taun
Well-Known Member
I agree, am not happy with the way things have happened. Upali will be there for sometime still (Chester own him and they have yet to breed from him).
Chester Zoo Birma has gone to Romanèche, France
- Thread starter Upali
- Start date
I agree, am not happy with the way things have happened. Upali will be there for sometime still (Chester own him and they have yet to breed from him).
Isn't Raman Upali's son?
taun
Well-Known Member
Even if he was (I believe there is some debate on this matter) Raman is male and therefore would move on, meaning chester still have several females he can breed with.
Therefore untill he produce a few female calves he could stay for awhile yet because there is no females he could inbreed with.
If Birma didn't get along with Upali, it didn't matter except from a breeding point of view, as he's separated from the others most of the time anyway. I agree it was cruel to part her from Sheba too and i am still surprised Chester moved her on again, given that she appeared so well integrated with the other females.
Regarding anti-zoo people, they are more likely to be concerned about the move of the elephant itself, and not the reasons causing it, so I don't think it mattered in that respect. I'm just a bit perplexed why they didn't state the truth here.
as for Upali, I guess he'll be around for 5 years + to father more calves.
taun
Well-Known Member
Do mean he was born at the zoo or that he bred with females at the zoo?
Paulkarli08
Well-Known Member
How come there is debate over Upali fathering Raman? Upali was the only male present for Thi to mate with?
Was it thought Chang had a sly romance with Thi before he left for the french zoo?
Was it thought Chang had a sly romance with Thi before he left for the french zoo?
That he'd had had offspring there.
taun
Well-Known Member
Upali is listed as the sire, however at the time on conception Upali would have been 10 years old, and he was also quite small when Raman was born. I still think it’s possible it could be Chang.
If DNA test or someone know the if Upali is the true sire, then I apologise for this confusion.
Upali has mated with Jangoli, Sithami and Thi
Paulkarli08
Well-Known Member
Are they the only three that the zoo wanted to breed from (as well as being the only productive)?
taun
Well-Known Member
Sundara is potential but is still quite young, although her mum conceived her young as well.
Paulkarli08
Well-Known Member
Ah right, I'm surprised Jangolie is still reproductively active, given she is in her 40's!
That´s not unsual, the oldest female to give birth in a zoo is Warda from Ramat Gan, she had her last calf in 2006 when she was in her end-40`th (and she may breed again). Elephant females will reproduce well into their 40`th and maybe even their early 50`th if they start breeding early in life without too long breaks. If a female doesn`t have a calf until her early 20`th, it`s usually too late and she will never get pregnant. Same if she has an early calf and then 10+ years without breeding. Jangolie is a miracle because she had her first calf when she was already 30, and even more surprisingly she got pregnant again after the stillbirth and has since delivered 2 healthy calves. And now maybe a third? I keep my fingers crossed for a girl!
More than any other animals (perhaps excluding great apes) elephants are long-lived individuals and I would expect the zoo to have their best interests at heart. Birma was unlikely to breed but seemed to have formed a bond with Sheba and surely separating them now will have an effect on both of them. Also, the zoo has three breeding females, and as unthinkable as it was just a few years back, there is probably going to be a surfeit of young elephants, especially males, in the years to come. So the lack of breeding in Birma might not be that important. Who would have thought that some zoos would have gorillas on contraceptives?
This is more or less degressing back into a Chester only thread, whereas the original subject was a transferred female.
I would be interested to learn how Birma will develop at Romaneche and her future breeding prospects elsewhere! Perhaps, I should open another thread for that?
Perhaps one could better change the title of the thread to Chester's elephants?
I would be interested to learn how Birma will develop at Romaneche and her future breeding prospects elsewhere! Perhaps, I should open another thread for that?
Perhaps one could better change the title of the thread to Chester's elephants?
Its interesting that Upali grew up as part of the group. But the previous bull 'Chang' also seemed to be seperated in the bull pen most of the time, and now it seems to be the same with Upali.( and irrespective of Birma, who could be seperated with Sheba anyway) I am not quite sure why he's so often alone, possibly to prevent any unwanted early or unplanned pregnancies- though I've seen the youngest calves squeeze through the bars and join him.
Of the other three females, Sheba is far too old(I'm surprised she is still alive) Maya is non reproductive and Sundara too young- so at present there are only 3 breeding females, with a fourth(Sundara) later.
Birma was part of Chester's group so I think its perfectly logical to discuss their other elephants at the same time- especially as they are connected with Birma's departure in various ways.
As to Birma's future, if she has integrated well at Romaneche, I guess she will just stay there longterm thoiugh her breeding prospects will probably be no different than at Chester.
