Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

ZCChip said:
I meant the import from Thailand/India... lol I knew Burma is the oldest hence the keepers counting her being the matriarch.
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Jambo said:
All ranged in age from 14 years old (the oldest two cows), whilst the youngest cow was only 5 years old at time of import. So all were essentially adolescents (Thong Dee, Tang Mo, Kulab, Gung, Num Oi); with the exception of a handful that were young adults (Porntip, Pak Boon and Dokkoon)
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At the time of import:

Porntip (Taronga) - 14 years (18, 26)
Pak Boon (Taronga) - 14 years (18, 25)
Dokkoon (Melbourne) - 13 years (17, 20, 29)
Thong Dee (Taronga) - 9 years (12, 19)
Tang Mo (Taronga) - 7 years (NA)
Kulab (Melbourne) - 6 years (10)
Num-Oi (Melbourne) - 5 years (12, 15, 22)

Age at birth of calves in brackets.
 
I would hope consideration will be given to using Putra Mas in future breedings with Melboune zoos first home bred female (who has one calf) and the young cow (currently pregnant) at Dubbo from the Auckland zoo I believe this would be a big bonus for the regional program plus also for both zoos. When I look back at the loss of Heman to the population it would be a shame if Putra Mas has only the one calf to carry on his line!
 
Zorro said:
I believe much of the future breeding importance is going to fall back on the current trio of calfs from the last cohort born at Melbourne zoo (now at Werribee) being they got 1 M 2F from it, Also what they actually they get from the next Werribee cohort in a few years this I believe will shape things for the future depending on the number of female calfs produced
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Aiyara (2022) and Kati (2023) will definitely be key figures in the succession plans for Werribee’s herd. Kati is currently her mother’s only living descendant; though as you mention, there’s a plan for a second cohort at Werribee, which will hopefully add an additional calf to her line. Another female from Num-Oi be ideal; with Dokkoon’s line already containing two daughters - Mali and Aiyara.

My prediction is Aiyara and Kati will breed for the first time in the early to mid-teens (circa 14-15 years). Potentially Mali could join them to produce a cohort of three calves as I can see Dokkoon and Num-Oi retired after their fourth calves are born in the next cohort (unless Num-Oi produces a son).
 
ZCChip said:
Flight of the Elephants - Go Wild - YouTube

People may enjoy this video of the imports. Granted, some of the activists are involved but it is nice to see the elephants grow in the process from acquisition, quarantine then finally arrival. It is a strong focus on Thong Dee.
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Thanks for sharing. It’s been a few years since I last saw this, but it brings back memories of what a monumental effort it was to get these elephants into Australia. Who could have imagined that six of the seven cows imported from Thailand would go on to produce calves - two of which were coincidentally born on the anniversary of their parent’s import (November 2)!

Thong Dee was quite under-socialised compared to some of the other imports and very pre-occupied with food until she learnt there was enough to go around. She’s certainly flourished in the herds she’s lived in and though she leant on the other cows for support in raising her calves more than Porntip and Pak Boon, did a good job at raising Luk Chai and Sabai, two well socialised young bulls.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Thanks for sharing. It’s been a few years since I last saw this, but it brings back memories of what a monumental effort it was to get these elephants into Australia. Who could have imagined that six of the seven cows imported from Thailand would go on to produce calves - two of which were coincidentally born on the anniversary of their parent’s import (November 2)!

Thong Dee was quite under-socialised compared to some of the other imports and very pre-occupied with food until she learnt there was enough to go around. She’s certainly flourished in the herds she’s lived in and though she leant on the other cows for support in raising her calves more than Porntip and Pak Boon, did a good job at raising Luk Chai and Sabai, two well socialised young bulls.
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Yes, its been a few years since I saw it as well. I cannot remember who was the smaller calf with her at the village. They said the name really fast.

It can been seen why she was quite under socialized. She was probably separated from her mother at a young age and kept at that village. Hopefully her next calf will be a female!
 
ZCChip said:
Yes, its been a few years since I saw it as well. I cannot remember who was the smaller calf with her at the village. They said the name really fast.

