Jordan-Jaguar97
Well-Known Member
Interesting to see what the studbook will say. Father-daughter breeding, however good news.
Blackpool Zoo Blackpool Zoo News 2014
- Thread starter alfiethetortois
- Start date
Interesting to see what the studbook will say. Father-daughter breeding, however good news.
Visited for the first time on Thursday and it was a really nice place. It felt like a trip to the past in a lot of ways, many unusual species you don't see all that much in Zoos and lots of Hagenbeck-style enclosures.
It was a real treat to see so many old world monkeys, this year's UK Challenge has really highlighted their scarcity.
The elephant house was a place I had mixed feelings about. It offered the best and closest view of elephants I've had since I feed Flossie and Flora with buns as a child at Dudley, and Marcella was a very impressive cow.
And I'm glad to have seen an old-fashioned elephant enclosure while it was occupied, but I'm very glad these are going to be the last elephants that live there.
I now understand completely why Anne went to Longleat rather than to Blackpool. On paper Blackpool sounded like a much better home but now I've seen it, it's barely adequate for the three elephants they have, let alone another. I couldn't help but think about the near-empty facilities at Noah's Ark.
The Blesbok were something I've been looking forward to seeing for a long time. I also got to see two animals I associate with being rather dull, porcupines and wolves in a new light. The two Iberian Wolves were pretty active and very handsome, much different to other wolves I've seen. And the North American Porcupines were such a contrast to the usual pile of sleeping Cape Porcupine.
It's not all old-fashioned though, the have the obligatory lemur walk-though, which was decent but not very interesting. Not properly manned though, I saw lemur almost escape though the double gates and several children touching the lemurs, though they were just quietly stroking them.
And of course, the obligatory double meerket exhibits. I think every single animal collection I've been to in the last 12 months has had two meerkat exhibits. There were also Long-nosed potoroos all over the place, I hope those become more popular in other collections.
The Dinosaur Safari was a bit of a amusing disappointment. If the models were accurate it would have been quite nice, but they would have been old fashioned when I was born, let alone in 2014. It felt like a bit of a waste of space.
It was a real treat to see so many old world monkeys, this year's UK Challenge has really highlighted their scarcity.
The elephant house was a place I had mixed feelings about. It offered the best and closest view of elephants I've had since I feed Flossie and Flora with buns as a child at Dudley, and Marcella was a very impressive cow.
And I'm glad to have seen an old-fashioned elephant enclosure while it was occupied, but I'm very glad these are going to be the last elephants that live there.
I now understand completely why Anne went to Longleat rather than to Blackpool. On paper Blackpool sounded like a much better home but now I've seen it, it's barely adequate for the three elephants they have, let alone another. I couldn't help but think about the near-empty facilities at Noah's Ark.
The Blesbok were something I've been looking forward to seeing for a long time. I also got to see two animals I associate with being rather dull, porcupines and wolves in a new light. The two Iberian Wolves were pretty active and very handsome, much different to other wolves I've seen. And the North American Porcupines were such a contrast to the usual pile of sleeping Cape Porcupine.
It's not all old-fashioned though, the have the obligatory lemur walk-though, which was decent but not very interesting. Not properly manned though, I saw lemur almost escape though the double gates and several children touching the lemurs, though they were just quietly stroking them.
And of course, the obligatory double meerket exhibits. I think every single animal collection I've been to in the last 12 months has had two meerkat exhibits. There were also Long-nosed potoroos all over the place, I hope those become more popular in other collections.
The Dinosaur Safari was a bit of a amusing disappointment. If the models were accurate it would have been quite nice, but they would have been old fashioned when I was born, let alone in 2014. It felt like a bit of a waste of space.
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
Yes I always enjoy my visits to Blackpool Zoo, I have visited it since it virtually opened and have followed its progress over the years with interest. Regarding the elephant house, this building was once a hanger when the site was an airfield, it became "the large mammal house" when the zoo opened housing two giraffe, two white rhino and the two young Asian elephants Katie and Crumple, who were purchased for the zoo by the Blackpool Landladies Association.Later the zoo went out of white rhinos and after that giraffe, although of coarse returning in a new enclosure later. The building then became the elephant house, two more elephants Indira and Marcella arrived from a bankrupt circus in Europe. Before the zoo went over to protected contact the elephants were lead to a nearby field for grazing, although I am not sure if this would still be permissible today since the zoo became a private venture and not run by the council. I find the interior of this house depressing, and it spoils my enjoyment of observing the elephants when inside, I never spend a great deal of time in there, unlike at other zoos, I wonder what the zoo's long term plans are for the keeping of elephants?, do they have plans to build a better facility for the three elephants, or considering the age of the three animals, do they intend just to let them live out the rest of their days in this adequate, but certainly not ideal elephant house and go out of keeping elephants in the future.
