Toronto Zoo AZA Accreditation Denied to Toronto Zoo for 2012-13

On 27 November, 2012, the Toronto City Council will decide on whether the elephants will move out to PAWS or the proposed Florida center as Toronto Zoo has now suggested. Meanwhile on 9 November, 2012, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation has made public this letter of support for PAWS from Patrick Lampi, executive director of Alaska Zoo, the facility that sent their African Elephant named Maggie to PAWS earlier. This is the letter :

Dear Mr. Tracogna,
My name is Patrick Lampi and I am the Executive Director of the Alaska Zoo. I spent 7 years as a Keeper (several as an elephant keeper), 13 years as the General Curator and the past six as the Director. I personally went through all of the heart ache in wrestling with the decision of discontinuing exhibiting elephants, the selection of a new home and the transportation. It took years to get people to come to grips with the fact that it was the right decision to move our elephant. The PAWS facility was selected after a long vetting process. It was absolutely the correct choice. Pat Derby and Ed Stewart were excellent to work with and completely respectful of our facility, others feelings and emotions. The planning and training for the transport was a joint effort and I could not imagine it turning out any better. I have been back to PAWS since we moved Maggie down there and I will be going again. I know you are, and will be, receiving criticism for your decision. I was on the receiving end here during the entire process. I am sure a few close minded people around here still think we were wrong, but 99% of the diehard folks that were against our decision now believe that we did the right thing. So there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you have questions about our experiences or would like more information on my recommendation of the PAWS facility I would be happy to answer them.

Sincerely,

Patrick S. Lampi
Executive Director, Alaska Zoo
 
Now that the decision has finally been made, it is best to put aside all bitterness and hope the elephants have the best possible life in PAWS. As mentioned earlier, zoos and animal welfare and animal rights people do cooperate on occasions. Merry Christmas to all.


Toronto city council has voted to transfer the Toronto Zoo's three remaining elephants to a sanctuary in California before the end of the year.

A motion accepted on Tuesday night calls for Iringa, Toka and Thika to be transferred to the Performing Welfare Society sanctuary in San Andreas on or before Dec. 31.

All funding for the move is to be paid by PAWS, despite concerns raised by Toronto Zoo officials about tuberculosis at the California facility.

Council said it accepted an independent infectious disease report from Dr. Susan Cork which found that PAWS is a safe facility and meets the requirements of the due diligence process.

The motion also calls on Edmonton to take immediate action to move their 37-year-old Asian elephant Lucy to a warmer climate as soon as possible.

Toronto City Council voted last fall to send the elephants to the U.S. facility after groups voiced concern about the animals' welfare and animal activist Bob Barker promised to pay for a plane to fly the elephants to their new home.

© The Canadian Press, 2012
Toronto zoo elephants headed to California by end of the year - Toronto - CBC News
 
Now that the decision has finally been made, it is best to put aside all bitterness and hope the elephants have the best possible life in PAWS. As mentioned earlier, zoos and animal welfare and animal rights people do cooperate on occasions.

Sorry, but there was NO effort to "cooperate" with the Zoo officials on this one. I truly DO hope the elephants are fine at PAWS, though I have my doubts for them. But the real shame here is that all the decision-making was done by STUPID politicians -- not by more knowledgeable zoo officials. Whether the elephants go to PAWS or to another AZA zoo, that decision should have been made entirely by the Toronto Zoo officials -- those who have cared for and loved these elephants for years, and not used them as pawns in a big political battle. By interjecting themselves into this battle, the idiotic politicians have cost the Zoo their AZA accreditation. Good job, folks! I sure hope the voters are watching.
 
Sorry, but there was NO effort to "cooperate" with the Zoo officials on this one. I truly DO hope the elephants are fine at PAWS, though I have my doubts for them. But the real shame here is that all the decision-making was done by STUPID politicians -- not by more knowledgeable zoo officials. Whether the elephants go to PAWS or to another AZA zoo, that decision should have been made entirely by the Toronto Zoo officials -- those who have cared for and loved these elephants for years, and not used them as pawns in a big political battle. By interjecting themselves into this battle, the idiotic politicians have cost the Zoo their AZA accreditation. Good job, folks! I sure hope the voters are watching.

PAWS has a stellar track record of fine cooperation with all zoos hat have decided to send them elephants (see letter above from Pat Lampi, and I know that cooperation with Detroit zoo was also great). PAWS even cooperates good with zoos that never send them elephants (see letter above from Oakland Zoo, and they let their trailer to San Diego Zoo to move two female circus elephants to San Diego). Looks like whatever went wrong here may not be the fault of PAWS staff alone.

The decision making was done by the board who legally owns the zoo. This is a first in the history of zoos that zoo friends and staff deny the legal owner (the city of Toronto) the right to make mayor decisions! The "stupid, idiotic politicans" are democratically elected to make decisions that concern the city. They are doing their job, and I applaud them for not bowing under the pressure of the AZA and the zoo industry.

