Werribee Open Range Zoo Baby hippo at werribee

Ara said:
I know that hippos in the wild live in herds (pods? mobs? groups?) and so people prefer to see them in the same way in zoos, but in view of their scarcity in this region every individual is vital. Females should therefore be housed individually and the male introduced to them under supervision to maximise the chances for any resultant young.

Hippos in the wild kill each others babies. It is negligent to allow them to do so in captivity.
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So are you saying that males kill their own offspring?
by the way a group of hippos is a pod or a herd
 
No, I'm not saying that males deliberately kill their own offspring, but hippos are quite rough with each other and in the confined space of a zoo enclosure accidents can happen. It's not a situation that should be risked in this region - every individual is too important. I have seen chilling footage of a male hippo catching and killing a young one in the wild. It was brutal. Also, there was an incident in a British zoo where a half grown male killed his own mother.

I know that it's unnatural to keep them singly (hell, its "unnatural" to keep them in zoos, if you want to be a purist) and when we build up the numbers in this region is the time to keep them in pods or herds. (Thanks for that pods/herds stuff, too.)
 
hippos are said to not form permanent bonds in the wild, though clearly they are social animals, choosing to more often than not at form loose aggregations.

certainly too they are aggressive animals, and fights can easily turn fatal especially in the confined spaces of zoos where the submissive animal cannot get away from the dominant one.

thus, i think the answer is to respond to their "loose" lifestyle with an equally "loose" policy in zoos. do whatever works.

"kubu river" at werribee works well for this reason. it has 3 separate exhibits that appear to be in the one stretch of river. the zoo's hippo are in constant visual and audible range from eachother but are separated due to their history of incompatibility and for controlled breeding reasons. i doubt very much they feel "lonely". the mother/calf bond between primrose/tulip is strong and thus these two are kept together. so long as they don't ever fight or tulip fight with the new calf this may as well remain.

flexibility. seems the answer to everything when it comes to animals.

my hope for the future is that werribee eventually get another male from cairns, who they breed with brindabella and tulip. meanwhile harry and primrose can move back to the drive-through dams.

its got a really great setup.
 
Ara said:
No, I'm not saying that males deliberately kill their own offspring, but hippos are quite rough with each other and in the confined space of a zoo enclosure accidents can happen. It's not a situation that should be risked in this region - every individual is too important. I have seen chilling footage of a male hippo catching and killing a young one in the wild. It was brutal. Also, there was an incident in a British zoo where a half grown male killed his own mother.

I know that it's unnatural to keep them singly (hell, its "unnatural" to keep them in zoos, if you want to be a purist) and when we build up the numbers in this region is the time to keep them in pods or herds. (Thanks for that pods/herds stuff, too.)
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This stress you talk about is fascinating. Hippos yes willget stress under condistions of a zoo but will they get so stress that they will kill another hippo. Or do they simply become so aggresive that they don't control their actions such as when and elephant bull goes into Musth.
 
patrick said:
flexibility. seems the answer to everything when it comes to animals.

my hope for the future is that werribee eventually get another male from cairns, who they breed with brindabella and tulip. meanwhile harry and primrose can move back to the drive-through dams.

its got a really great setup.
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Can you tell me more about this hippo coming down from Cairns?
 
there is no confirmation at this stage of any transfer. is Cairns Wildlife Safari even accreditited by ARAZPA yet?
there was talk of a male being transferred from Western Plains Zoo. if any hippo are to leave CWS anytime soon it will probably be to Seaworld for its proposed hippo exhibit.
 
glyn said:
if any hippo are to leave CWS anytime soon it will probably be to Seaworld for its proposed hippo exhibit.
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well there are 3 animals at cairns and one recommended dubbo/werribee pairing. thats four potential new pairings and four zoos to distribute that amongst (cairns, seaworld, werribee and dubbo).
 
glyn said:
there is no confirmation at this stage of any transfer. is Cairns Wildlife Safari even accreditited by ARAZPA yet?
there was talk of a male being transferred from Western Plains Zoo. if any hippo are to leave CWS anytime soon it will probably be to Seaworld for its proposed hippo exhibit.
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Amazing seaworld is getting a hippo exhibit?! So it is only talk that there will be a transfer or is there a confirm but the individual hippo hasn't been confirmed?
 
the individual hippo would have been selected already based on bloodlines, age and sex as per breeding recommendations.
the transfer may follow on from there. but thats a logisitical exercise the zoos need to work out some point down the track.
 