It reminds me of the era when elephants had it pretty rough.
Today most elephants have good sized enclosures and plenty of company, in the old days elephants worked closely with the keepers and spent a lot of the day out of their enclosures giving peoples rides or just being led around. The transition period trapped a lot of elephants in tiny enclosures with little to do and few companions.
It would be very nice if they could let the elephants out sometimes, but I don't think that is going to happen. Once a zoo stops doing that I don't think they could justify starting it again to their solicitors.
From what I know Blackpool are not going to do much with the exhibit, the girls have about 5-15 years left and once they have passed away they won't be keeping elephants anymore.
It would be nice if they spruced up the elephant house though, inside was really rather grotty, old blackened cobwebs and dust everywhere. Needs a good clean and some fresh paint. If they built a dedicated Reptile House they could double or triple the space inside the elephant house. Maybe even build them a pool.
Marcella wasn't mixed with the other two, and I didn't see he get let outside. Is that normal? If so, why?
Today most elephants have good sized enclosures and plenty of company, in the old days elephants worked closely with the keepers and spent a lot of the day out of their enclosures giving peoples rides or just being led around. The transition period trapped a lot of elephants in tiny enclosures with little to do and few companions.
It would be very nice if they could let the elephants out sometimes, but I don't think that is going to happen. Once a zoo stops doing that I don't think they could justify starting it again to their solicitors.
From what I know Blackpool are not going to do much with the exhibit, the girls have about 5-15 years left and once they have passed away they won't be keeping elephants anymore.
It would be nice if they spruced up the elephant house though, inside was really rather grotty, old blackened cobwebs and dust everywhere. Needs a good clean and some fresh paint. If they built a dedicated Reptile House they could double or triple the space inside the elephant house. Maybe even build them a pool.
Marcella wasn't mixed with the other two, and I didn't see he get let outside. Is that normal? If so, why?
I agree. I've only been there twice but was surprised at the rundown state of the Elephant House. I quickly recognised it was not purpose-built for Elephants and what its original use was, the Zoo having once been an airfield. That house seems to double as a reptile house too but it is all rather tatty.
I think Blackpool is probably a good enough collection nowadays without having to keep Elephants in the future and unless they build major new housing, rather hope that they will phase them out eventually.
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
A good valid point there, get rid of that tired rather uninteresting reptile collection which would enable the elephants inside accommodation to be improved, if not, at least give the place a good clean.
Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
Given their advanced age, and the fact they experienced fields and woodlands while in FC, I feel that it is in fact more pressing that the zoo invest some funds creating a corridor to a paddock area, or allowing the three cows to be moved to either Longleat when finished or Noah's Ark (I can't see this ever happening). It would appear as if they are happy to retain them until death, but I think there is no excuse for not improving the facility just because these animals are old. If they do, this is also going to entail a shrinking group, until a solitary cow remains, and which will be at greater risk being moved somewhere with othr elephants at an even more advanced age. But, then again, despite the Blackpool enclosure and house appearing fairly bleak, the use of soft substrates and the (accidentally) generous amount of indoor space there makes me wonder whether the facility lacks anything for its inhabitants compared to Chester or Belfast, other than cosmetic appeal, given that they only have to cater for three individuals.
I would be very happy to learn of the Blackpool cows moving to a newly-opened Longleat facility to join Anne, perhaps when this is completed we will all be surprised.
I would be very happy to learn of the Blackpool cows moving to a newly-opened Longleat facility to join Anne, perhaps when this is completed we will all be surprised.
Indra, their oldest elephant is 47 (born 1967). The other 2 are in a similar range over forties' (Katie - born 1969 and Marcella wild born 1972). If that is a good age for a last transfer is debatable …
It would be nice to know what plans they have after the elephants demise' for the old hangar …
BTW: I would favor Noah's Ark over Longleat ...
It would be nice to know what plans they have after the elephants demise' for the old hangar …
BTW: I would favor Noah's Ark over Longleat ...
I'd probably prefer Longleat, depending on the facilities there. I'd assume they are pretty good. Anne's set up looks nice from videos.
Noah's Ark seem to have no idea why they want elephants (other than they make the big bucks and Bristol can't have them), whether they want a sanctuary or to establish a breeding herd.
I can easily see them mixing the Blackpool girls with Buta, and then the Blackpool girls with a future breeding herd of Asians and Noah's Ark losing calves to herpes.
Blackpool have plenty of sand, but you could still see the concrete round the edges. At Chester the sand looked very deep.
Chester also have a real herd, a family of related females, but that's not something you can buy.
