Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre Bart turns 11

DenApe

Active Member
Today marks 11 years since Bart was born. He is the second child of Susie (her second) and Paddy (his 4th!), two now deceased chimps who once lived in the forests of western, central or eastern Africa before being ripped from their own mothers and smuggled into the tourist resorts of Spain to be dressed up in human clothes and pose with humans as props before being rescued by Simon Templer and brought to the ape sanctuary Money World in Dorset. Back in 2006 the park made the decision to take two of the female chimps in what was still Paddy's community off birth control; Cindy who was then 27 and Susie who was about 26. The reason for this is because of the success Eddi was and having been reared naturally by her mother Susie and how much her arrival benefited the group ( bringing them together as a close family). It was decided that 5 years later another baby should added. Susie was the obvious choice because she already brought up a baby and Cindy I suppose because she was maternal towards the youngsters. For one reason or another, Cindy didn't conceive but Susie did. Considering that chimp pregnancies are 8 months long Susie must have conceived Bart around October/November 2006. She delivered a healthy male infant with characteristicly large ears, as his older sister Eddi. This must be in the genes from Paddy! Bart grew up with his chimp family and not surprisingly spoilt rotten by his mum and the other females. Change came in 2013 when he lost his mum at the tender age of 6 when Susie fell ill at the age of 33. Luckily Bart was already weaned and although it obviously had a big impact on him he pulled through the depression with the companionship of his sister Eddi, father Paddy and rest of the group. Just when things were beginning to settle down Bart faced another tragedy when his father Paddy, who was the group leader since he arrived at the park in the late '80s, lost he life to a heart-related problem at the age of 36 in 2016. This brought the dilemma of a group of 16 not having an alpha male. Bart was 9 then and not old or big enough to take charge of mature females. Since then Bart has continued to grow into a fine young chimp and at 11 now he's slowly reaching maturity. A male chimp is fully grown at just 15 and that is the age when they normally start to dominate females and take their place in the hierarchy among the adult males, although 25 is the prime age for most males to take the alpha position. This means that it would be at most another 14 years before Bart is big enough in his prime to take his father's position. Until then he seems happy to just have his family around him and enjoy the attention. Cindy, the second oldest primate at the park, seems to have taken the leadership role for now. Bart has grown into his ears and is looking very handsome. He's taking after Paddy in looks and I look forward to seeing him continue to grow and hopefully take charge of what will be his harem of females. Bart has not been castrated therefore he has all the makings of being a successful alpha male and perhaps a father himself some day.
 
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Maybe start one thread for 2018 Monkey World news? This is really an add-on to the previous thread you started about Paddy's group. Otherwise the UK forum will be clogged with small pieces of MW news, which seems unnecessary. Could this be merged with the other thread?

The ability of males to take over a group is really very different in captivity. You can't really compare with wild chimps because the situation is not the same. Hananya was only eleven, for example, which isn't unusual. Lubutu at Taronga was alpha at only eight! If there's not much competition in a captive group, a young male can become dominant. Bart has no true male competition, so it could happen at any time. He won't take 14 more years to be at his full size, nearer to 4-5. Chimpanzees don't have 'harems', their social groups are mixed-sex fission-fusion communities.

Bart is looking so much Paddy, and I think he will be a magnificent chimpanzee as he continues to mature.
 
He won't take 14 more years to be at his full size, nearer to 4-5.

Well, i watched a documentary where it stated that a male chimp is in his prime at age of 25/26. Yes he'll be full grown by 15 but most don't assume the top spot until mid 20s if there is competition. But as you said since he has no real competition he might start his reign at just 15 then.

Chimpanzees don't have 'harems', their social groups are mixed-sex fission-fusion communities.
Its a figure of speech.....if you recall episodes of Monkey Business the narrator called the females in Paddy's group 'Paddy's Harem' considering that only he had the ability to breed with them.

Hananya was only eleven, for example, which isn't unusual.
I guess that was just due to circumstance. Had there been other, older males or larger males it would not have been that easy for him to take charge. His only real competition was the only other 'intact' male in the group, the fabulous Tikko. But yes in the wild there would be no way Hananya would have taken charge that young.I also believe another factor in Hananya's favour is size. At 11 he wasn't fully mature but he has already as big as Rodney. Which means Hananya took charge at Bart's current age but then again genetics play a role. At 11 Bart isn't big enough but Hananya was
 
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Well, Monkey Business narration was not exactly scientifically accurate at times. In those days, Paco was in Paddy's 'harem' too.

A male can take over long before his prime, especially in captivity, and especially when there is no competition. It depends on so many things; the make-up of the group, and the male's personality to name a couple. Size is not a big factor, compared to social strategy and alliances. It helps to be physically impressive, but it's not the be-all and end-all. In some ways, the lack of intact allies might hold Bart back in a group filled with strong females.
 
Its a figure of speech.....if you recall episodes of Monkey Business the narrator called the females in Paddy's group 'Paddy's Harem' considering that only he had the ability to breed with them.

