to continue with introductions of the cows. I’ll be most interested to see how Burma goes with the Taronga cows as we’ve already seen progress between Permai and Tang Mo. I assume this is because Tang Mo is comparatively amenable/playful compared to some of the more dominant personalities in the herd.

With an early start to musth I would expect an earlier finish time, more like early to mid February,

Based on previous years not starting so early, once he finishes, as said It's still on the cards but I hope with him being such an important bull in the region something eventuates because at Monarto I feel as if there is no real "breeding push"

 

[Zoofan15]

With an early start to musth I would expect an earlier finish time, more like early to mid February,

Based on previous years not starting so early, once he finishes, as said It's still on the cards but I hope with him being such an important bull in the region something eventuates because at Monarto I feel as if there is no real "breeding push"

Previous cycles have run:

December to April
January to May

Assuming a four month cycle, that’d be March 2026, but it’s possible the length of the musth cycle could be longer or shorter due to the disruption.

It’s disappointing that there’s no real push to achieve breeding at Monarto; but I suppose even if Pak Boon is lost as a founder, there’s the potential for AI down the line as @Zorro has suggested. Otherwise, Kanlaya at Dubbo will be his sole descendant. Ordinarily, such individuals are prioritised for breeding, but due to the limited capacity at Dubbo, they really need a new barn for this to happen; and in any case, Anjalee is a genetically valuable cow too.

 

[Zorro]

Previous cycles have run:

December to April
January to May

Assuming a four month cycle, that’d be March 2026, but it’s possible the length of the musth cycle could be longer or shorter due to the disruption.

It’s disappointing that there’s no real push to achieve breeding at Monarto; but I suppose even if Pak Boon is lost as a founder, there’s the potential for AI down the line as @Zorro has suggested. Otherwise, Kanlaya at Dubbo will be his sole descendant. Ordinarily, such individuals are prioritised for breeding, but due to the limited capacity at Dubbo, they really need a new barn for this to happen; and in any case, Anjalee is a genetically valuable cow too.

It is disappointing that Dubbo has retired two adult breeding cows due to lack of barn space with no sign of that even being on the cards to be built, it must be frustrating for the keepers that money can be found for a new car cable chair lift at Taronga zoo at a reported cost of $110 million, It did not take a much vision to see by placing the imported herd at Taronga in the first place was not the best option cramped up in a city zoo then spending millions on the new exhibit that was never going to be big enough only to end up moving the whole herd out to Dubbo at a later date.
Melbourne on the other hand even though they also put their herd in the small cramped area at Melbourne was thinking ten years ahead and now that is paying handsome dividends with the huge elephant exhibit/complex at Werribee park zoo. I believe the future mainly lays in the hands at Werribee by planning so far ahead and bringing in some top overseas elephant experts!
I believe the next cohort of calfs will see where the direction of the herd will go!

 

[Zoofan15]

It is disappointing that Dubbo has retired two adult breeding cows due to lack of barn space with no sign of that even being on the cards to be built, it must be frustrating for the keepers that money can be found for a new car cable chair lift at Taronga zoo at a reported cost of $110 million, It did not take a much vision to see by placing the imported herd at Taronga in the first place was not the best option cramped up in a city zoo then spending millions on the new exhibit that was never going to be big enough only to end up moving the whole herd out to Dubbo at a later date.
Melbourne on the other hand even though they also put their herd in the small cramped area at Melbourne was thinking ten years ahead and now that is paying handsome dividends with the huge elephant exhibit/complex at Werribee park zoo. I believe the future mainly lays in the hands at Werribee by planning so far ahead and bringing in some top overseas elephant experts!
I believe the next cohort of calfs will see where the direction of the herd will go!

The lack of barn space has been greatly detrimental to Dubbo’s breeding programme. Aside from the potential loss of two founder cows from the pool of breeding females, it means calves such as Anjalee’s unborn calf are born without peers.

The latest cohort of calves at Werribee is a textbook example of the benefits to socialisation to a calf’s development with peers to interact with and practice breeding behaviours/mounting over the coming years. The trio of calves born 2009-2010 (each eight months apart) is another example; and I was initially hopeful this could have been replicated at Dubbo with Porntip and Thong Dee welcoming their third calves around the time Anjalee gave birth. Sadly this never materialised.

Though I’m glad Dubbo acquired Anjalee and she’d had the chance to breed, it’s worth noting that had they not, Porntip would likely be breeding again. That said, the original plan was for Pak Boon and Tang Mo to join the others at Dubbo, so who knows. With no new barn on the horizon, they may have even retried all adult cows and hinged the whole future of the breeding programme on seven year old Kanlaya!

 

[Jambo]

Ultimately I anticipate the biggest challenge will be integrating Pak Boon and Burma.

Pak Boon and Burma have already shown positive interactions, same with Permai and Tang Mo. I do wonder whether, once these relationships strengthen, Monarto will elect to begin grouping those two pairs together, with the goal of eventually introducing the other Taronga cow to each pair. In that case, Monarto will essentially be left with just Burma and Permai to introduce eventually, and I predict that may be the biggest challenge.