Noah's Ark seem to have no idea why they want elephants (other than they make the big bucks and Bristol can't have them), whether they want a sanctuary or to establish a breeding herd.
I can easily see them mixing the Blackpool girls with Buta, and then the Blackpool girls with a future breeding herd of Asians and Noah's Ark losing calves to herpes.
I can't speak for Belfast but Chester seems to have more space (even factoring the bigger herd), a pool and soft substrate throughout.
Blackpool have plenty of sand, but you could still see the concrete round the edges. At Chester the sand looked very deep.
Chester also have a real herd, a family of related females, but that's not something you can buy.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
I am no fan of Noahs but I will have to say that there Elephant House and enclosure is second to none in the UK,it is certainly on a par with Chester,Whipsnade and Howletts which have the best exhibits in the UK for Elephants,Belfast have a very good set up for none breeding females but can handle and house no more than what they have now.
No fan either …, just being realistic as to best possible options.
Also, NA is still not in EAZA ...
Also, NA is still not in EAZA ...
Communityzoo
Well-Known Member
Anne arrived at Longleat at 58. However, no established zoo would not want to risk the publicity of a death associated with an attempted transfer, I'm sure. And of course, Longleat's facility is yet to be built (Anne has a section of the rhino house), although recent photos suggest a new grass paddock has been added.
I just think with elephants in particular (and maybe this is slightly emotive for zoochat) that the older, wild-caught/logging camp individuals still alive in fairly large number have often experienced a lot of early trauma, have given a huge amount of time as zoo and circus exhibits across two centuries, have endured appalling conditions until the last couple of decades, and have often missed out on richer social groupings in their lifetimes - I believe therefore that these relics of late 20th Century zoo ideas should be treated with a little more reverance in the last years of their lives. These individuals likely remember, and often bear the scars of, the old days of elephant husbandry and enclosure design. Blackpool can afford to do something a bit more special, even with protected contact, otherwise they should really look at other options before their animals get any older.
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@CommunityZoo, for the reasons you cite, I am somewhat conservative on favoring a transfer. I assume mid-forties is really borderline when it comes to moving them to an elderly only elephant facility. It would require an all inclusive complete group transfer also. If not an option, they are best left in their current not so swanky abode with experienced keepers that are familiar with their personalities, proclivities and individual - social - problems / issues.
It would be nice to know what plans they have after the elephants demise' for the old hangar …
BTW: I would favor Noah's Ark over Longleat ...
Decontructed perhaps? Providing there is no dreaded preservation order on it....
Noahs v Longleat? As ZG said above, Noahs now have potentially one of the best Elephant facilties in the country, despite the place still being basically a farm. How bizarre is that? Longleat have plans to build something similar but it isn't there yet.
At least for asian elephants, I disagree. An asian elephant in his/her mid-40s that is otherwise healthy is not that close to death from old age (african elephants may be different, though). There are plenty of examples that Asian elephants in their 40s and even 50s can be moved with very low risk and with very good chances of sucess of integrating them into new environments. That only makes sense if there is a better option with a good facility available, though.
Sadly, most zoos with new elephant facilities want a breeding group and have no space for older females.. It is really awful that older elephants that have endured so much during their lives are often shipped off to live into cramped, outdated enclosures.
If Noah`s Ark became an EAZA and EEP member, I guess they could easily get serveral non-breeding females of each species in a rather short time. Same for Longleat if they updated their current facility. Better options for older elephants are really needed in Europe! I am very glad that the Blackpool elephants are no longer subjected to free contact training, but I wish they had more space outdoors. If Marcella has to be kept seperated from the others, they should really try to find her another home, though (Belfast currently only houses 3 elephants and should have space for 4, shouldn`t they?).
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
Yes Belfast currently have three Asian elephants, the fourth, Jenny, died last year. Marcella is noted as being separated from Indira and Katie on the day of the member's visit, it may not be the case that this is a permanent arrangement, it could be because she was being attended to personally, I understand that all three recently had foot X rays, it could have been that or for some other temporary reason.
Jordan-Jaguar97
Well-Known Member
Blackpool have announced via Facebook/Twitter that the four Orangutans have returned from Chester and will be on-show soon. I will be there at the weekend to see the exhibit (which from the outside looks fantastic!).
Jordan-Jaguar97
Well-Known Member
Marcella has been kept separate from the other two females 'Indra' and 'Kate' for a good while now, potentially since April/May.
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the information Jordan, I was thinking that you would know the recent situation, being a regular, good news about the orang house I look forward to seeing it.
Jordan-Jaguar97
Well-Known Member
No worries
- I think it was around about that time since they were separated however I cannot be 100% sure. Marcella has an injury of some sort and I believe this is the reason for her separation.