Berlin Zoo BIG plans for Zoo Berlin

[kiang]

Further renderings have been released;

Zoo Berlin - Herzlich willkommen im Zoo Berlin. - Das ist die Zukunft vom Zoo Berlin ? der Ziel- und Entwicklungsplan

 

[Bib Fortuna]

No really new"Nes", only old stuff, but the concept graphics are very nice.

So they really want to rebuild the famous Elephant Pagode, what was destroyed in the second world war?

 

[Dassie rat]

I had a look at the website and I am underwhelmed by the choice of animals (Zoo Berlin - Herzlich willkommen im Zoo Berlin. - Übersicht der Tiere | Zoo Berlin gorilla, elephant, polar bear, meerkat, hippopotamus, giraffe, penguins, California sealion, lion, rhino, okapi, orang-utan, red giant kangaroo, capybara and zebras.

Germany has many zoos and Berlin has one of the biggest collections in any zoo in the world. Why choose species that can be found in many of its competitors, when it could highlight species that are found in few other zoos? According to Zootierliste, Berlin Zoo is the only German zoo to keep James' flamingo, Japanese serow, Arctic tern, potto, Angolan walking catfish, tuatara and woodchuck, to name a few.

When I first visited Berlin Zoo, it had an amazing collection, including many species I hadn't seen before. Why does such a world-famous zoo need to promote meerkats?

 

[Batto]

My response to some of the other comments above about not wanting pandas there is that they are the most popular animals in China and a symbol of conservation, something the Berlin Zoo strides in by having more species than any other zoo on the planet, and participating in studbooks, reintroduction projects and cooperation in supplying other zoos all across the world with animals rarely seen in captivity. Besides, folks probably wouldn't even recognize most other animals from the People's Republic. How many mothers with their children would expect to know what a snub-nosed monkey is?

You forget quite an important aspect: the bear is the heraldic animal of Berlin. Bears in all forms are therefore omnipresent in Berlin. So (a) Giant Panda(s) makes more sense for bear-crazy Berlin (even though from my personal pov, I'd prefer Golden Snub-nosed monkeys anytime).

 

[Batto]

I had a look at the website and I am underwhelmed by the choice of animals (Zoo Berlin - Herzlich willkommen im Zoo Berlin. - Übersicht der Tiere | Zoo Berlin gorilla, elephant, polar bear, meerkat, hippopotamus, giraffe, penguins, California sealion, lion, rhino, okapi, orang-utan, red giant kangaroo, capybara and zebras.

Germany has many zoos and Berlin has one of the biggest collections in any zoo in the world. Why choose species that can be found in many of its competitors, when it could highlight species that are found in few other zoos? According to Zootierliste, Berlin Zoo is the only German zoo to keep James' flamingo, Japanese serow, Arctic tern, potto, Angolan walking catfish, tuatara and woodchuck, to name a few.

When I first visited Berlin Zoo, it had an amazing collection, including many species I hadn't seen before. Why does such a world-famous zoo need to promote meerkats?

Because the majority of zoo visitors doesn't go to the zoo with the initial purpose to see Angolan walking catfish, James' flamingos and woodchucks; first of all, they want to see elephants, polar bears and meerkats.
The number of zoo nerds taking delight in rarely displayed species is minuscule compared to the number of visitors who just want to spend a nice time at the zoo with their kids, not knowing to differ between a tiger and a jaguar.

 

[Dassie rat]

Because the majority of zoo visitors doesn't go to the zoo with the initial purpose to see Angolan walking catfish, James' flamingos and woodchucks; first of all, they want to see elephants, polar bears and meerkats.
The number of zoo nerds taking delight in rarely displayed species is minuscule compared to the number of visitors who just want to spend a nice time at the zoo with their kids, not knowing to differ between a tiger and a jaguar.

Hello, Batto

This issue has been discussed on Zoochat several times. What I was trying to point out is why should people go to Berlin Zoo to see species that they can see in many other zoos. Why not promote animals that are kept in few zoos? On Sunday, I saw an interesting film in London Zoo's Giraffe house. Berlin Zoo could use archive material to encourage people to become interested in less popular species.

How many people know that some catfish can walk, while others can 'talk'?
Flamingos are popular birds with unusual adaptations, so why not promote a species only kept in 2 European collections?
Why not promote woodchucks using 'Groundhog Day' and using this to link with myths about other animals? Colchester Zoo had a display about dragons and linked this to the Komodo dragon.
Tuataras are the remnants of a group of reptiles around in the Age of Dinosaurs. They could be a promoter's dream to encourage people to visit Berlin Zoo.
Hair from a 'yeti' scalp came from a serow - a fairly obvious link with serows and a way to promote the collection of 'goat antelopes' in the Tierpark.

