Berlin Zoo Berlin zoo / Tierpark

Hevden

Hevden

Well-Known Member
It was really nice to see the two baby(2months) lions cubs in Berlin zoo and they also have two that are 12 months old. There are plenty of new faces everywhere for the zoo and also we got a very nice view of a rhino inside yesterday and by the looks of it it was at most 24 hours old?

In Teirpark there is a very cute 4month old sunbear...! so cute. And also alot of new faces... including a 2 week old giraffe and a week old giraffe also... and it looks like there was to be a third to join them looking at the third female inside...!! last years two young look like they are doing well. They were out in the paddock with the other adults...

Still lots to see in both and only one day left at each!! x
 
The baby lions in the zoo are nothing to be happy about. first, they are hybrids (like almost all zoo lions in europe). But worse, they are the product of heavy inbreeding. The partens are full siblings, and the father of the parents is also the grandfather. And I think if you go back one more generation you`ll find even MORE inbreeding. It is totally irresponsible to continue breeding with them.

The giraffe calves are also a) result of inbreeding and b) subspecies hybrid. The director Blasciewitz doesn`t care about neither. As a result, the male giraffe offspring are almost impossible to place in respectable zoos and "vanish" - they are most likely sold to an animal dealer who trades them to circusses. The mortality of giraffes in circusses is so high that they need a constant supply.
 
@Tarsius,


There is a big difference between inbreeding because you have to or between inbreeding because you do not care. In the case of lions there are unrelated animals available. And the same for giraffes. And the many zoos breed hybrids does not make it right. With the current knowledge we have we should pay attention to keeping the subspecific features if we can. And the responsible people in zoos are almost like ordinary people. Some of them are good in their job some of them are not. Some try to the best they can some just don't care. So if a well known zoo does things that are not appropriate in current times anymore, I think we should indicate that.
 
I would phase out the hybrids (put them in a non-breeding situation). And yes in some cases inbreeding is needed, but not with lions or giraffes. And yes it happens in nature, but not to the levels mentioned in this topic.
 
Yassa said:
The baby lions in the zoo are nothing to be happy about. first, they are hybrids (like almost all zoo lions in europe). But worse, they are the product of heavy inbreeding. The partens are full siblings, and the father of the parents is also the grandfather. And I think if you go back one more generation you`ll find even MORE inbreeding. It is totally irresponsible to continue breeding with them.

The giraffe calves are also a) result of inbreeding and b) subspecies hybrid. The director Blasciewitz doesn`t care about neither. As a result, the male giraffe offspring are almost impossible to place in respectable zoos and "vanish" - they are most likely sold to an animal dealer who trades them to circusses. The mortality of giraffes in circusses is so high that they need a constant supply.
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Whereas I agree Berlin's zoos work with animal dealer, the second part of that line is total conjecture. Unless you have any firm evidence, you are talking up the animal rightists + Greens Berlin crap. :(
 
I didnt actually realise that this was the case... I do apologise... the animals themselves are not to blame though!! They are very cute but I do agree with the fact that sometimes inbredding is necessary and somewhere along the lines of any species they are related... so it is going to happen at some point...?
 
What gets conveniently forgotten here also is that if it were not for Dr. Blaszkiewitz Berlin's politicians would have long ago made the Tierpark defunct (along similar lines as the CDU deconstructed the former Eastern Buendeslaendern assets by its Treuhandanstalt).

What I really do take exception too exception here is the unilateral character murder (wie die Deutschen sagen Karaktermord ... klingt doch so besser wie es auch wirklich IST wenn dass ihrselber waere) by some. You do not know the man other than by the media ..., and for what it is worth ... mind if we were talking you down here how would you feel then (MIND: I am not being aggressive here, I just find it exceptionally curious that one feels able to criticise a man one has never met nor know more intimately than just a fleeting glance of what the media give one away ...)

Whereas I myself do not agree fully with the hybrid breeding of giraffe continuing in Berlin, there is alot going for the Tierpark site - even over and above - the old Berlin Zoo. The more - IMO unjustly so - visited Berlin Zoo gets all the visitors' attention ... being so close to the K'damm and all. As for Tierpark many visitors to Berlin do not even bother to travel to Friedrichsfelde ... (I cannot think why though ...).

