Aviculturalists?.....

"Does Ara actually have an ara?" Unfortunately, no. I'm a phony; never had a macaw, but I live in hope.

With regards to mice, I've got no excuse. Every book I read before I built my aviaries stressed how important it was to exclude rodents, but being a know-all I thought "huh - what harm can a few mice do?" Stupid! They eat seed, spoil seed by urinating and defecating on it and spread disease that way, run around at night and scare timid birds, take over occupancy of nests and nest boxes and, if that's not enough, they attract unwanted visitors such as owls and snakes. There's been a big red-bellied black snake hanging around my aviaries all summer so far.
 
An old aviculturalist (now passed on to that big walkthrough in the sky) once told me "If you're gonna keep birds, you're gonna have mice. Just accept it".

As you said, mouseproofing is easier said than done (and years ago it was even harder). But it's that rats that piss me off - even one will kill a largish parrot. Actually found a black rat in a finch nestbox last Sunday - luickily the box was not being used and all birds are accounted for.

And in th last four months I've pulled two diamond pythons out of the aviary, last year I had a couple of red-bellies get in, eat a few mice and be unable to get out again. And two years ago I walked in on a Red-belly swallowing a female King Quail.

:p

Hix
 
And the cost of owning a big aviary complex is not just the construction. You need to purchase the birds, feed them, take them to a vet etc etc. I know from some friends that breed birds semi-professionally that the cost for maintaining a big parrot is 500 euro on average a year.

And keeping mouse out is hard or you have to move to an indoor system and even then it is hard (but not possible). Snakes are in Europe less of a problem, but I lost a good pair of Western Rosellas to one long time ago and half of my weaver collection after returning from my holidays.
 
Hix said:
An old aviculturalist (now passed on to that big walkthrough in the sky) once told me "If you're gonna keep birds, you're gonna have mice. Just accept it".

As you said, mouseproofing is easier said than done (and years ago it was even harder).
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there is still many ways they can get in - but DEFINITELY go with the smaller mouse/snakeproof wire. it makes keeping them out difficult as opposed to impossible.

the only downer is that i find it makes viewing the birds a bit more difficult, as the mesh is so fine. but its still worth it.
 
Hix said:
An old aviculturalist (now passed on to that big walkthrough in the sky) once told me "If you're gonna keep birds, you're gonna have mice. Just accept it".
That is very true. They are of course attracted in the first place by the birdseed and other spilt food. Its just the same if you keep Poultry- though they normally attract Rats because of the larger grain size.
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So, what's the situation with vermin in zoos? They obviously have them. I've seen some quite big rats at Taronga in the past. How do they deal with them?
 
Ara said:
So, what's the situation with vermin in zoos? They obviously have them. How do they deal with them?
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Rodents? Bait stations, collapsing and/or watering holes, removing unused food at the end of the day, even the addition of kookaburras into an aviary of compatible birds has been useful.

At the end of the day they are a bit like the poor - they'll always be with us!
 
Ara said:
So, what's the situation with vermin in zoos? They obviously have them. I've seen some quite big rats at Taronga in the past. How do they deal with them?
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There are plenty in some UK zoos. I saw several in the Aviaries at Colchester recently. Nearby is a rather stagnant lake and an area closed off to visitors which is probably a good reservoir for them to breed and spread from. I guess live- trapping and baiting(outside enclosures) must be the main forms of control on a continual basis.

BTW, anyone know which is the 'common' Rat species in OZ- is it Brown Rat(Norvegicus) or the Black(ship) Rat. I know that in New Zealand it is the latter, which, amazingly, is now virtually extinct in the UK!
 
hi every one i keep with my dad
bourke parrots
elegant parrots
eclectus parrots
major mitchel cockatoo
red collard rainbow
gouldian finch
redfaced parrot finch
cuban finch
ruddy finch
king quail
cockateail
thats all for the moment once we move on the alexandrinas we will be getting either golden shoulderparrot or hoodded and diamond sparrows, and possible double bars.
 
Pertinax said:
BTW, anyone know which is the 'common' Rat species in OZ- is it Brown Rat(Norvegicus) or the Black(ship) Rat. I know that in New Zealand it is the latter, which, amazingly, is now virtually extinct in the UK!
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brown rat. although the one that lives in my roof is about to go extinct.
 
Pertinax said:
BTW, anyone know which is the 'common' Rat species in OZ- is it Brown Rat(Norvegicus) or the Black(ship) Rat. I know that in New Zealand it is the latter, which, amazingly, is now virtually extinct in the UK!
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both black and brown rats are very common in NZ, it just depends on where you look. The black rats are more of a problem for the native wildlife in-as-much as they climb well whereas brown rats are mostly terrestrial.
 
Brown Rats are the dominant species in built up areas, whereas black rats are more common away from the cities and towns.

:p

Hix
 
In the UK Black Rat is virtually extinct. On the Island of Lundy the RSPB had an eradiction programme for them, to try and save the breeding colony of Puffins for which Lundy is famous. Although there was no actual evidence in that case that the Rats actually had any effect on Puffin numbers- numerically speaking, the Rats are the rarer of the two species in the UK!
 