After what has happened in the last year, you can seriously argue who is using the elephants as pawns in a political battle.
 
Yet, seriously under qualified to make/pass judgement on animal welfare or animal management issues in a zoological parks setting. :mad: :eek:
 
and I applaud them for not bowing under the pressure of the AZA and the zoo industry.

May I gently remind you that the AZA (and CAZA) and the zoo industry are our friends. They are the ones who have been faithfully caring for the animals, including these elephants. While PAWS may not be our "enemies", they are definitely allied with our enemies -- those whose ultimate goal is to shut down all zoos.

By the way, when I talked about "stupid" politicians, at least Toronto has one politician who is not stupid:
Councillor vows to fight transfer of Toronto Zoo?s African elephants - The Globe and Mail

Once again, it's not PAWS that we object to. It's that the decision on the elephant's welfare was made by politicians (who know nothing about animal care) instead of by the professional zoo officials.
 
The "stupid, idiotic politicans" are democratically elected to make decisions that concern the city. They are doing their job, and I applaud them for not bowing under the pressure of the AZA and the zoo industry.

I have stated my opinion one to many times about this issue, however, this I had to respond to. May I remind you that Rob Ford was elected at the City of Toronto mayor, and, in my opinion, as well as the majority of others, he is a "stupid, idiotic politician" who does not do his job. If one was elected who is it to say others were not?

Just my two cents worth.
 
May I gently remind you that the AZA (and CAZA) and the zoo industry are our friends. They are the ones who have been faithfully caring for the animals, including these elephants. While PAWS may not be our "enemies", they are definitely allied with our enemies -- those whose ultimate goal is to shut down all zoos.

I am, above all, an animal lover who is interested in the welfare of animals, in this case elephants. I am not a "friend" of the AZA as a whole as long as they allow members to make decisions and allow practises that are in contradiction with animal welfare and the mission to build up a self-sustaining population of elephants in zoos. A lot of AZA zoos do great work, including with their elephants, but there ARE problems. And the AZA is more concerned with protecting their interests and throwing dirt on the elephant sanctuaries instead of getting issues in their own zoos in order. Which, actually, would help a great deal to shut up AR groups that want to close all zoos.

By the way, PAWS is faithfully caring for a lot of animals too, animals like hybrid tigers and TB-exposed elephants that no zoo wants.
 
I have stated my opinion one to many times about this issue, however, this I had to respond to. May I remind you that Rob Ford was elected at the City of Toronto mayor, and, in my opinion, as well as the majority of others, he is a "stupid, idiotic politician" who does not do his job. If one was elected who is it to say others were not?

Are you suggesting many or all elected politicans are useless, stupid and corrupt because one may be? That kind of thinking would be the end of the democratic system we have in the western world and I hope that is not what you are really believing.
 
May I gently remind you that the AZA (and CAZA) and the zoo industry are our friends.

May I remind you that AZA, EAZA, SEAZA are nothing but associations of zoos, their boards made up of zoo representatives, who follow their own interests.
Reading their animal policy ist like reading the ten commandments for animal love and husbandry.
But they shouldn't be taken too serious, as you will find no support from them in cases where a member simply ignores the rules.
That's why I would opt for politicians as second choice in the decision making of a zoo like Toronto.
My first choice for disputed cases would be a board of neutral professionals, that should be available for any reputable zoo in the world.

Perhaps this would also help to reduce the number of >enemies< as you call them.
 
That's why I would opt for politicians as second choice in the decision making of a zoo like Toronto.
Perhaps this would also help to reduce the number of >enemies< as you call them.

Omigosh -- you trust politicians more than zoo officials! Wow! By the way, I call them "enemies" because they are determined to destroy what we love, zoos. I speaking of the alliance of PETA, IDA, Hancocks, and their ilk. They claim to love animals, but their actions show that their one and only goal is to close down all zoos, worldwide. Any time we surrender to them, or even LISTEN to them, we are stupid. One reason that politicians should NOT be a part of zoo decisions is that they really DO listen to, and care about, what the radical anti-zoo alliance folks are saying. They think that by trying to appease the PETA/IDA-folks, they may be winning over a few votes for their next election. The AZA/CAZA leaders really don't care what PETA is saying -- and that's the right response. Put them on ignore!

If I'm a little bit overly negative against politicians, it may be because I live in the United States of America, which has recently been infested with ultra-stupid politicians.
 
If I'm a little bit overly negative against politicians, it may be because I live in the United States of America, which has recently been infested with ultra-stupid politicians.

Yes, the influx of science and logic-denying Tea Partyers and apologists for the the 1% have certainly lowered the bar in this country....but I'm guessing that's not what you are referring to!
 
Yes, the influx of science and logic-denying Tea Partyers and apologists for the the 1% have certainly lowered the bar in this country....but I'm guessing that's not what you are referring to!

We have enough stupid politicians on BOTH sides here in the USA.
 