Berlin Zoo has such a large, diverse collection that I would have hoped it could show a lot of imagination to encourage people to see unusual, interesting species for the first time. The visitors don't need to visit Berlin Zoo to see the species its website is promoting.

 

[zoomaniac]

Hello, Batto

This issue has been discussed on Zoochat several times. What I was trying to point out is why should people go to Berlin Zoo to see species that they can see in many other zoos. Why not promote animals that are kept in few zoos? On Sunday, I saw an interesting film in London Zoo's Giraffe house. Berlin Zoo could use archive material to encourage people to become interested in less popular species.

How many people know that some catfish can walk, while others can 'talk'?
Flamingos are popular birds with unusual adaptations, so why not promote a species only kept in 2 European collections?
Why not promote woodchucks using 'Groundhog Day' and using this to link with myths about other animals? Colchester Zoo had a display about dragons and linked this to the Komodo dragon.
Tuataras are the remnants of a group of reptiles around in the Age of Dinosaurs. They could be a promoter's dream to encourage people to visit Berlin Zoo.
Hair from a 'yeti' scalp came from a serow - a fairly obvious link with serows and a way to promote the collection of 'goat antelopes' in the Tierpark.

Berlin Zoo has such a large, diverse collection that I would have hoped it could show a lot of imagination to encourage people to see unusual, interesting species for the first time. The visitors don't need to visit Berlin Zoo to see the species its website is promoting.

I allow myself to interfere

First, as Batto already said, ordinary zoo visitors EXPECT/want to see ABC- and/or well known animals in the first line. And (meanwhile) the charismatic meercats are among them.
While flamingos (of any kind) are indeed ABC-Animals, they're not as popular as meercats (specially for kids). Groundhog day isn't as popular in Germany as in the US. So it makes no sense doing "commercials" with a marmot. Tuataras might be a good idea, but they are small, "akinetic" and spend most of their time - for visitors unvisible - in their burrows. The serau finally will stay just "a kind of goat" for ordinary zoo visitors, no matter how big the sign with the "Yeti-relationship" will be (Keep in mind how few zoo visitors really read signs).

Second: I don't think that Zoo Berlin must elevate its uniqueness. Zoo Fans know it, OZV don't care as long as they can see their ABCs and the next REAL competitors are fare away (with the exception of Leipzig).

 

[temp]

Angolan walking catfish, tuatara

Except for fish crazy people like myself, I can't imagine many being all that interested in Angolan walking catfish (it's just another Clarias ), but tuatara might be able to draw in some more "normal" people. Both are however in the aquarium and it has its own page. Unsurprisingly no mention of the catfish, but the tuatara is there: Aquarium Berlin - Tiere

 

[Dassie rat]

I allow myself to interfere
First, as Batto already said, ordinary zoo visitors EXPECT/want to see ABC- and/or well known animals in the first line. And (meanwhile) the charismatic meercats are among them.
While flamingos (of any kind) are indeed ABC-Animals, they're not as popular as meercats (specially for kids). Groundhog day isn't as popular in Germany as in the US. So it makes no sense doing "commercials" with a marmot. Tuataras might be a good idea, but they are small, "akinetic" and spend most of their time - for visitors unvisible - in their burrows. The serau finally will stay just "a kind of goat" for ordinary zoo visitors, no matter how big the sign with the "Yeti-relationship" will be (Keep in mind how few zoo visitors really read signs).
Second: I don't think that Zoo Berlin must elevate its uniqueness. Zoo Fans know it, OZV don't care as long as they can see their ABCs and the next REAL competitors are fare away (with the exception of Leipzig).

Hello Zoomaniac

Would you travel a long way and spend a lot of money to buy things that are available in your local town?
Germany has lots of good zoos and I find it strange to advertise species kept by its competitors, rather than species that require a visit to Berlin. Several Zoochatters have visited zoos around the world. What would be the point if every zoo looked the same and had the same species?
It is sad that some Zoochatters believe that most visitors are only interested in about 50 types of animals, with other species only being of interest to Zoonerds. There seems to be the idea that ABC animals subsidise other species. I was at London Zoo's 'Butterfly Paradise' on Sunday and there were several children interested in the different stages of development in butterflies and moths. Do many people visit zoos to see butterflies and moths? Probably not. Can zoos and their staff encourage visitors to take an interest in butterflies and moths? Yes, they can. This is also the case with other species.

I have made a few visits to both zoos in Berlin, but I can see all the promoted animals far closer to home and this will also be the case for many zoo enthusiasts living in Germany.