Note: if you are going to quote re its director ..., at least get the name spelling right! :D
 
dcamp023 said:
Which type of lions are being inbred African or Asian?
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Well, The signs in on the enclosure are not too good and just say lion. After checking with my photographs I would say they are African. However, they are counted as Barbary Lions on Zooteirliste. Which are African so I would go for African. However, It does only show Berlin as
having Barbary lions so I am not 100% sure.

Sorry I cannot give you a definite answer on this but I hope that helps?
 
Berlin Zoo keeps African hybrid lions and one female barbary lion - all highly inbred.

Berlin Tierpark keeps Asian lions, also highly inbred.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
, there is alot going for the Tierpark site - even over and above - the old Berlin Zoo. The more - IMO unjustly so - visited Berlin Zoo gets all the visitors' attention ... being so close to the K'damm and all. As for Tierpark many visitors to Berlin do not even bother to travel to Friedrichsfelde ... (I cannot think why though ...).
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I agree that Berlin Zoo has a much higher profile than the Tierpark as i have been to the old zoo several times and only got to see the Tierpark last month for the first time. But I loved it and can't wait to make a return visit. Overall the animals were well housed and in nice groups and i got to see numerous exotic species for the first time. Of course I could criticise some of the enclosures (but the same could be said for just about any Zoo) and anyway I am sure they intend to improve any lesser exhibits as they certainly have the space.
The highlights for me were the huge Vulture enclosure and other Raptor exhibits, Secretary birds, Takins, Hyenas, Manatees and i loved the family group of spectacled bears in a really large deep enclosure. (best that i've ever seen for this species). This Zoo seems to combine the best of both worlds for me as I sometimes miss the wonder of the past while appreciating the improvement in animal welfare of the present.
For anyone who has not yet visited you would need to allow 2 to3 days to properly see most of this very big Zoo and it only costs 18 euros for two to visit when you buy the Berlin Welcome Card. (a must)
Berlin is lucky to have 2 such very good Zoos, great food and prices and great city transport and is my favorite city to visit.
 
dublinlion said:
I agree that Berlin Zoo has a much higher profile than the Tierpark as i have been to the old zoo several times and only got to see the Tierpark last month for the first time. But I loved it and can't wait to make a return visit. Overall the animals were well housed and in nice groups and i got to see numerous exotic species for the first time. Of course I could criticize some of the enclosures (but the same could be said for just about any Zoo) and anyway I am sure they intend to improve any lesser exhibits as they certainly have the space.
The highlights for me were the huge Vulture enclosure and other Raptor exhibits, Secretary birds, Takins, Hyenas, Manatees and i loved the family group of spectacled bears in a really large deep enclosure. (best that I've ever seen for this species). This Zoo seems to combine the best of both worlds for me as I sometimes miss the wonder of the past while appreciating the improvement in animal welfare of the present.
For anyone who has not yet visited you would need to allow 2 to3 days to properly see most of this very big Zoo and it only costs 18 euros for two to visit when you buy the Berlin Welcome Card. (a must)
Berlin is lucky to have 2 such very good Zoos, great food and prices and great city transport and is my favorite city to visit.
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I must admit that i find Berlin tierpark much better than the (even more) outdated Berlin zoo. As already pointed out some things could be better at tierpark especially considering the amount of space, for example the outdoor enclosures off the Alfred Brehm House which could be made much bigger. However zoo enthusiasts who criticize the house its self should realize that the indoor accommodation is probably as big if not bigger than most of the well known zoos the only difference is you can actually see it!
Whilst I accept that these establishments are not to everyones tastes i love them both. Although they may not have multi million pound exhibits like other major European zoos i believe that from an educational point of view they display the one thing that all others have seemingly overlooked or felt no longer applicable... diversity!
 