It can been seen why she was quite under socialized. She was probably separated from her mother at a young age and kept at that village. Hopefully her next calf will be a female!
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That was Tang Mo, she was referred to as Thong Dee’s “three year old cousin”. I’m not sure if that was a reference to them originating from the same herd and being presumed cousins/relatives. They’re quite different in physical appearance (Tang Mo is tall and slender); though it might explain how Thong Dee produced a tall son in Luk Chai!

The opening scenes of that doco were 2004/2005 (it was noted it took almost two years from that point to export the elephants). This is interesting as Tang Mo was described as a three year old at that point (she was later aged up to being born in 1999). Thong Dee was initially believed to have been born 2000 and having seen footage of her in this documentary, I’m inclined to agree. The evidence aging her up to being born three years earlier was pretty flimsy in my opinion; and came following widespread criticism of the zoo for allowing her to conceive her first calf in 2007.
 
Zoofan15 said:
That was Tang Mo, she was referred to as Thong Dee’s “three year old cousin”. I’m not sure if that was a reference to them originating from the same herd and being presumed cousins/relatives. They’re quite different in physical appearance (Tang Mo is tall and slender); though it might explain how Thong Dee produced a tall son in Luk Chai!

The opening scenes of that doco were 2004/2005 (it was noted it took almost two years from that point to export the elephants). This is interesting as Tang Mo was described as a three year old at that point (she was later aged up to being born in 1999). Thong Dee was initially believed to have been born 2000 and having seen footage of her in this documentary, I’m inclined to agree. The evidence aging her up to being born three years earlier was pretty flimsy in my opinion; and came following widespread criticism of the zoo for allowing her to conceive her first calf in 2007.
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that was interesting they put her in the truck by herself. They could have put both of them in. Lessen the stress.

I must say I spent a lot of time looking for Gung!
 
ZCChip said:
that was interesting they put her in the truck by herself. They could have put both of them in. Lessen the stress.

I must say I spent a lot of time looking for Gung!
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Zorro said:
Gung was slated to be sent to the Auckland zoo but they had a change of mind and hence went to the Taronga zoo Sydney instead
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In addition to Gung, Auckland Zoo were also supposed to receive a female (Tukta). She was aggressive and therefore deemed unsuitable for free contact and so Auckland Zoo cancelled her import.

Auckland Zoo’s barn had three stalls. Had they imported Gung, they would have had to have quickly worked on constructing bull facilities, which Taronga needed for him within two years of his import (after the matriarchal herd sought to eject him from the herd).

Auckland Zoo at one stage planned to grow a herd to double figures, but there was upset amongst ratepayers of Auckland City Council, which among other reasons contributed to these plans being abandoned. An expansion into Western Spring (and breeding) could have potentially seen this species remain at Auckland Zoo; and I don’t doubt Putra Mas (or even Heman) would have played a greater role in the Australian breeding programme - debatable since Heman died before things really got started breeding wise.
 
As I have seen in most of Monarto's videos/photos, not one shows a keeper in the enclosure with Permai, all the videos they are doing training behind the bars like they would with Putra Mas. At Perth the keepers were always in with her, some even riding her, so why now the distance?
 

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Because free contact with elephants is never safe. Even a female elephant who has always been cooperative in free contact can act out (for whatever reason) and injure or even kill a keeper. Elephants are so much more stronger then humans that it does not take much for an elephant to cause severe injuries, be it accidently or an intentional attack. Zoos have learned from the many dead and injured keepers in the past.
 
Johnpaul21 said:
As I have seen in most of Monarto's videos/photos, not one shows a keeper in the enclosure with Permai, all the videos they are doing training behind the bars like they would with Putra Mas. At Perth the keepers were always in with her, some even riding her, so why now the distance?
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it may be Monarto’s policy. Plus insurance may require it.

i did see a picture of a keeper in the water with Burma when she arrived at Monarto though. It was a male keeper from Auckland (from his shirt).
 
