Australian Elephants and the Program.

Hix said:
Burma might have ended up in the best situation possible, but what about the other elephants? What if Burma seriously injured one of the new elephants? You'd now be complaining that the zoo should have known better and that an elephant was unnecessarily injured.



That's true, but the people who work with elephants are in a better position to predict what would happen and weigh up the pros and cons - and risks.
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I agree with you Hixy, no body knows each animal better than their keepers and any risk should be their call. If any animals did become injured the animal rights groups would jump on the band wagon about no animals in zoos, it would feed right into their hands.
 
Steve Robinson said:
I have known Arna since she was my shoulder height and I have never known her to meet any of the Ashton elephants until Gigi came to stay.

No - the Ashton girls did not spend any time on my show.
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Maybe another families elephants, I remember Animal liberation criticising Stardust because they had other elephants visit from another circus.

With regards to them being on your show (or not) I'm just trying to figure out who brought them to town when I saw them as Ashton's were no longer touring, but it was an Ashton's truck that came with the circus. . . from memory.
 
Steve Robinson said:
And, for the record, I don't think that Taronga should have left Burma and Heman at Taronga. I think that ALL the Asians should have gone to Dubbo. But what would "trailer trash" know??? LOL!
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not a bad idea there, dubbo I assume would have the area to cater for a large amount of elephants. Australia doesn't have the large herds like some zoos have in europe that some contain up to 15 members. Now that is something I'd really want to see in Australia.
 
dragon(ele)nerd said:
not a bad idea there, dubbo I assume would have the area to cater for a large amount of elephants. Australia doesn't have the large herds like some zoos have in europe that some contain up to 15 members. Now that is something I'd really want to see in Australia.
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Western Plains Zoo at Dubbo is HUGE, you should go and have a look ;)
 
Steve Robinson said:
There are 4 circuses operating in Melbourne today and a fifth is on it's way to Melbourne via Gippsland. A sixth has just left Melbourne and is at Benalla today.
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the stardust circus, which has now moved on to shepparton was in benella just the other day and has come with performing monkeys, lions, dogs and horses.

i personally have no problem with animals in entertainment as long as positive reinforcement is used, animal cruelty is excluded from training sessions and the animal's living area is adequate.

if the simple steps mentioned above were followed then i believe that a lot more people would see animal entertainment in a different light. i am not making any aqusations against any traditional circus or animal trainers but i think a lot could be done to better the lives of the animals.

anyone who says that elephants are sociable animals are right, but like many other people mentioned, the animals don't necasarily need the company of their own kind. i admit that it would be better if the elephant had its own kind for company but like in burmas case not all animals (even the same species) are compatible.

the animal would also fret if it was taken away from what it had known. if anyone saw the episode of the zoo where arna and gigi were being offloaded the circus truck to live out the rest of their life at dubbo zoo you would have seen the tears rolling down their trainers eyes. and when the truck left, arna and gigi followed it to the end of the fence.
 
speaking of saigon. aca just showed a story on saigon, australias last circus elephant. lorainne maynard said herself that saigon wouldn't get along with differnt elephants
 
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Just saw the ACA show here in queensland. I'm was pleased with what could easily have been a very biased story. They gave Lorraine a good chance to get her arguement across.
 
I just watched, and although they allowed Lorraine to speak I still found it very one sided. And the fact that they are linking a petition to 'rescue' Saigon from the ACA website, is very well, ACA.
 
ZYBen said:
I just watched, and although they allowed Lorraine to speak I still found it very one sided. And the fact that they are linking a petition to 'rescue' Saigon from the ACA website, is very well, ACA.
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the story did lean toward the animal libbers side quite a bit.
 
Yep and in traditional animal libber fashion they didnt let Lorrainne finish her sentances.
And they don't seem the think that a family that has held elephants for what did Lorrainne say, 72 years, has any experience in Elephant Care.
Its typical animal libber BS.
 
ZYBen said:
Yep and in traditional animal libber fashion they didnt let Lorrainne finish her sentances.
And they don't seem the think that a family that has held elephants for what did Lorrainne say, 72 years, has any experience in Elephant Care.
Its typical animal libber BS.
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i think that sums up what an animal libber is these days. i think whatever lorrainne said went through one the animal libbers ears and out the other. to correctly judge the situation you need to know both sides of the story.
 
ZYBen said:
I just watched, and although they allowed Lorraine to speak I still found it very one sided. And the fact that they are linking a petition to 'rescue' Saigon from the ACA website, is very well, ACA.
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No doubt that they were biased but it could have been a lot more so.
 
Thats very true Jay, its a shame, all (well most) of the circus people I have met have been wonderful people, really nice and welcoming. I have no doubt this continues to animals.
 
I've met Lorraine, several Ashtons and though he probably doesn't remember, Steve and I have no doubt whatso ever of all of their care, love and experience with animals. I just wish that the animal libbers could be a little less judgemental and idealistic because they also do care very much for animals. The show last night did mention that certain animals tend to be 'picked' on eg the animal rights don't seem to worry about horses being tethered for intance.
 
Saving Saigon, Australia's last circus elephant

A link to the video

"Animals Australia has considered raising money to buy Saigon and send her to a zoo, perhaps dubbo"

This comment frustrates me - it shows just how little animals Australia know. If they were serious they would have looked into this and most likely been told that Dubbo has no more room for elephants. with three enclosures for elephants the also hold three groups - and if Saigon didn't get on with Arna and Gigi OR Burma then the zoo would be stuffed. There is nowhere for this elephant but with the family.
 
Jarkari said:
Saving Saigon, Australia's last circus elephant

A link to the video

"Animals Australia has considered raising money to buy Saigon and send her to a zoo, perhaps dubbo"

This comment frustrates me - it shows just how little animals Australia know. If they were serious they would have looked into this and most likely been told that Dubbo has no more room for elephants. with three enclosures for elephants the also hold three groups - and if Saigon didn't get on with Arna and Gigi OR Burma then the zoo would be stuffed. There is nowhere for this elephant but with the family.
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There is also the assumption that a zoo would automatically want her, as if the zoos wouldn't have a choice.
 
I saw this story and actually thought Lorraine came across as an ignorant and uneducated. She tried to use the "oh but budgies are in a cage and so are parrots...so what's wrong with this" When that was replied with "Birds in cages are wrong as well" she didn't know where to go.

Yeah, circuses are great. Wish I could stand outside all night with teenage boys throwing beer bottles at me.....ace, where do I sign up for that!.

What is the problem you guys have with "animal libbers" They actually have incredible compassion for all creatures great and small and just want suffering (mental and physical) to end They see animals as individuals, not bank cheques. They don't want to hurt you, they want the animals to have fulfilling lives...not just lives that are governed by humans.
 
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