 

[Bib Fortuna]

I had a look at the website and I am underwhelmed by the choice of animals (Zoo Berlin - Herzlich willkommen im Zoo Berlin. - Übersicht der Tiere | Zoo Berlin gorilla, elephant, polar bear, meerkat, hippopotamus, giraffe, penguins, California sealion, lion, rhino, okapi, orang-utan, red giant kangaroo, capybara and zebras.

Germany has many zoos and Berlin has one of the biggest collections in any zoo in the world. Why choose species that can be found in many of its competitors, when it could highlight species that are found in few other zoos? According to Zootierliste, Berlin Zoo is the only German zoo to keep James' flamingo, Japanese serow, Arctic tern, potto, Angolan walking catfish, tuatara and woodchuck, to name a few.

When I first visited Berlin Zoo, it had an amazing collection, including many species I hadn't seen before. Why does such a world-famous zoo need to promote meerkats?

To answer your last question: For the same reason the zoo berlin and other"world-famous"zoos promote elephants, tigers, polar bears, seals, penguins, giraffes...the people want to see them-and the people bring in the money, not the Kiwi,Aye-Aye or he Gerenuk...money what is needed to show also other species. See what is happening to a zoo who is not keeping these species...best example is the RSCC....
By the way-I think, even the smallest zoo has room enough to keep merkats and I never heard before that any zoos has stopped keeping another speices to get the space for a merkat exhibit... The first thing I would do If would take over a zoo without merkats would be buidling a merkat exhibit...

 

[kiang]

No really new"Nes", only old stuff, but the concept graphics are very nice.

So they really want to rebuild the famous Elephant Pagode, what was destroyed in the second world war?

Showing the Asian rhino, alongside a S American tapir

 

[Bib Fortuna]

Why not ? Berlin zoo is not seperated in Geo-Zones, and they currently keep both species in the same house. And the upcoming"new"Elephant Pagode will be the new house for Rhinos and Tapirs.

Question is, why they want to rebuild the old elephant pagode-I guess, the zoo has to much money. A Ptty, because this money could be used for the Sumatran Rhinos in the wild, I think, thats more important than to rebuild an old animal house.

If the people want to see pachyderms in a"Jungle palace", I advice to visit Hannover"Zoo".

 

[kiang]

Why not ? Berlin zoo is not seperated in Geo-Zones, and they currently keep both species in the same house. And the upcoming"new"Elephant Pagode will be the new house for Rhinos and Tapirs.

Question is, why they want to rebuild the old elephant pagode-I guess, the zoo has to much money. A Ptty, because this money could be used for the Sumatran Rhinos in the wild, I think, thats more important than to rebuild an old animal house.

If the people want to see pachyderms in a"Jungle palace", I advice to visit Hannover"Zoo".

S American tapir in a S.E Asian pagoda, mixed messages!

 

[zoomaniac]

Hello Zoomaniac

Would you travel a long way and spend a lot of money to buy things that are available in your local town?
Germany has lots of good zoos and I find it strange to advertise species kept by its competitors, rather than species that require a visit to Berlin. Several Zoochatters have visited zoos around the world. What would be the point if every zoo looked the same and had the same species?
It is sad that some Zoochatters believe that most visitors are only interested in about 50 types of animals, with other species only being of interest to Zoonerds. There seems to be the idea that ABC animals subsidise other species. I was at London Zoo's 'Butterfly Paradise' on Sunday and there were several children interested in the different stages of development in butterflies and moths. Do many people visit zoos to see butterflies and moths? Probably not. Can zoos and their staff encourage visitors to take an interest in butterflies and moths? Yes, they can. This is also the case with other species.

I have made a few visits to both zoos in Berlin, but I can see all the promoted animals far closer to home and this will also be the case for many zoo enthusiasts living in Germany.

Hello Dassie rat

I answer your first question with another question: Why travel people (specially women) a long way to buy stuff (clothes) that are available in their local town?
Then, as often said by others: Zoos use ABC-animals to promote theirselfes because ABC-visitors care for the money the zoos need. Elephants on the sign draw the masses, not tuataras! And even Zoo Berlin can not renounce on that.
And yes, I also believe that ABC-animals in zoos support the keeping of uncommon (and often also endangered) animals (that's sad, but the truth). I think this is also a reason why Rare Species Conservation Centre did not survive (= to few BIG ABC-animals).
Next: Butterflies do not belong to ABC-animals admittedly, but are interesting enough to stand for their own (in contrary to other species you mentioned). Butterfly houses all around the world prove that.
But have you ever heard of a tuatara or woodchuck only zoo? Why do you think nobody has opened such a "zoo" yet? (Sorry, sounds harsh, but should not be an offense in any way).
Finally: Don't forget that also ABC animals with a "special history" can draw ordinary zoo visitors (and sometimes zoo nerds too). And Berlin has had ("Knautsche", "Knut") and still has a few of them. And sometimes the same kind of animal can be interesting again when you can see it in a different exhibit...