It may be helpful to watch the two recent documentaries on elephants in captivity for a balanced perspective on the debate. The CBC one is available on vimeo here :
[ame=http://vimeo.com/53512233]Private Video on Vimeo[/ame]
Password : 5thelephants

Also the recent documentary made by Seattle Times in concurrence with the investigative report on zoo elephants in USA conducted by Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, Michael Berens. Glamour Beasts, the dark side of elephant captivity.
Link : Glamour Beasts: The dark side of elephant captivity | Special reports pages | The Seattle Times

Regarding radicalism, it is interesting to note the commentary of Danny Westneat in the same newspaper. This is an extract : "Keeping elephants in captivity clearly isn't working. This is true regardless of how you feel about animal rights or welfare. As Seattle Times reporter Michael Berens documented, getting elephants to reproduce in captivity is so problematic that zoo elephants are going extinct. For each of the past 50 years, zoo births have never exceeded deaths. For each one born, two die. So even if you have no qualms about it, it isn't succeeding. Locally, the story is cringe-worthy. Berens revealed that Woodland Park Zoo has artificially inseminated the elephant Chai 112 times without a birth. Then there's a sure sign the zoos know they have a problem. They are resorting to spin and PR campaigns to attack their critics. Berens described one: When the Association of Zoos and Aquariums decided that, despite a soaring elephant death toll, they were going to "speak and act with a unified voice" in claiming the elephants were thriving. Central to the plan was marginalizing critics of elephant captivity as "extremists." It wasn't long before that was put into action here. A member of the Woodland Park Zoo board used that exact phrasing in a letter to the Seattle City Council, which Fortgang shared with me. It claimed activists here were essentially a front for an "organized, well-funded movement by animal rights extremist groups" with the sole mission to "attack zoos."One councilman, Richard Conlin, fired back. He scolded the zoo for using "the pejorative 'extremist' " as a blunt instrument to beat down legitimate questions." The full article can be viewed here :

Elephant 'extremists' in Seattle now feeling vindicated | Danny Westneat | The Seattle Times

Regarding zoo directors and curators like David Hancocks, Ron Kagan, Colleen Kinzley and Patrick Lampi, none of them have ever said they want to close down all zoos when they have cooperated/cooperate with animal rights/welfare people. They have only showed a willingness to engage with the animal welfare/rights organisations who have a legitimate viewpoint as much as proponents of keeping elephants in captivity in zoos and circuses.
These are the statements on Oakland Zoo from In Defense of Animals and PETA.

"Director Joel Parrott has gone out of his way to improve the quality of life there," said Elliot Katz, president of Mill Valley's In Defense of Animals."

Nicole Meyer, elephant specialist with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said, "PETA does not believe elephants belong in captivity, but we recognize Oakland's efforts to provide more space. And the Oakland Zoo has pioneered protected contact, while other zoos are beating elephants with bull hooks."

David Hancocks' book 'A DIFFERENT NATURE : The Paradoxical World of Zoos and Their Uncertain Future' is a summary of his views on what zoos are and what they ought to be. Closing down all zoos is not an idea he has mentioned in the book, nor anywhere else. It is a book that ought to be read by anyone with even a passing interest in zoos. It is a classic book on zoos, although he remains opposed to displaying animals like elephants, polar bears and cetaceans in zoos.
 
Please click on the first link that says 'Private Video on Vimeo' to access the vimeo video. CBC has shared it after their 'The Elephant In The Room' programme went on air. The embedding message is a technical problem.
 
It may be helpful to watch the two recent documentaries on elephants in captivity for a balanced perspective on the debate.

Yeah, I'm sure your videos are very "balanced", Chungri. Your only reason for coming here to ZooChat has been to bash the Toronto Zoo and its efforts to keep the elephants in an AZA accreditted zoo environment.

David Hancocks ... although he remains opposed to displaying animals like elephants, polar bears and cetaceans in zoos.

Sorry, but that opinion in itself is "radical" and "extremist". No one is saying that all zoo exhibits of elephants (or polar bears) are perfect, and certainly there are some problems. There are some zoos that clearly should not be exhibiting elephants, and perhaps Toronto is one of them. But when you take the opinion, and advance it, that NO zoo should have elephants, then you are denying the excellence of great elephant habitats in Oakland, North Carolina, Los Angeles, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Beauval, Copenhagen, and elsewhere.

You may never understand this, but I personally am eternally grateful that I have been able to see real elephants with my own eyes -- without having to spend thousands of dollars traveling to Africa or Asia. I'm even more grateful that my children have had this opportunity. If Hancocks, PETA, IDA, and you get your way, my grandchildren will never get this chance.
 
If an opinion is "radical" or "extremist" is, well, a matter of opinion...
which does not mean that I agree with Hancocks, at least not in regards to elephants. He may be right when it comes to polar bears and anything larger then dolphins.
 
What I don't understand is WHY do these Animal Rights advocates come here to a ZOO bulletin board, just to annoy us? How many of you zoo fans spend time going to Animal Rights bulletin boards, posting contrary anti-PETA messages -- just to annoy them?
 
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