Definitely. At this point in time, Werribee is the best shot at Putra Mas contributing via AI. At least two of their three viable cows (Dokkoon and Num-Oi) are trained for AI and have conceived two calves each through this method. Though unconfirmed, it’s possible the third cow (Mali) also began training for this.

If Mali isn't trained, I don't see why they wouldn't begin training her if the hope is to utilise Putra Mas for AI. If Werribee uses Luk Chai for the next cohort, they could then also theoretically use Putra Mas via AI for the next cohort after that; meaning they could train Mali, Aiyara and Kati for such a procedure in the meantime.

It’s disappointing that there’s no real push to achieve breeding at Monarto

There is - it's just they seem to be foolishly prioritising the introductions in the meantime.

That said, the original plan was for Pak Boon and Tang Mo to join the others at Dubbo, so who knows. With no new barn on the horizon, they may have even retried all adult cows and hinged the whole future of the breeding programme on seven year old Kanlaya!

I imagine the two Taronga cows would have joined them, perhaps with only Pak Boon breeding (in place of Anjalee). That, ironically, would've probably been best case for her! But either way, that would have left Anjalee, also as an unrepresented founder, in the same situation as Pak Boon now.

 

[Zorro]

The lack of barn space has been greatly detrimental to Dubbo’s breeding programme. Aside from the potential loss of two founder cows from the pool of breeding females, it means calves such as Anjalee’s unborn calf are born without peers.

The latest cohort of calves at Werribee is a textbook example of the benefits to socialisation to a calf’s development with peers to interact with and practice breeding behaviours/mounting over the coming years. The trio of calves born 2009-2010 (each eight months apart) is another example; and I was initially hopeful this could have been replicated at Dubbo with Porntip and Thong Dee welcoming their third calves around the time Anjalee gave birth. Sadly this never materialised.

Though I’m glad Dubbo acquired Anjalee and she’d had the chance to breed, it’s worth noting that had they not, Porntip would likely be breeding again. That said, the original plan was for Pak Boon and Tang Mo to join the others at Dubbo, so who knows. With no new barn on the horizon, they may have even retried all adult cows and hinged the whole future of the breeding programme on seven year old Kanlaya!

I believe the reason that Anjalee was sent to the Taronga herd was it was thought her best chance of breeding her was with Gung the natural way as he knew what to do and unrelated and hence it worked for them, It does frustrate me that after the huge investment of importing all those Thai elephants that now they are making mistakes that should not have been made its bad management and bad planning!

 

[Zoofan15]

I believe the reason that Anjalee was sent to the Taronga herd was it was thought her best chance of breeding her was with Gung the natural way as he knew what to do and unrelated and hence it worked for them, It does frustrate me that after the huge investment of importing all those Thai elephants that now they are making mistakes that should not have been made its bad management and bad planning!

Yes, that’s correct. She has five failed AI attempts prior to that an due to her irregular cycles, it was preferable to switch to natural breeding as a bull could be introduced to her at short notice.

In an ideal world, Anjalee would have joined Burma at Monarto. I acknowledge it’s an unknown whether Putra Mas can breed naturally and it would have involved a significant delay, so it’s probably for the best she went to Dubbo and consequently, is due next month! She’d otherwise be looking at breeding introductions starting next year as she approached her 19th birthday as a nulliparous cow.

 

[E Maximus]

Can someone refresh my memory. How long has it been since Pak Boons last calf and how old is she? This thread is so large I’m struggling to find this info.

Can someone with more knowledge also tell me what the consensus is as to why Dubbo(I think that’s the facility where Anjalee is) has such a small capacity when several zoo’s in the States house almost double the elephants or plan to with less or the same amount of indoor space? I’m not very familiar with the region. And if I’m reading everything correctly, they manage their program the same way North America did in the 90’s to early 2000’s minus the free contact.

 

[Zoofan15]

Can someone refresh my memory. How long has it been since Pak Boons last calf and how old is she? This thread is so large I’m struggling to find this info.

Can someone with more knowledge also tell me what the consensus is as to why Dubbo(I think that’s the facility where Anjalee is) has such a small capacity when several zoo’s in the States house almost double the elephants or plan to with less or the same amount of indoor space? I’m not very familiar with the region. And if I’m reading everything correctly, they manage their program the same way North America did in the 90’s to early 2000’s minus the free contact.

Pak Boon was born 1992 and her last calf was in 2017.

Her calves are as follows:

0.1 Tukta (2010-2018)
1.0 Jai Dee (2017-2020)

Dubbo’s limiting factor is their barn space. They have three barns (believed to be three stalls; two stalls; and three stalls). The cows occupy one of the three stall barns; the bulls the other; with the two stall believed to be used to manage the adult bull when in musth.

Dubbo have five outdoor exhibits, so the barn space is really what’s holding them back. They have long term plans to build a large herd barn, which will address these problems.