 

[Bib Fortuna]

S American tapir in a S.E Asian pagoda, mixed messages!

And Black Rhinos, but the animals by themselfs don't care about that.....only purists are disturbed by such trivialities.

By the way-there are hundreds or more of the geographical mistakes in zoos around the world-Birdhosues, Penguin enclosures, Aquariums, African Savannahs, Pygmy marmosets in"Gorilla Congo"at the Bronx-Zoo, and many,many,many,many more examples...

I think, it is more important for the Rhinos and Tapirs at Berlin Zoos to get new and better enclosuers-if these will be located in a S.E.A. pagode, a northamerican indian tipi, an Inka temple, or an eskimo igloo makes no diffrent to the rhinos and tapirs-and not for 99,9 % of the visitors....

 

[LaughingDove]

Hello Zoomaniac

Would you travel a long way and spend a lot of money to buy things that are available in your local town?
Germany has lots of good zoos and I find it strange to advertise species kept by its competitors, rather than species that require a visit to Berlin. Several Zoochatters have visited zoos around the world. What would be the point if every zoo looked the same and had the same species?
It is sad that some Zoochatters believe that most visitors are only interested in about 50 types of animals, with other species only being of interest to Zoonerds. There seems to be the idea that ABC animals subsidise other species. I was at London Zoo's 'Butterfly Paradise' on Sunday and there were several children interested in the different stages of development in butterflies and moths. Do many people visit zoos to see butterflies and moths? Probably not. Can zoos and their staff encourage visitors to take an interest in butterflies and moths? Yes, they can. This is also the case with other species.

I have made a few visits to both zoos in Berlin, but I can see all the promoted animals far closer to home and this will also be the case for many zoo enthusiasts living in Germany.

Just stepping into the discussion with a quick point:

The number of people who travel to somewhere that is any significant distance away just to see a zoo is absolutely tiny.
For the average person, a good zoo will - at the very most - slightly influence their decision to visit a place.
The vast majority of people think I'm absolutely bonkers when I say that I visited a place just to see a zoo and for no other reason.

 

[kiang]

And Black Rhinos, but the animals by themselfs don't care about that.....only purists are disturbed by such trivialities.

I think, it is more important for the Rhinos and Tapirs at Berlin Zoos to get new and better enclosuers-if these will be located in a S.E.A. pagode, a northamerican indian tipi, an Inka temple, or an eskimo igloo makes no diffrent to the rhinos and tapirs-and not for 99,9 % of the visitors....

So black rhino too, that will make;

Black rhino at the Tierpark & zoo
Indian rhino at the zoo only
No white rhino.

Then why build a pagoda?, it makes no sense, just build a plain, no frills rhino & tapir house.
99.9% of the general public are not stupid, someone who thinks they are maybe....

 

[Bib Fortuna]

People do not visit zoos because of their buildings.By the way-the common zebras and eland at Berlin Zoo live in an arabian style house, but there are no zebras and elands in arabia-but nobody cares about that-did you ?

Berlin holds the most succesful breeding groups of black rhinos in europe-it makes a lot of sense keeping them at both places. Two rhino species in Berlin are enough, and I guess, most "zoonerds"know how a white rhino looks like...

 

[Batto]

99.9% of the general public are not stupid, someone who thinks they are maybe....

Maybe not stupid, but ignorant, uninterested, naive or simply clueless; I've seen too many people doing too many stupid things around animals to think otherwise.

@Dassie rat: what zoomaniac, Bib Fortuna and others already stated; sorry to poke holes into your laudable enthusiasm. Been there, know that feeling too well.
Zoo marketing focuses on the big crowd pleasures, with rare species randomly thrown in for a "freak of the week" effect or to promote a rare breeding success.

What Berlin Zoo could change though is update their animal information signs. I went to the Aquarium two weeks ago and was slightly surprised how little has improved over the years. I know that the zoo school and the zoo education team used to fight a trench war battle with the former director and hoped for the new one to stir up some things there for the better. Oh well...

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I never heard before that any zoos has stopped keeping another speices to get the space for a merkat exhibit...

You've made this claim before in a similar discussion under another of your usernames, I seem to recall, but I'll raise the same counter-example as I did last time; Edinburgh Zoo got rid of Syrian Marbled Polecat and European Souslik in order to bring in Meerkats a few years ago. The collection went out of the former taxon so that an enclosure could be available to quarantine a group of Meerkats at short notice, and then when they had ended their quarantine, the meerkats were moved into the souslik enclosure - soon after, the sousliks all disappeared