Barbary lions confirmed....at the tower menagerie

Will be alot of zoos not wanting the test done incase it shows that their Lions are not Barbary Lions,personal i would like to see it done to prove if they still exist once and for all.If they do then what a great story that would be!!!!!!!
 
This has been discussed on various threads on this Forum. Sufficient to say DNA testing has conclusively proved that even the Lions in Rabat Zoo, Morocco are NOT Barbary and originate from Central or North East Africa. As the so-called Barbary Lions in the Uk ( at Port Lympne and Belfast) originally stem from that line, it follows that they aren't pure either( in fact possibly not even a part Barbary either) Not surprisingly these zoos don't want to accept the scientific evidence telling them these unpalatable facts.

I am not sure that dna tests were done on all the Rabat Zoo Lions gh so there is a chance some of them do carry Barbary genes. However if all of them are related then it is far less likely. Also I believe Madrid Zoo claim to have equally pure Barbary Lions going back many generations and not originally from Rabat Zoo stock. These have not been tested to my knowledge.
 
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Yup Pertinax,

The London Tower research indicates the omen is not looking good for pure-bred Barbary lions in captivity. Can you direct me to the research papers regarding testing of the Barbary lions at Port Lympne and Rabat Zoos?

What is this with possible North-east African blood in Rabat lions? Where must we than pinpoint their possible origins (Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia ..., Chad)? :confused:
 
jelle said:
Yup Pertinax,

The London Tower research indicates the omen is not looking good for pure-bred Barbary lions in captivity. Can you direct me to the research papers regarding testing of the Barbary lions at Port Lympne and Rabat Zoos?

What is this with possible North-east African blood in Rabat lions? Where must we than pinpoint their possible origins (Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia ..., Chad)? :confused:
Click to expand...

There are a couple of Scientific papers dealing with research into Barbary lions(will try and source for you- or look on 'Extinction Forum' website- Barbary lion thread where they are highlighted.) Only five lions at Rabat and Port Lympne were tested but the results were quite conclusive. The Barbary has its own identified haplotype= 10(or 11?). The tested Lions( and so presumably all the related ones too) exhibit haplotypes(= 8) of lions known to be from Central Africa and/or Sudan.

Port Lympne lions originate from Washington- Washingtons came from Rabat. Port Lympne's current breeding male 'Suliman' came direct from Rabat.
Belfast's breeding trio were born at Port Lympne....
I'm still interested in the ones supposed to be held at Madrid zoo in Spain.. I don't think thery came from Rabat but are believed to have come from North Africa many generations ago.. yet they have not yet been tested.:rolleyes:
 
I'll see if I can find these papers.

I have just downloaded these two:

"Lost populations and preserving genetic diversity in the lion Panthera leo:
Implications for its ex situ conservation"

"Phenotypic and reproductive characteristics of lions (Panthera leo) at Addis Ababa Zoo"

This one I would have to send away for.

"Urgent call for further breeding of the relic zoo population of the critically endangered Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo Linnaeus 1758)"

I might be convinced to email them if I was sufficiently bribed with flattery.
 
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Jo said:
I'll see if I can find these papers.

I have just downloaded these two:

"Lost populations and preserving genetic diversity in the lion Panthera leo:
Implications for its ex situ conservation"

"Phenotypic and reproductive characteristics of lions (Panthera leo) at Addis Ababa Zoo"

This one I would have to send away for.

"Urgent call for further breeding of the relic zoo population of the critically endangered Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo Linnaeus 1758)"

I might be convinced to email them if I was sufficiently bribed with flattery.
Click to expand...

The main person involved with recent research into Barbary Lion genetics is a Japanese scientist- a Dr Yamagochi(or similar name) The findings of the DNA analysis of the Rabat lions were published in a 2006/7 paper as mentioned above- it was just a small paragraph or so dropped into a much longer scientic paper about Barbary Lion genetics/distribution etc. It is probably in either the first paper you have downloaded, or the third one which you haven't got- I don't remember the titles offhand but they sound familiar and there are only very few papers on this subject. I'm not sure there has been anything further since as he was being funded by the 'Barbary Lion' project which became defunct, so his research is now either self-funded or indefinately 'on hold' till more funding can be obtained.
 
Jo said:
I'll see if I can find these papers.

I have just downloaded these two:

"Lost populations and preserving genetic diversity in the lion Panthera leo:
Implications for its ex situ conservation"

"Phenotypic and reproductive characteristics of lions (Panthera leo) at Addis Ababa Zoo"

This one I would have to send away for.

"Urgent call for further breeding of the relic zoo population of the critically endangered Barbary lion (Panthera leo leo Linnaeus 1758)"

I might be convinced to email them if I was sufficiently bribed with flattery.
Click to expand...

Please would you be able to send on the papers by e-mail? Be much obliged. What did you have in mind for return favours?
 
Pm me your email addy jelle and I'll send them. Just telling me how wonderful I am will do, and possibly how you heard that I am more stunning than Angelina Jolie, hahaha
 
The key fact is that known Barbary lion specimens in museums have been found to have their own Haplotype -11. This is distinct from the haplotypes shown by other lions (range 1-10, according to race) but is nearest to the Asian lions. The bad news is that no zoo lions tested so far have proved to show this haplotype...:(
 
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