glyn said:
the individual hippo would have been selected already based on bloodlines, age and sex as per breeding recommendations.
the transfer may follow on from there. but thats a logisitical exercise the zoos need to work out some point down the track.
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So selection is based on the aperance and bloodlines. Are hippo born in the wild more valuable or are the ones born in captivity are?
 
age, sex and bloodlines has nothing to do with appearance (how the animal "looks").

are hippo born in the wild more valuable than those born in zoos? it all depends how much genetic diversity (different bloodlines) there are in a captive population. if there are few, then ANY new bloodline is valuable, wether it be born in the wild or not. in cases of species uncommon in zoos, often the few animals there are are related, (even if they are scattered all over the world). thus a wild-born animal is the only way to get new blood and the term "wild-born" is often mentioned in regards to their value.
 
for example.... if a gorilla was supposed to be moved to taronga zoo from melbourne to breed, but then just before departure the vet says, "you know what, i just noticed, that animal looks diseased, better take that one instead"... and points to another?

sure....
 
I know what dragon nerd means. Though for breeding recommendations, thing such as appearance would have little to do with breeding, nor movement for breeding, if a pairing needs to occur, as long as both participating institutions follow along, then it will occur.

But i spose for exhibit purposes, if an animal looked unwell, or 'shabby' that animal could be held off exhibit for a while and be given extra attention, ie vert checks, blood smaples, and maybe even a clean. By shabby, or diseased, i asume you mean hair falling out, maybe a runny nose, basically un appealing apperance for the public, and animal may be lacking in a vitamen, and may certainly be tested for it, and supplementted or diet changed for it.

If you were going to import an animal from overseas for education purposes, hence exhibit purposes, most zoos would very well 'select' the best looking ones, as they would not go to the trouble to import an unappelaing animal, but rather asses the animals health and see if its due to diet or treatemnt at the institute it's at- maybe under nourished and you see ribs.

But if an animal did look unwell, and changed in condition before an imidiate move, then it would not be moved, and would be assesed before any de[ature.
 
Zoo_Boy said:
I know what dragon nerd means. Though for breeding recommendations, thing such as appearance would have little to do with breeding, nor movement for breeding, if a pairing needs to occur, as long as both participating institutions follow along, then it will occur.

But i spose for exhibit purposes, if an animal looked unwell, or 'shabby' that animal could be held off exhibit for a while and be given extra attention, ie vert checks, blood smaples, and maybe even a clean. By shabby, or diseased, i asume you mean hair falling out, maybe a runny nose, basically un appealing apperance for the public, and animal may be lacking in a vitamen, and may certainly be tested for it, and supplementted or diet changed for it.

If you were going to import an animal from overseas for education purposes, hence exhibit purposes, most zoos would very well 'select' the best looking ones, as they would not go to the trouble to import an unappelaing animal, but rather asses the animals health and see if its due to diet or treatemnt at the institute it's at- maybe under nourished and you see ribs.

But if an animal did look unwell, and changed in condition before an imidiate move, then it would not be moved, and would be assesed before any de[ature.
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Zooboy has given new insight most people just like the experince of seeing animals but the good looking ones that for example cause trouble in a zoo and they have to be relocated will be just for show ( if they aren't a proven breeder) Though some breeding individuals may look not so much shabby in a dieseased was but shabby for instance ugly that individual would possibly be off exhibit to the public eye and paired up. Then agian there are some instances in where some zoos put there breeding individuals off exhibit because zoos are a major attraction for young kids.

But thank you both again.
 
Arrrr- i will pull you up on one thing- don't say just for show- that would be for commercial resons then, say for education exhibitation purposes.

Often, if animals have the best care, they will not be 'ugly', rather thick, heathly coats, and be provided shelter from weather, and other aniamls to keep them socially heathly- ie not stress to loose condition.

But often animals that apprear shabby, are often healthy. For example, did you know in chimp society, you will often find one animal with very little hair. You may think 'ew yuck' ,or even that individual is sick, but rather than animal is actually the healthiest.

In chimp society, they groome each other to rid parasites, and for social bonding. The most dominant animal will also have the least hair, as it will be the animal most groomed by it's fellow troop members. As a result of the grooming behavior, hair is also removed.

So the baldest chimp,most unattractive in someones opinions, could actually very well be the healthiest, and in the best social position.
 
boys, go talk about your hypothetical scenarios in which zoos might substitute an "ugly" animals for a "good-looking" specimen someplace else....

*patrick walks them to the door*
 
Zoo_Boy said:
Arrrr- i will pull you up on one thing- don't say just for show- that would be for commercial resons then, say for education exhibitation purposes. QUOTE]

Sorry i'll stop trying -Jonathan puts head down behind door-
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