ZooParc de Beauval Beauval's Dolphin Project

[Raptorblack226]

I am not a biggest fan of cetaceans in captivity.
I can conceive how the new facilities might possibly be seen as limiting… even if they will be top of the line in Europe.
But you know what? I don’t care anymore.
All this time… for more than 20 years.. these interest groups have pedalled the idea of a hypothetical marine sanctuary as the only good option for rehoming captive cetaceans.
And with all the money they’ve received, not to mention social support… what has happened? Nothing. Lolita died, and the orcas at Antibes are still stuck in bureaucratic hell. As are the dolphins there.
I have all but lost faith in the idea of the marine sanctuary as these activists propose it. And I am glad to see that Beauval at least has the drive and resources to create what will likely be the only option for many captive cetaceans.

You're right ! 20 years of noise and guess what ? N-O-T-H-I-N-G happened. But the thing that makes me sick is that people still believe/trust their lies(I see many comments on Beauval saying they just care about money, and that sanctuary is better than captivity...)

We all saw what happened with Keiko that had been "fred" and the beluga sanctuary so successful that both belugas spent 90% of their time inside...

 

[LiSom]

Problem is general public still receive the wrong happy sanctuary idea... I have seen lot of posts on Facebook and Instagram celebrating the liberation of two belugas whales from an aquarium in China to the ocean in Iceland... Never mentioning those two animals are currently in a quarantine indoor pool because they keep facing difficulties, even the facility itself has been pretty transparent on this reality but sensationalism likes to sell something different.

 

[Raptorblack226]

Problem is general public still receive the wrong happy sanctuary idea... I have seen lot of posts on Facebook and Instagram celebrating the liberation of two belugas whales from an aquarium in China to the ocean in Iceland... Never mentioning those two animals are currently in a quarantine indoor pool because they keep facing difficulties, even the facility itself has been pretty transparent on this reality but sensationalism likes to sell something different.

That's what i was talking about. And now i see that Sea Shepherd posted on their blog that they want their "garde-fou" to be appliqué. Which means NO BREEDING EVER because according to them, there are enough dolphins in Europe and the world so no other dolphin would be born ever

At this point, i'm speechless ! They try as hard to control this project that is not even their just to achieve their propaganda agenda and say "We ended dolphin captivity !"

And don't forget the fact that they HAVE TO point Spain and China as the living hell...Now China is the scarecrow of these fanatics...

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I am not a biggest fan of cetaceans in captivity.
I can conceive how the new facilities might possibly be seen as limiting… even if they will be top of the line in Europe.
But you know what? I don’t care anymore.
All this time… for more than 20 years.. these interest groups have pedalled the idea of a hypothetical marine sanctuary as the only good option for rehoming captive cetaceans.
And with all the money they’ve received, not to mention social support… what has happened? Nothing. Lolita died, and the orcas at Antibes are still stuck in bureaucratic hell. As are the dolphins there.
I have all but lost faith in the idea of the marine sanctuary as these activists propose it. And I am glad to see that Beauval at least has the drive and resources to create what will likely be the only option for many captive cetaceans.

Quite a good few times even our polticians are as gullible as F***! Who in their right mind put in this insane - totally over board - legislation that is both unrealistic and unable to be executed in real time now, tomorrow and into the future. High time that dolphinaria develop new strategies and better more improved and bigger more naturalistic and dolphin exhibitsl

 

[Jambo]

Quite a good few times even our polticians are as gullible as F***

Unfortunately they care more about themselves and their public image; so if there's a good portion of the public that wants something, and them supporting it puts them in the public's favour, they'll do it far more often than not! Even if they know it is quite frankly, foolish.

The activists constantly seem to be sticking to the same story of wanting to re-wild all these animals. It would be far more achievable and worthwhile if they decided to push for better facilities instead; and focused their effort/donations there.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Unfortunately they care more about themselves and their public image; so if there's a good portion of the public that wants something, and them supporting it puts them in the public's favour, they'll do it far more often than not! Even if they know it is quite frankly, foolish.

The activists constantly seem to be sticking to the same story of wanting to re-wild all these animals. It would be far more achievable and worthwhile if they decided to push for better facilities instead; and focused their effort/donations there.

