Beauval and other European collections compared

[TeaLovingDave]

Leipzig also has a really good enclosure, particularly in terms of indoor enclosures.

I would respectfully argue there is no way the following is a better indoor exhibit for orangutan than RotRA

Saying the indoor in Leipzig is better, shows that you don't seem to know a lot about where Orangutans live, which is not in mock-rock mountains, but in trees. The Chester indoor enclosure seems to provide significantly more height and climbing opportunities than Leipzig does. Additionally Chester seems to have the option to separate Orangutans as they have multiple good indoor enclosures, which given their social behaviour is appropriate. Leipzig only has 1 on-show indoor enclosure, which seems to be made for Chimpanzee rather than for Orangutan, the same could be said for their outdoor enclosure...

Moreover, AL uses multiple photos from various angles of the single Leipzig outdoor exhibit, but only has a single shot from afar showing only one of the several outdoor exhibits at Chester

 

[amur leopard]

Saying the indoor in Leipzig is better, shows that you don't seem to know a lot about where Orangutans live, which is not in mock-rock mountains, but in trees.

And I would argue that this:

Leipzig

looks significantly more like a tree than this:

Chester:

Otherwise, I see that Chester has implemented measures to separate the apes more effectively than Leipzig, and I accept that. However, I maintain that, although there may not be 'many' that are substantially better than Chester, Chester is not head and shoulders above the rest and there is a debate to be had, and that saying straight off that it is the best in the world is a statement that can be argued either way - it is not a done deal, and is probably about as debatable as saying that SDZ is the best zoo in the world. ​

 

[TZDugong]

And I would argue that this:

looks significantly more like a tree than this:​

It’s not about whether it “looks like” a tree or not, Lintworm and others are saying that Chester’s exhibit is taller and allows for more brachiation than Leipzig’s exhibit.

and is probably about as debatable as saying that SDZ is the best zoo in the world.

That’s completely irrelevant.

​

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Chester’s exhibit is taller and allows for more brachiation than Leipzig’s exhibit.

And also that there are multiple of them whereas Leipzig is restricted to what one can see in the photograph

 

[Pertinax]

And I would argue that this:

looks significantly more like a tree than this:
​

The thing is, its not so much about whether it 'looks' like a tree, but how the Orangutans can use it. The swaypoles and hanging plastic vines at Chester allow the Orangutans to use the whole area at their disposal, swinging, brachiating and travelling all around the enclosure. The more classic trees and ropes set-up at Leipzig does not give them the same amount of scope while there is still much space in the rest of the enclosure that is unusable in order to prevent the apes climbing anywhere near the walls and escaping.

That said, while I think Chester's indoor areas are excellent, the outdoors are rather more traditional with a lot less climbing paraphernalia, apart from the one 'cage' enclosure which I have not seen them using to any extent. My only critisism of Chester's is the viewing facilities, the windows are too small and limited for this popular species. While Chester's is very good, its not necessarily the best anywhere though. Each of the best ones seem to have very good, and not so good features.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

the outdoors are rather more traditional with a lot less climbing paraphernalia, apart from the one 'cage' enclosure which I have not seen them using to any extent.

I wouldn't exactly call that accurate

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I look quite a lot like a tree but I'm sure I wouldn't make for the superior orangutan habitat.

And that will be my only contribution to this thread

~Thylo

 

[Pertinax]

I wouldn't exactly call that accurate

I would...its a much larger area than indoors but without the close hung vines and sway poles which allow the easy movement they have indoors. Outside they have to climb up poles to gain any height. But its still far more than many places obviously. But despite all the climbing opportunity, outside I've never seen them off the ground. Indoors the Sumatrans in particular really use those vines and sway poles, but then they are far more active than Borneans whatever their environment.

 

[FunkyGibbon]

saying straight off that it is the best in the world is a statement that can be argued either way - it is not a done deal,

I actually never said it was the best in the world, although I do think it's the best I've visited, and I'm yet to be shown an example I haven't seen personally that convinces me. So I've sort of said it now.

All I wanted to do was make sure we got from this:

The Chester orangutan is not the best in the world - i can think of many that surpass it

To this:

there may not be 'many' that are substantially better than Chester

as I knew we inevitably would.

I am quite sure that there are some possibilities for far better orangutan enclosures waiting to be built, and I look forward to them.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Outside they have to climb up poles to gain any height. But its still far more than many places obviously. But despite all the climbing opportunity, outside I've never seen them off the ground. Indoors the Sumatrans in particular really use those vines and sway poles, but then they are far more active than Borneans whatever their environment.

I've seen the Chester animals climbing from time to time outside - especially the male Sumatran, Puluh.

 

[CGSwans]

I’ve never been to a zoo that feels less the sum of its parts than Beauval. There’s a lot there that is objectively very good, along with much that is more ordinary (though that can be said of almost anywhere). What Beauval is missing is character. It feels something like what you would get if you used ZooTycoon to generate a master plan and then stuck to it.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I’ve never been to a zoo that feels less the sum of its parts than Beauval. There’s a lot there that is objectively very good, along with much that is more ordinary (though that can be said of almost anywhere). What Beauval is missing is character. It feels something like what you would get if you used ZooTycoon to generate a master plan and then stuck to it.

Sounds similar to Houston, really good zoo but few to none of the exhibits really stand out. Same can't be said of the collection, though.

~Thylo

 

[pachyderm pro]

Didn't even realize this thread got split, apologies for being the catalyst of a temporary derail of a thread.

I haven't visited either collection, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. All I will say is that Leipzig's exhibit is much nicer aesthetically, but Realm of the Red Ape seems to offer many more opportunities to climb. Does the Chester exhibit have natural light in the indoor quarters? I personally wouldn't mind being an orangutan in either exhibit, but I personally have yet to see a zoo in Europe, or anywhere else in the world (barring Singapore, perhaps) truly perfect the exhibition of orangutans.

I will leave it at that...

 

[amur leopard]

I actually never said it was the best in the world, although I do think it's the best I've visited, and I'm yet to be shown an example I haven't seen personally that convinces me. So I've sort of said it now.

I was referring to @Antoine's comment earlier, when he said it was the best.

 

[Pertinax]

Does the Chester exhibit have natural light in the indoor quarters?

From memory yes. The ROTRA building is older than the Monsoon forest where the Sumatrans now normally live, but it(the MF) is being repaired after the roof fire so they were relocated back to their older enclosures. But the Monsoon Forest indoor enclosures are even better and definately fully daylight....