Blackpool Zoo Blackpool Zoo, UK
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I know a tiny bit, which may be very out of date. I remember them having about 4 orangs in quite a small exhibit. The gorillas used to live in a similar exhibit which was extended onto a large island. I heard the zoos had plans to build a similar island enclosure for the orangutans but as of yet i don't think that's happened. I think the zoo has had some problem in the past with the great apes- quite a few died in a short period of time. I don't know if the deaths were ever proven to be linked or whether it was just coincidence.
Blackpool Zoo :: Home to over 1500 animals from all over the world :: A fantastic attraction and day out!!! Have you seen this?
Sorry to be of very little help, this is all I know really.
Blackpool Zoo :: Home to over 1500 animals from all over the world :: A fantastic attraction and day out!!! Have you seen this?
Sorry to be of very little help, this is all I know really.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Yep it is true great piece of animal sexing the bit that surprises me is the fact that no one noticed any sign of nest digging in the enclosure,i know i didn`t when i was their in August,but any way well done to Blackpool for a U.K first breeding of this species.
maybe someone threw in their pet baby caiman? 
It was just a coincidence. A Gorilla and an Oranutan died within 48 hours of each other, and another had died not long before(or after?) There wasn't any connection despite the usual accusations of 'bad management'- in fact I know their Apes are actually very WELL cared for.
They have bred several Orangutans, so far no Gorillas though. (They need to swap their male- then they probably would.)
grantsmb,
Since you are the one in the know on the gorillas. Which gorillas make up the Blackpool troupe? Why do you think the current silverback is lousy for love?
Since you are the one in the know on the gorillas. Which gorillas make up the Blackpool troupe? Why do you think the current silverback is lousy for love
?Blackpool Gorillas.
Blackpool Gorillas;
First trio were from 1970's- Kumba and females Lomie and Kukee.
These never bred, despite a couple of exchanges of males with Edinburgh.
Before the females died, Kumba was sent to Europe(he's dead too) and male Jitu arrived from Heidleburg Zoo. After Lomie and Kukee died, new females were added with Jitu still the male.
Current group; silverback Jitu.
1.3 females, Njeema and Mliki- both born in Apenheul.
female Kena- proven breeder from Barcelona -she is a daughter of the White Gorilla 'Snowflake'.
Jitu did some mating with one (but not the other) of the two Apenheul females, but it hasn't produced a pregnancy. Kena was added more recently but I don't know if he is interested in her.
Current EEP recommendation is to move either N'Jeema or Miliki to London Zoo and replace her at Blackpool with a young female(Buu) from Chessington. I doubt either Blackpool or Chessington will agree to this! Also it doesn't take into account that Jitu is not performing properly with three good females- so I don't think changing females is the answer here. Jitu is the problem. Blackpool may already have requested him to be transferred before but nothing has happened so far.
Jitu grew up at Heidleburg with female 'Moseka'. They never bred but Moseka has several babies since being transferred to Yaounde's group at Vallee de Singes in France.
grantsmb,
Since you are the one in the know on the gorillas. Which gorillas make up the Blackpool troupe? Why do you think the current silverback is lousy for love
Blackpool Gorillas;
First trio were from 1970's- Kumba and females Lomie and Kukee.
These never bred, despite a couple of exchanges of males with Edinburgh.
Before the females died, Kumba was sent to Europe(he's dead too) and male Jitu arrived from Heidleburg Zoo. After Lomie and Kukee died, new females were added with Jitu still the male.
Current group; silverback Jitu.
1.3 females, Njeema and Mliki- both born in Apenheul.
female Kena- proven breeder from Barcelona -she is a daughter of the White Gorilla 'Snowflake'.
Jitu did some mating with one (but not the other) of the two Apenheul females, but it hasn't produced a pregnancy. Kena was added more recently but I don't know if he is interested in her.
Current EEP recommendation is to move either N'Jeema or Miliki to London Zoo and replace her at Blackpool with a young female(Buu) from Chessington. I doubt either Blackpool or Chessington will agree to this! Also it doesn't take into account that Jitu is not performing properly with three good females- so I don't think changing females is the answer here. Jitu is the problem. Blackpool may already have requested him to be transferred before but nothing has happened so far.
Jitu grew up at Heidleburg with female 'Moseka'. They never bred but Moseka has several babies since being transferred to Yaounde's group at Vallee de Singes in France.
I saw Jitu mating with one of the younger females last summer - the only gorilla mating I have seen in the best part of 50 years of zoo visiting 
So I agree that he is most likely to be the main problem.
Alan
So I agree that he is most likely to be the main problem.
Alan
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I wish that with the Great Ape Crisis in the wild that evey European zoo would be challenged by the EEP Coordinator to breed from their animals and when that is not on the cards to swap animals more speedily?
I still advocate the line that the late John Aspinall has been treading on this. Breed to excess and then use the surplus to initiate reintroduction and restocking exercises. In that the man was visionary .. if you ask me
.
