ZSL London Zoo Bank Holiday at London Zoo

Tim May

Tim May

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
Interesting Pathe film of London Zoo from about a century ago.

I think the gorilla is "John Daniel" in one of the outdoor cages of the old Lion House.

It's also interesting, about a minute from the end, to see the old 1864 Monkey House, which was demolished to make way for the 1927 Monkey House (which many of the older ZooChat members remember).

 
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Tim May said:
Interesting Pathe film of London Zoo from about a century ago.

I think the gorilla is "John Daniel" in one of the outdoor cages of the old Lion House.

It's also interesting, about a minute from the end, to see the old 1864 Monkey House, which was demolished to make way for the 1927 Monkey House (which many of the older ZooChat members remember).

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Nice to see Monkey Hill. I remember the 1927 Monkey House
 
Tim May said:
Interesting Pathe film of London Zoo from about a century ago.

I think the gorilla is "John Daniel" in one of the outdoor cages of the old Lion House.

It's also interesting, about a minute from the end, to see the old 1864 Monkey House, which was demolished to make way for the 1927 Monkey House (which many of the older ZooChat members remember).

Click to expand...
It’s amazing that every adult in the the film is wearing a hat I don’t think I saw any adult any ware with out some sort of hat ? Maybe it was a wear a hat promotion day :)
 
There used to be a cartoon for London Transport. Nearly all the passengers were wearing hats.
 
Solly Zuckerman wrote a book based on the baboons on Monkey Hill. He assumed that the baboons' behaviour represented their natural behaviour.
 
Thanks for posting this, Tim. Very interesting.

Does any of what we see in the film still exist at the zoo? Where was Monkey Hill relative to today's zoo?

Was there an actual elephant exhibit at the time of this film, or were the elephants doing rides all day and that was the elephant exhibit?
 
Tim May said:
Interesting Pathe film of London Zoo from about a century ago.

I think the gorilla is "John Daniel" in one of the outdoor cages of the old Lion House.

It's also interesting, about a minute from the end, to see the old 1864 Monkey House, which was demolished to make way for the 1927 Monkey House (which many of the older ZooChat members remember).

Click to expand...
The gorilla would have been John Daniel if the film was taken in 1920 (the clip indicates the footage was taken over a number of years). John Daniel's life is fairly well recorded; he was bought from the London Derry & Toms department store (where he had been displayed in a store window) by Major Rupert Cunningham as a gift for his spinster aunt, Aylee Cunningham, who reared him as a cild in their London home at 15 Sloane Street, and their summer home in the village of Uley. John Daniel used to be taken to the Zoo by taxi and displayed in one of the cages of the old Lion House, as shown in the film. His death was tragic as he was sold on the understanding he was going to a park in the USA, only to find he had been obtained by Barnum and Bailey's circus. He pined for his owner and died before Aylee completed her sea crossing to the States.

But Aylee obtained a second gorilla, John Daniel II, in 1924 and he did tour with Ringling's Circus in America for a year, with his owner, and then through Europe. I have not been able to substantiate if John Daniel II was exhibited at London Zoo, but he died when in London in 1927.

And regarding later posts, of course people wore their best clothes to visit the Zoo, especially on Sundays and Bank Holidays. And everyone wore hats, and men ties.
 
DavidBrown said:
Does any of what we see in the film still exist at the zoo? Where was Monkey Hill relative to today's zoo?
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None of the buildings that can be seen on this film are still standing.

Monkey Hill was behind the Mappin Terraces in a part of the zoo that is now not accessible to visitors.