Imagine the backlash on a Black Rat re-introduction program. I would hate to be heading it
 
rodent control

One thing to remember when dealing with rats is that they are quick learners. So if you keep up the same type of control they will work out countermeasures, and learn to avoid whatever you are trying to kill them with. Better to work a series of "campaigns", doing something for a few weeks, stopping for a few weeks, doing something else, etc. Fortunately they have short lives, so if you can rotate though your control measures over a year or so it can be quite effective. We rarely see rats in the northern part of the sanctuary, despite the fact we have cockatoo aviaries with 50mm square wire, and feed macropods grains in open topped troughs every night. Much harder to get rid of them in the southern part of the sanctuary which is next to a creek that drains the local village.

Regarding mouse wire aviaries, the trick is to dig a small trench around the edge of the aviary, and have the wire go down about 100mm then out 100mm. Anything digging down will hit the wire and the tunnel will be turned away from the aviary. We have had such an avairy in a high-rat area for 8 years now, without incursion by rodents. It houses feathertail gliders, owlet nightjars, and in the past New Holland mice.
 
i hear a lot of aviculturalists (and i stress a lot) saying its "impossible" to have a mouse proof avairy. build it well, use concrete or brick foundations and mouseproof wire. get on your hands and knees, lie down and check every inch of your avairy once you've finished. fill every hole or gap.

no rats. no snakes. no mice.

of course mouseproof wire isn't suitable for large parrots.
 
Being a finch owner phoenix, you really would need good rodent-proofing!

Just steering the thread away from rodents, do you feed lots of insects to your birds? That to me seemed the main obstacle to keeping African finches. I had a pair of Melbas once and it was a real worry keeping up the insects to them.
 
hey ara, apparently melbas are particularly insectivorous.

i have only had my birds for a year now, and whilst i'd love to say that i've raised some chicks - i haven't. but its largely my fault. their daily staple is a very good mix of various seeds and lebanese cucumber. they show no interest in fruit, grated carrot or lettuce. they just must have their lebanese cucumber though! the cordons and saints love eating the heads off mealworms, but thats it so i rarely feed them. there would be a significant amount of bugs caught in the aviary though, its heavily planted and i have noticed whenever i water the plants the birds get excited and start hopping around in the mulch - its hard to see what they are doing but i'm pretty sure they are catching the tiny bugs that come up with the moisture. i suspect waxbills really need smaller bugs, like maggots, fruitflies and termites and i just can't deliver those things on a daily basis.

when i first got my orange breasts and fires, they nested and bred like crazy - but i was losing all the chicks. i was very busy with work and couldn't really keep a steady stream of insects. so i tried a bit of packaged softfood mix - but the birds didn't seem to show any interest in it. they continued to want to breed again and again and eventually i removed all the nesting material over winter to allow them a rest (and to save me the task of removing dead chicks from the aviary floor)

spring came arrived with glorious warm weather and i prematurely reinstated nesting materials - and lost my tamest finch - an orangebreast hen, to egg binding with a cold snap.

so far i've seen very little breeding behaviour however a number of newer birds have gone in the mix and my ratios are hardly ideal. my fires are the only birds in neat pairs of 3.3 (although i suspect one pair have never bonded). i also have a spare cock OB now, although the males don't actually fight and i think they are about to nest again.

i also have pushy bachelor pairs of saints and cordons, which probably don't help and effectively strawberries as well as my only hen arrived mostly flightless and the two boys show little interest in her (she hops around on the floor by day but manages to climb up to roost)

so basically its not a great scenario in there, but after many these and many. many other mistakes made. i'm just glad i have a stable group of birds that have been with me awhile. i have lost a number of hens of different species - virtually all have been new aquisitions that have died from stress or were already sick etc.

and i'm not even going to mention the tri coloured parrotfinches!

BUT - like i said - i am new to it all and i started to think that its okay if i don't breed everything. waxbills really only need food to feed their young. the adults are healthy on the easily acquired food (i occasionally give greed seed too). they live for quite a few years too so its not like you don't get your moneys worth.

still, i'm about to get some more birds. the odd waxbill hen again to even things up and i'm thinking about some cubans (for song, like the strawbs) and having a crack at some various parrotfinches. from what i've read they don't need live food at all.

still - i can't stress how much i adore my waxbills!
 
phoenix said:
and i'm thinking about some cubans (for song, like the strawbs) and having a crack at some various parrotfinches. from what i've read they don't need live food at all.
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Did you know that you can keep both Cuban Finch and Firefinch at liberty- if you are prepared to take the risk! Obviously you need them in an aviary without other species that don't share their 'homing' instinct.

If their main food source and water is inside the aviary, they will come and go and still roost in the aviary too. So they can be shut in at night or bad weather. When it comes to breeding, it means they can gather their own insect supplies outside giving a higher success rate for the chicks.

I've kept Firefinches at liberty in the past, but have never had Cubans. I only kept the Fires for a month before letting them out. The first time they flew away but returned within halfanhour and re-entered their aviary immediately. They move about in a little flock and will range a hundred yards or so, not much more and return to the aviary regularly.
 
i knew a guy who kept bengalese that way. but i had no idea you could with firefinches.

some say cubans can't be kept in colonies? that the males wont tolerate others? i do want some, heard they are very tame and great singers...
 
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