Blackfish is the epitomy of demonising cetaceans in captivity. IMO: AW Activists are beyond delusional to think that banning dolphins and other whale species or marine mammals is doing any favours for in situ conservation. I dare them all to put their money where their mouths are when it comes to funding in situ conservation and by putting their money where their mouths are I do also mean to put their own cash into a marine conservation organisation or 2, 3 or whatever more..... or even one more generally in marine and habitat conservation. Period!

 

[LiSom]

Oh yeaaaah. I find anti-captive cetaceans activism to be so frustrating... I mean I don't know how it goes for other animals as I have always been more interested in this discussion around cetaceans but yes, it's all about talking but no real action, NOTHING. They don't even put money into their own project let alone any form of conservation. Everyone talks about how great a sanctuary would be, how wonderful the life of these animals will be if they are put in a sea pen but not a single one of them is willing to put the actual effort into doing anything for that to become a reality. 10 years ago they were talking about building a sanctuary in the Mediterranean Sea, about how the dolphins from Barcelona Zoo would be the first ones to go there, a whole project for improving Barcelona dolphinarium got cancelled by government to follow this request and now what? No sanctuary and pod got separated to send the animals to different parks and they just stopped talking about it, like those dolphins never existed and their project was never there... We saw this with Tokitae, we saw this with Kiska, we are seeing it now with Wikie and Keijo. The Whale Sanctuary projects over 10 years promising something, now they even gave their back to Wikie and Keijo and started talking about 10 out of 30 belugas from Marineland Canada (another awful situation that needs a fast solution but getting block because of same issue). Mexico also with many dolphinariums closing down and no idea where their dolphins can go because government gave them like 1 year to transfer all into sanctuaries? But no funding or anything to actually build and keep those sanctuaries... The world is just going insane! Zoos and organizations could be working hand to hand to improve the current dolphinariums into modern facilities with better infrastructure, more natural areas, less "show" etc but instead people just wants to hate and boycott like that's gonna help any animal at all.

This just makes my blood boild so much.

 

[Raptorblack226]

Oh yeaaaah. I find anti-captive cetaceans activism to be so frustrating... I mean I don't know how it goes for other animals as I have always been more interested in this discussion around cetaceans but yes, it's all about talking but no real action, NOTHING. They don't even put money into their own project let alone any form of conservation. Everyone talks about how great a sanctuary would be, how wonderful the life of these animals will be if they are put in a sea pen but not a single one of them is willing to put the actual effort into doing anything for that to become a reality. 10 years ago they were talking about building a sanctuary in the Mediterranean Sea, about how the dolphins from Barcelona Zoo would be the first ones to go there, a whole project for improving Barcelona dolphinarium got cancelled by government to follow this request and now what? No sanctuary and pod got separated to send the animals to different parks and they just stopped talking about it, like those dolphins never existed and their project was never there... We saw this with Tokitae, we saw this with Kiska, we are seeing it now with Wikie and Keijo. The Whale Sanctuary projects over 10 years promising something, now they even gave their back to Wikie and Keijo and started talking about 10 out of 30 belugas from Marineland Canada (another awful situation that needs a fast solution but getting block because of same issue). Mexico also with many dolphinariums closing down and no idea where their dolphins can go because government gave them like 1 year to transfer all into sanctuaries? But no funding or anything to actually build and keep those sanctuaries... The world is just going insane! Zoos and organizations could be working hand to hand to improve the current dolphinariums into modern facilities with better infrastructure, more natural areas, less "show" etc but instead people just wants to hate and boycott like that's gonna help any animal at all.

This just makes my blood boild so much.

You just put words on my thoughts! I'm literally sick of these fanatics, they are worse than religion at this point(No offense). They act like pseudo "gardians of the cetacean temple", the Holy Sanctuary has spoken according to them

That's the reason why i can't stand the Word "sanctuary" anymore. It's been years they said this is gonna "save" all cetaceans from evil captivity but guess what ? Nothing happened/is happening and yet they still talk about it as if it was ready(we all know the truth)

The worst part is that they succeeded in their well done propaganda because 3/4 casual people will believe in any of their lies. In french we say "Tout prendre pour argent comptant"(Taking all for granted) and that's exactly the current thing with activists and "normal" people.

We really need to "clean" the mind of the general public about cetacean captivity because sorry but reality and captivity is not all paradise or all hell. But nuances seem to be facultative for activism...

 

[aquaticpencil]

Zoos and aquariums ARE the sanctuary.