DavidBrown said:
Was there an actual elephant exhibit at the time of this film, or were the elephants doing rides all day and that was the elephant exhibit?
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At the time this film was made, the Elephant House of 1869 was still standing; it was roughly where the Clore Pavilion now stands. This old Elephant House was demolished shortly before the Second World War.
 
zooboy said:
The gorilla would have been John Daniel if the film was taken in 1920 (the clip indicates the footage was taken over a number of years). John Daniel's life is fairly well recorded; he was bought from the London Derry & Toms department store (where he had been displayed in a store window) by Major Rupert Cunningham as a gift for his spinster aunt, Aylee Cunningham, who reared him as a cild in their London home at 15 Sloane Street, and their summer home in the village of Uley. John Daniel used to be taken to the Zoo by taxi and displayed in one of the cages of the old Lion House, as shown in the film. His death was tragic as he was sold on the understanding he was going to a park in the USA, only to find he had been obtained by Barnum and Bailey's circus. He pined for his owner and died before Aylee completed her sea crossing to the States.
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Indeed a tragic tale. After John Daniel's death his body was presented to the American Museum of Natural History in New York where (I think) his mounted skin is still on exhibit.
 
FBBird said:
He was a man of his time, and it may be a mistake to judge him by 21st Century standards
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Yes and I agree it is not appropriate to use 21st Century standards in all cases.

However, important to consider that Gerald Durrell and John Aspinall were for much of the later 20th century his contemporaries and neither of them had anything positive to say about Zuckermann.

By all accounts that I've read Zuckermann was a very unpleasant man and to some extent ZSL are still feeling the negative impacts of his legacy.
 
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Dassie rat said:
Solly Zuckerman wrote a book based on the baboons on Monkey Hill. He assumed that the baboons' behaviour represented their natural behaviour.
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The Monkey Hill footage is particularly interesting. It stood as Tim May says, behind the Mappins, where the Animal Hospital, Pathology and service yards now are. At one time there were something like around 100 male baboons and nine (yes nine) females. They were hardly likely to display much natural behaviour under those circumstances, but there would have been a lot of fighting.
 
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The crowds you see in this clip are from a bygone age-I don't think you will ever see crowds like that in London zoo again nowadays.
 
Pertinax said:
The crowds you see in this clip are from a bygone age-I don't think you will ever see crowds like that in London zoo again nowadays.
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Not with Social Distancing! ;)

Also interesting to see that visitor behaviour hasn’t changed in the years since this was filmed - the children running in front of the elephants brings back many memories witnessing the same thing at Whipsnade!

A long shot, but can anyone identify the elephants in this newsreel?
 
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Pertinax said:
The Monkey Hill footage is particularly interesting. It stood as Tim May says, behind the Mappins, where the Animal Hospital, Pathology and service yards now are. At one time there were something like around 100 male baboons and nine (yes nine) females. They were hardly likely to display much natural behaviour under those circumstances, but there would have been a lot of fighting.
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100 males to 9 females .... Yikes :eek: :confused:

There must have been a hell of a lot of fighting, Zuckermann must have been absolutely mad to think that this was "natural behaviour".
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
100 males to 9 females .... Yikes :eek: :confused:

There must have been a hell of a lot of fighting, Zuckermann must have been absolutely mad to think that this was "natural behaviour".
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I'm not sure of the exact number of males but it far outweighed the females. In the film clips and photos you see of them on Monkey Hill its hard to spot anything other than males. Sometimes through so many males competing to 'own' one of the few females, one would get killed. 'Fights would then rage around the body for days' ( cannot remember where this quote came from- it may have been Desmond Morris' 'Men & Apes')) before it was able to be removed...horrible and very unnatural of course. I am not sure if they weren't later replaced with Rhesus which another clip shows.
 
Pertinax said:
I'm not sure of the exact number of males but it far outweighed the females. In the film clips and photos you see of them on Monkey Hill its hard to spot anything other than males. Sometimes through so many males competing to 'own' one of the few females, one would get killed. 'Fights would then rage around the body for days' ( cannot remember where this quote came from- it may have been Desmond Morris' 'Men & Apes')) before it was able to be removed...horrible and very unnatural of course. I am not sure if they weren't later replaced with Rhesus which another clip shows.
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It sounds something like those notorious 1950's behavioural sink experiments with overpopulated rats in crowded spaces. Horrifying and I agree absolutely unnatural.
 
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