Technically its still not correct though. A 'harem' normally refers to a collection of females guarded or overseen by a male. With Chimps, even where there is only a single intact male, that doesn't happen, as it does with e.g. Gorillas. The definition isn't correct for the social structure of either Chimps or Orangutans, where I've seen it similarly used.
 
Can you explain the role played by genetics in this instance?

Its pretty self-explanatory but let me elaborate. Some individuals are larger than what you would expect them to be at a certain age and not because they get extra food or anything but because its genes. At 11 most male chimps would be Bart's size but because Hananya's genes are different he was larger than that. In that instance Hananya already had the size to take charge at only 11 while most males wouldn't at that age. Look at 2004 pics of Hananya and compare him to Bart now. You'll see Hananya looks way older than just 11. His size enabled him to take the top spot.

Technically its still not correct though. A 'harem' normally refers to a collection of females guarded or overseen by a male. With Chimps, even where there is only a single intact male, that doesn't happen, as it does with e.g. Gorillas. The definition isn't correct for the social structure of either Chimps or Orangutans, where I've seen it similarly used.

I was speaking figuratively! Let me rephrase.....Bart will take over a group of females and castrated males.
 
I was speaking figuratively! Let me rephrase.....Bart will take over a group of females and castrated males.

I wasn't referring to your usage of the word particularly, more its incorrect use in e.g. T.V. programmes and even Zoo publicity.
 
Not sure ‘chimp turns 11’ really counts as news :)

well.......I was expecting more enthusiasm about a chimp which I thought many of you would be fond of! I guess what really counts as news is something bad, like another chimp dying then......?
 
Most people wouldn’t consider birthdays, unless given media attention by the zoo itself to be news, certainly not needing a whole new thread.
News doesn’t have to be bad; it can be arrivals, births, animal moves, renovations, new exhibits, events.... but generally something that would be new information.
 
well.......I was expecting more enthusiasm about a chimp which I thought many of you would be fond of! I guess what really counts as news is something bad, like another chimp dying then......?
I like reading the info you’re posting, like chimps & also think what monkey world have done over the past 25+ years should be commended, however; all that said just post it in the monkey world thread which is where it belongs. If you did this for every chimp at monkey world on each & every birthday that’s going to be a bucket load of unnecessary new threads each year.
 
well.......I was expecting more enthusiasm about a chimp which I thought many of you would be fond of!

The majority of people on this forum don’t even know who Bart is...

Deaths are a lot more significant as, for an individual animal, there is only one of those. You would also probably notice that, on most threads, deaths are only mentioned for special animals (wildborn stock, first time births for that species in whichever zoo it is, last of a species in that country or continent etc). Monkey World is one of the few threads that is different in that regard, and that’s because it is run by mostly Monkey World adopters/fans.
 
The majority of people on this forum don’t even know who Bart is...

Deaths are a lot more significant as, for an individual animal, there is only one of those. You would also probably notice that, on most threads, deaths are only mentioned for special animals (wildborn stock, first time births for that species in whichever zoo it is, last of a species in that country or continent etc). Monkey World is one of the few threads that is different in that regard, and that’s because it is run by mostly Monkey World adopters/fans.

Deaths are often not mentioned even when known about for fear of upsetting a zoo! And one person’s ‘special’ may be someone else’s ‘meh!’
 
Maybe start one thread for 2018 Monkey World news? This is really an add-on to the previous thread you started about Paddy's group. Otherwise the UK forum will be clogged with small pieces of MW news, which seems unnecessary. Could this be merged with the other thread?

I like reading the info you’re posting, like chimps & also think what monkey world have done over the past 25+ years should be commended, however; all that said just post it in the monkey world thread which is where it belongs. If you did this for every chimp at monkey world on each & every birthday that’s going to be a bucket load of unnecessary new threads each year.

FWIW, I actually prefer separate threads per topic - it's much easier for people to find information when searching for it when it is not stuck in the middle of some long thread about a bunch of different items which happen to be related only because they are from the same facility. It also helps with SEO (which is related to the previous point - the whole point of SEO is to make it easier for people to find information when they are searching for it!)

I also recognise that many people also prefer to have a single thread to read and group all news together - but I can assure you that this is by no means universal. I'm happy to accommodate both approaches here - neither should be considered "wrong".

More importantly - as per the dozens of posts I have deleted from this thread attest - dragging a thread off topic is far worse than any perceived transgression from not posting in the correct place. Indeed, from my point of view - the people who posted off topic stuff in this thread have done far worse than the original poster ever could be accused of here.

So, as the last off topic post on this matter - I request that all members stick to the topic presented and if you have a problem with the thread, you should report it and let the moderators deal with it if they agree that action is required. (In this case, the answer to that would be "no" - this thread is fine).

You don't have to read threads you aren't interested in, and if you find any user particularly problematic, you can always put them on ignore.
 
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