Hevden said:
I must admit that i find Berlin tierpark much better than the (even more) outdated Berlin zoo. As already pointed out some things could be better at tierpark especially considering the amount of space, for example the outdoor enclosures off the Alfred Brehm House which could be made much bigger. However zoo enthusiasts who criticize the house its self should realize that the indoor accommodation is probably as big if not bigger than most of the well known zoos the only difference is you can actually see it!
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Whilst I really like both the Zoo and the Tierpark I think the zoo has the edge. While a zoo may have outdated exhibits to me it matters more what the zoo is doing about it now.
Berlin Zoo has in generally been building far more attractive and better functioning exhibits over the last 15 years than the Tierpark has, eg. the Penguin House, Hippo House, renovated seal exhibits, renovated great ape exhibits and renovated Nocturnal House.
The Tierpark on the other hand have built the mountain area (very easy on the eye but too easy on the animals' feet), the very bland exhibits for spotted hyenas and dholes, the excellent ruffed lemur forest and the awful bombshell they call a Primate House. Absolutely the worst primate house I have ever seen for the reason that it was built is recently as 2001.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Tierpark. But it seems that the hoofstock there have won the lottery while the elephants, manatees, carnivores and primates seem to have lost badly.
 
Hevden said:
Whilst I accept that these establishments are not to everyones tastes i love them both. Although they may not have multi million pound exhibits like other major European zoos i believe that from an educational point of view they display the one thing that all others have seemingly overlooked or felt no longer applicable... diversity!
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Absolutely agree with the above. In the last five years I have visited 30+ zoos all over europe and the UK and although they all have their merits the Berlin zoos are my favourites and the Tierpark visit was like a step back in time, filled with wonder and nostalgia with the added benefit of good solid and ample enclosures. Every animal I saw looked healthy and well cared for, and even the much criticised Brehm house was full of lovely healthy and breeding specimens. (There was extensive renovating work going on here when I visited.)
It is my belief that education and encourageing a love and respect for animals is the primary role for Zoos. It was my childhood visits to Dublin Zoo which fostered my obsession with animals and conservation and this has led to influence of family and friends, and most of these now support conservation and animal welfare.
 
Toddy said:
.
Berlin Zoo has in generally been building far more attractive and better functioning exhibits over the last 15 years than the Tierpark has, eg. the Penguin House, Hippo House, renovated seal exhibits, renovated great ape exhibits and renovated Nocturnal House.
.
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The seal/sealion exhibit is very good indeed, with great underwater viewing and big pools with tidal movement. The nocturnal section is also great with very interesting and active exhibits and the hippo house is impressive. These three exhibits were my favorites here along with the condors and reptile/aquarium house and esp. the jellyfish. also loved the raptors section although the housing is a bit grim.
There was lots of building work going on in several areas, when I was there in late oct.
 
dublinlion said:
Absolutely agree with the above. In the last five years I have visited 30+ zoos all over europe and the UK and although they all have their merits the Berlin zoos are my favourites and the Tierpark visit was like a step back in time, filled with wonder and nostalgia with the added benefit of good solid and ample enclosures. Every animal I saw looked healthy and well cared for, and even the much criticised Brehm house was full of lovely healthy and breeding specimens. (There was extensive renovating work going on here when I visited.)
It is my belief that education and encourageing a love and respect for animals is the primary role for Zoos. It was my childhood visits to Dublin Zoo which fostered my obsession with animals and conservation and this has led to influence of family and friends, and most of these now support conservation and animal welfare.
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Very well put, dublinlion. I was lucky enough to have visited London in the 1960s and 1970s when a full day would still leave exhibits unvisited. I'm not naive to think that it was perfect at that time - it certainly wasn't- but a lot of posters here don't seem to see the value of a diverse collection. It goes without saying that decent accommodation should be given for everything.

Where I would (hesitantly) criticise Berlin is that it doesn't seem to be maximising the benefits of the Tierpark's size. The cats in the Brehm house could very easily be given good homes in some of the underused wooodland, for example.

And some of the ungulates in the West really should be moved East to make space in the former - again, many of the cats in the West's Carnivore House are living in conditions that are 50 years out of date - in a house built in 1975!!
 
Wich species(groups) are not visable during the renovation of the birdhouse? Do they keep al the birds behind the scenes?
 
Hupie said:
Wich species(groups) are not visable during the renovation of the birdhouse? Do they keep al the birds behind the scenes?
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The attachment on this post lists all the species on show in September 2011: https://www.zoochat.com/community/posts/525199

Although the main bird house is closed, the Pheasantry is still open (and that alone beats many zoos' bird houses!).
 
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