The problem is that most people have a fundamental lack of understanding of what it takes to care for animals, what it means to provide positive welfare, and what is logistically required in order to do so. The most experience the average person has with caring for animals is their own dog or cat. Even living or working on a farm provides way better insight on the realities of animal husbandry, and that doing what's best for the animal's welfare sometimes isn't the easiest, prettiest, or softest.

From these high level renderings, this looks like a nice project at Beauval, and I'm happy to see a new cetacean projects that is designed the same way we design all other marine mammal zoological projects: with habitat complexity, naturalistic rockwork, and bigger volumes. Enough with the sterile show pools! I hope this comes to fruition and begins of a new era for cetacean habitat design "trends."

 

[Wanderer]

From these high level renderings, this looks like a nice project at Beauval, and I'm happy to see a new cetacean projects that is designed the same way we design all other marine mammal zoological projects: with habitat complexity, naturalistic rockwork, and bigger volumes. Enough with the sterile show pools! I hope this comes to fruition and begins of a new era for cetacean habitat design "trends."

You know, building something like this costs a lot of money. An indecent amount, some might say. Is this really the "new era" of cetacean captivity when the number of facilities worldwide that realistically will have both the resources and the will to build something like this (so excluding China for now) can probably be counted on one hand?

Personally I'm on the side of the smaller and more sterile-looking show pools. I believe they can do a good job at keeping cetaceans and are a more down-to-earth setting to create a connection between people and those animals.

 

[aquaticpencil]

You know, building something like this costs a lot of money. An indecent amount, some might say. Is this really the "new era" of cetacean captivity when the number of facilities worldwide that realistically will have both the resources and the will to build something like this (so excluding China for now) can probably be counted on one hand?

Personally I'm on the side of the smaller and more sterile-looking show pools. I believe they can do a good job at keeping cetaceans and are a more down-to-earth setting to create a connection between people and those animals.

Pretty much all zoological projects cost an indecent amount of money. Aquatic projects are obviously on the more expensive end due to all the additional systems and infrastructure required, but even a run-of-the-mill terrestrial project will run into the tens of millions of dollars these days.

If we are going to commit to caring for some of the most intellectually advanced animals on the planet, we must also commit to providing them with the best environments we are able to build (and I don't believe that sea pens are the solution). Just as the old standards of keeping primates in concrete cages has long been considered inhumane, the standards for marine mammals must advance too. A core tenet of improving animal welfare through habitat design, across all species, is providing them with choice, control, and habitat complexity. The sterile show pools just don't do that.

I'd rather see far fewer facilities that do it really well than a bunch of cheap tanks all over the world.

 

[Wanderer]

I think there are still lots of ways to provide good quality enrichment in a traditional small pool setting. It is not ideal but with cetaceans nothing ever is, with how smart and active they are. Plus it's easier to keep such an habitat under control (see for instance the failure of Marineland Antibes' huge orca stadium... lots of space but very poor quality overall).

I don't think bigger pool volumes make much of a difference. When they have nothing to do the dolphins just swim in circles, it doesn't change much that they are doing it in a bigger pool. It is true however that in a show setting the back pools tend to be extremely small, and this has to be a discomfort for the dolphins (having to turn around every few meters). Having several big enough pools for the dolphins to properly swim around instead of just one should be a priority. But other than that the pools don't need to be huge.

I think our fundamental disagreement is that I am willing to accept that cetacean captivity does inevitably carry its load of suffering for the animals, whereas you want to believe it can be avoided if we keep pushing the limits of what is possible.

 

[Raptorblack226]

Zen attitude...Inner peace....

The situation is getting cosmic IMO, now Loïc Dombreval, the one that made the law back in 2021 to "end cetacean captivity in France" now starts talking about how Beauval is "betraying his very law" and that this is just a "disguised dolphinarium".... And JUST because of the devil words: Breeding and transferts

Just saying it now because this is getting on my nerves and i try to stay calm, will this affair ever end peacefully with the project done and activists shut up for good ?

Projet de Delphinarium à Beauval : 15 ONG de défense animale et le rapporteur de la loi 2021, Loïc Dombreval, dénoncent la pérennisation de la captivité à des fins commerciales sous le masque d’un « Centre d’Études et de Sauvegarde pour dauphins » ⋆ Savoir Animal

To anyone not speaking french, i'm just gonna make this article short: The one that made this very law now is angry because Beauval is exploiting the exception he made back then, that very exception supposedly wasn't meant to open new facilities.

Sorry buddy but that was YOU that made this very law, it was YOU who accepted this exception !