Johnpaul21 said:
As I have seen in most of Monarto's videos/photos, not one shows a keeper in the enclosure with Permai, all the videos they are doing training behind the bars like they would with Putra Mas. At Perth the keepers were always in with her, some even riding her, so why now the distance?
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It's possible it just may be by chance - the keepers likely still may go in with her from time to time, but Monarto's working towards eventual protected contact with all their elephants. So there'd be less of free contact than there was at Perth. Same goes for Burma.
ZCChip said:
i did see a picture of a keeper in the water with Burma when she arrived at Monarto though. It was a male keeper from Auckland (from his shirt).
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This would have been to help her settle in. By now, Monarto are actively trying to get both Burma and Permai used to protected contact.
 
ZCChip said:
it may be Monarto’s policy. Plus insurance may require it.

i did see a picture of a keeper in the water with Burma when she arrived at Monarto though. It was a male keeper from Auckland (from his shirt).
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Jambo said:
It's possible it just may be by chance - the keepers likely still may go in with her from time to time, but Monarto's working towards eventual protected contact with all their elephants. So there'd be less of free contact than there was at Perth. Same goes for Burma.

This would have been to help her settle in. By now, Monarto are actively trying to get both Burma and Permai used to protected contact.
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Odin and Andrew (Auckland keepers) both initially worked with Burma in free contact following her import from Auckland Zoo.

In addition to helping Burma settle in, remember that the initial plan was for Burma to be on her own for some time until Permai arrived (which was then brought forward due to Permai not coping being on her own).

Going forward, the aim is for the cows to form an integrated herd and shifting to protected contact for the free contact cows ensures not only are they starting as they mean to go on; but maximising the opportunities for the cows to bond with each other - with that social interaction replacing their dependence on the keepers to run their day. When Melbourne Zoo undertook the move to PC, they reported their elephants became significantly more engaged with each other.
 
ZCChip said:
That’s another benefit for protected contact!!!
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Free contact is honestly redundant in the context of modern day elephant husbandry. Aside from what are significant risks to the safety of those working with them, protected contact promotes healthy and natural social interactions within the multigenerational herd.

For the most part, it’s a relic of the days where elephants were kept in city zoos in elephants houses, where there outdoor area was at best, a small yard. By operating in free contact, elephants could be walked around the zoo, gives rides (earn their keep) etc. I recall a former Wellington keeper noting in an interview that while the zoo’s elephant house would be considered inadequate by today’s standards, the whole zoo was effectively the elephants exhibit by virtue of their daily walks.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Free contact is honestly redundant in the context of modern day elephant husbandry. Aside from what are significant risks to the safety of those working with them, protected contact promotes healthy and natural social interactions within the multigenerational herd.

For the most part, it’s a relic of the days where elephants were kept in city zoos in elephants houses, where there outdoor area was at best, a small yard. By operating in free contact, elephants could be walked around the zoo, gives rides (earn their keep) etc. I recall a former Wellington keeper noting in an interview that while the zoo’s elephant house would be considered inadequate by today’s standards, the whole zoo was effectively the elephants exhibit by virtue of their daily walks.
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It still happens in certain instances. Lucy at Edmonton, Canada for one. Lion country safari, Ringling (with the elephants they have left), Carson and Barnes center in Oklahoma, and other small zoos/establishments that are not AZA certified.

so that’s understandable about the whole zoo being the elephant’s “exhibit”.
 
ZCChip said:
It still happens in certain instances. Lucy at Edmonton, Canada for one. Lion country safari, Ringling (with the elephants they have left), Carson and Barnes center in Oklahoma, and other small zoos/establishments that are not AZA certified.

so that’s understandable about the whole zoo being the elephant’s “exhibit”.
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Auckland Zoo used to walk their elephants around the zoo during visitor hours, which was exciting to see if you were there at the time. They continued the walks up until the elephants left, but conducted them outside of visitor hours from the 2010’s onwards for health and safety reasons.

Taronga would also walk their cows through the zoo (outside of visitor hours), but both they and Melbourne ceased free contact following the 2012 incident with Pathi Harn at Taronga Zoo.
 
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