I still advocate the line that the late John Aspinall has been treading on this. Breed to excess and then use the surplus to initiate reintroduction and restocking exercises. In that the man was visionary .. if you ask me
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MARK
Well-Known Member
John Aspinall
I still advocate the line that the late John Aspinall has been treading on this. Breed to excess and then use the surplus to initiate reintroduction and restocking exercises. In that the man was visionary .. if you ask me.[/QUOTE]
You are quite right Jelle John was a man years ahead of his time his breeding record at his zoos is outstanding as a case in point as the Gorillas, I understand they have bred more than 100 now. The condition of his animals are amazing one of the very best animal collections that I have seen.
I still advocate the line that the late John Aspinall has been treading on this. Breed to excess and then use the surplus to initiate reintroduction and restocking exercises. In that the man was visionary .. if you ask me
.[/QUOTE]You are quite right Jelle John was a man years ahead of his time his breeding record at his zoos is outstanding as a case in point as the Gorillas, I understand they have bred more than 100 now. The condition of his animals are amazing one of the very best animal collections that I have seen.
I saw Jitu mating with one of the younger females last summer - the only gorilla mating I have seen in the best part of 50 years of zoo visiting
So I agree that he is most likely to be the main problem.
Alan
That would have been N'jeema- he doesn't mate M'liki apparently.
Like you, I've seen very few matings in a comparable period- about four...
Re Jitu- the staff there have been talking about getting a replacement male for a long while now but still it hasn't happened. One outstanding problem is where to place Jitu if he was moved- he would have to join a male group- not so easy with a mature silverback... Its almost as if they are stuck with him permanently and very frustrating as here are three prime females(Njeema and Mliki have perfect backgrounds, coming from Apenheul, while Kena is a proven breeder already) but with no breeding..
OOOOH, this has been my biggest rant over decades of Gorilla interest....
It was even worse a few decades back- zoos had platonic non-breeding pairs('we hope our gorillas will breed' said the guidebooks) and never swapped them at all. But even now the exchanges can still take years to execute. I believe the main reason females are usually transferred is because its easier but it doesn't necessarily solve the problem, if its the male which is no good. The problem with transferring males is what do you do with a fully mature Silverback which has been in a group a long while, but isn'tany/much good for breeding? They won't fit into male groups so easily. Solitary life? Where?
The current males causing problems in UK are; Blackpool- Jitu.
Jersey- Ya Kwanza
Belfast- Boulas(at least he may now go back to Port Lympne)
In all these three zoos, the unsatisfactory situation has remained static for YEARS now. (I could add London too as I believe that Bongo/Bobby is a nonstarter too but I hope I'm proved wrong as he's w/c...
Where Aspinall scored over the traditional zoos was in having a larger number of animals to start with. Even he had teething troubles- his original male died, and the next one in line was infertile. It was only when he got a proven male from Lincoln Park, Chicago that things finally started happening. If the original male(Kulu) hadn't died, he would probably have had his first Gorilla birth nearly TEN years earlier.
As the groups grew, there were few problems of non-breeding as the larger number of animals stimulate each other. It should be noted however that even here some individuals have failed to breed, in this nearly ideal situation.
As I understand it we need 3 sets of gorilla groups: breeding families, bachelor male groups and ... ahum ... (I dare say it to a social species) solitary males. 
We need acco. for these solitary non-breeding males.
We need acco. for these solitary non-breeding males.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could find an eccentric millionaire (or billionaire) to build a European version of Gorilla Haven?
I'd vounteer to do it myself, but I lack almost a million qualifications
Alan
I'd vounteer to do it myself, but I lack almost a million qualifications
Alan
As I understand it we need 3 sets of gorilla groups: breeding families, bachelor male groups and ... ahum ... (I dare say it to a social species) solitary males.
not to be picky but in the wild male gorillas do often live solitarily [before anyone argues that, I'm not saying it is standard for male gorillas to live solitarily, just that some do]. It is of course different for a gorilla to "choose" to live alone in the wild, and one being made to in captivity. My point is just that it is not "unnatural" for it to occur.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could find an eccentric millionaire (or billionaire) to build a European version of Gorilla Haven?
I'd vounteer to do it myself, but I lack almost a million qualifications
Alan
The problem with Gorilla haven is that the eventual plan is to act as a 'bank' for animals that may be moved back out into the zoo population should their genes be required. An entirely reasonable process apart from the fact that, compared to the facilities there, many zoos have appalling accomodation for their gorillas. So, in welfare terms you have a potential situation of gorillas spending time at a first-class facility only to be exposed suddenly to high visitor volume, far inferior enclosures in order to breed from them.
As I understand it we need 3 sets of gorilla groups: breeding families, bachelor male groups and ... ahum ... (I dare say it to a social species) solitary males.
Yes we do... Its the adult silverbacks which haven't been successful as breeders who are the worst problem. Also, to suddenly keep them solitary is a hard wrench with associated problems- bad publicity, who can house them etc. It is a major problem but I feel it is definately hindering breeding at some locations.
Melbourne recently changed their two males over as you know, they overcame the problem of a solitary male by creating a batchelor group around their previous successful male Motaba and his two sons. But most zoos aren't in that fortunate situation.
Berlin have 'Ivo' another non-satisfactory male- now they are probably going to form a subgroup with him and their two very old females- again, it solves the issue of where else he could go.
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