I'll even bore myself eventually going on about this, as I've talked about it so often. But its amazing how so many zoos still persist with these exhibits. The animals hardly use them unless they are shut outside, and even then they will sit with their backs against walls, in cave shelters and under climbing frames as much as possible. Meanwhile similar new exhibits are coming along all the time!
big animals in city zoos...
- Thread starter patrick
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I'll even bore myself eventually going on about this, as I've talked about it so often. But its amazing how so many zoos still persist with these exhibits. The animals hardly use them unless they are shut outside, and even then they will sit with their backs against walls, in cave shelters and under climbing frames as much as possible. Meanwhile similar new exhibits are coming along all the time!
Who would be designing exhibits like these ?
Architects- but I don't think you can blame them, they work largely to the brief the zoo has asked them to. In designs, the zoos appear to copy each other. If you look at the Ape House designs of the 1950's-70's era a lot were similar- each zoo building a new ape house would get their design from several others- sometimes amalgamating features from different zoos into their own design. Nowadays the vogue is for these big open areas often referred to as 'Bais' from the discovery of Gorillas using Bais in the wild.
The concept is okay except for the important point that so far they haven't thought through the correct ratio of cover/open areas. I'm sure somebody will do it right soon...
They did originally, but for very different reasons- the roofed enclosures were designed to give them climbing space- inadvertently they also provided cover but I don't think anyone realised how much the Gorillas liked/needed it...
But they fell into the same trap as everyone else at Port Lympne- the large open 'fields' they built onto the original bachelor quarters are hardly used except during the public feeding sessions.
MARK
Well-Known Member
Maybe they could cover the outside area over with some type of sail like roofing or netting they might like the cover
Maybe they could cover the outside area over with some type of sail like roofing or netting they might like the cover
Do you know that I thought of exactly the same idea a while back! this was in reference to Bristol zoo's open island which is rather smaller and you could cover say, half of it with a huge awning... Wonder if it would work?
Port Lympne enclosures- not sure if you saw the open 'fields' they built on later?- they are pretty ENORMOUS- like football fields full of long dead grass usually. There is very expensive climbing equipment/frames sitting in them too.
taun
Well-Known Member
I feel something like this may work for Gorillas but I might add that if it was used the zoo would have to be carefully of not just covering the floor space of the outdoor enlcosure.
I feel they would need to design it so the enclosure or parts of the enclosure only got full sun at a certain time of day, also the covers ("Sails") would be best if they were camoflage netting allowing some light to filter thou, just like in the jnugle.
The Los Angeles Zoo's Campo Gorilla Reserve has been open to the public less than a year, and it cost something like $8 million. There are a number of photos of the exhibit here in the gallery, and when I was there in August I was shocked at how open it is. There are zero climbing frames of any kind, zero trees to climb, barely any shade and barely any overhead protection for the apes. As Pertinax correctly pointed out often gorillas in those type of habitats huddle around a wall or sit against the glass as they are locked out of their indoor rooms. Pittsburgh, Toledo and other zoos have small rooms with vines and ropes, but then half acre fields that I could set up a soccer team on. Ridiculous designing!
I think a smaller part of the enclosure should remain fully open to the elements- sun, rain wind(Gorillas seem to hate wind..) etc. The camouflage netting idea is a good one and probably both the most practical and as you said, gives a natural effect. Some zoos e.g. Jersey & Belfast nowadays use this stuff to cover most of the glass frontage of indoor exhibits to reduce stress for the gorillas. It would only be one stage further to start using it as an outdoor 'awning.' over parts of open enclosures.
The problem would obviously be how to keep it and the supporting ropes out of reach of the gorillas...
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It truly is a remarkable disparity between the huge cost of these exhibits, and the true understanding of the animals' needs. The fact that these open areas later prove to be so little used (if the gorillas have any choice) is never mentioned by the zoo of course.
I've just had another look at your photos of the Los Angeles Exhibit. It is very open at present, with only the overhangs from the concrete walls providing any shade/cover.(incidentally this habit of sitting against hard walls sometimes rubs the hair off producing bald patches on the animals' back) It will probably LOOK better as the vegetation grows up but still remain unattractive to the Gorillas because of the lack of overhead cover.
Its a bit like designing a very lavish desert environment for sealions....
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taun
Well-Known Member
Thats why I suggested camouflage netting, as certain areas would get sun all day, where as other parts would get it at certain times of the day.
If memory serves me correct Apenheul in Netherlands have a large breeding group of gorillas in a large moated 'naturalistic' exhibit. The exhibit seems to work on the basis of alot of established trees providing both shade and (when not hotwired) climbing space. Utimately this has to be a better idea than the shaded-providing sails (which tend to whip around in the wind). My argument falls back to the same one I tend to rant on about - the exhibit should be designed with the species in mind. If gorillas need alot of shade in preference to grass, then why give them a grassy paddock?
Nobody's arguing- your preaching to the converted...
Apenheul's(and some others) outdoor enclosure works well because of the amount of shade trees/wooded area. Another one is Melbourne, also Vallee de Singes in France. But these tend to be the exceptions.
Of course its not so easy in urban situations to 'magic' up a suitable grove of mature trees around which to build an exhibit. But I feel more could be done in terms of planting fast growing shade trees in many of these enclosures.
Maybe the sail idea could be adopted as an interim measure while young trees are growing.
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
Aren't gorillas well known for destroying any non-mature trees in their enclosure..?
mstickmanp
Well-Known Member
Yup, all the young trees in LA's Campo Gorilla Reserve were destroyed a week after the gorillas went on exhibit, even though they were all protected by hot-wire.
Hot wires are not always an effective deterrent for apes.
I remember reading about an orang-utan which was holding a hot wire and the muscle in its arm was jumping from the electric current. Rather than drop the wire, the ape watched his arm muscle with calm curiosity for a while before deciding to let go.....
I remember reading about an orang-utan which was holding a hot wire and the muscle in its arm was jumping from the electric current. Rather than drop the wire, the ape watched his arm muscle with calm curiosity for a while before deciding to let go.....
NZ Jeremy
Well-Known Member
Yeah, well my comment came from the fact I'd heard Disney (in Florida) had a HUGE weekly expenditure budget for plants in their ape enclosures... Something along the lines of 10's of thousands per week...
All ape species have different approaches to hotwires, and there are obviously differences with individuals too. Orang-utans are the worst because they have a lot of patience to sit there are work out how to get around a problem. Hotwires probably work best with gorillas; mind you I have a couple of photos from Jersey where a youngster was doing the limbo under some wires to get to some protected plants.
mstickmanp
Well-Known Member
I think it all depends in the individuals because at the Los Angeles Zoo the orangs are terrified of hot-wire, especially the males. I've seen the gorilla youngster at the LA zoo going under the hotwire just to get to the plants, not exactly limbo style but she got under it. I've never seen the LA zoo chimps by the hot wires, so I don't know how they react.