Blackpool Zoo Blackpool Zoo, UK

[Sand Cat]

Orang enclosure is a very basic ape design. Old brick building with a small grassed paddock with wooden climbing frame surrounded by concrete stepped moat filled with water. Very poor when compared to the gorillas.

Dolphins are unlikely. The current sealion pool was originally designed with dolphins in mind, which explains why it is a decent size (for sealions) - that would be my guess at why the idea was being mooted. There was talk of having underwater viewing for the sealions when the first takeover was happening, however whole enclosure will need scrapping in the near future due to concrete cancer.

If you think keeping polar bears and elephants in captivity gives the animal 'rights' groups ammunition...

Blackpool has never had much money thrown at in the days of being council-run. One only has to look at the state of many fences (state of near collapse). The design of enclosures throughout the zoo also reflects this lack of modernization since the '70s. The current management regime also hinders development and moving forward. Compare Blackpool to Marwell which are both the same age! I realise that the buyout was intended to overcome some of these problems and although I haven't been back up there since the takeover I see little improvement/change (plastic dinosaur amusement parks aside). It will be interesting to see if the second new owners pump the capital in. My thoughts are that they will always struggle. The 'clientel' coming to Blackpool was the worst I have ever seen at a zoo that I have worked in. And also Chester is just down the road...

I was at the zoo last year and I actually think it looks the best I have ever seen it since I started visiting in about 1993! The new walk-through enclosure with squirrel monkeys etc. is an absolutely brilliant exhibit and it's probably one of my most enjoyable zoo experiences ever. Some of the other primtaes have been given good new hotwired enclosures, such as howlers and spider monkeys. The new big cat development and the entrance building are also very impressive. There have also been some very promising new additions to the collection in recent times - red river hogs, bongos, vicuna, red fronted lemurs and red pandas spring to mind.

I think and hope that Blackpool Zoo continues to prosper - whilst it does look quite dated in places, I think that things are definitly looking up, and hopefully the arrival of giraffes later this year will bring the crowds in. Rome wasn't built in a day but they're certainly making progress!

 

[johnstoni]

The 'clientel' coming to Blackpool was the worst I have ever seen at a zoo that I have worked in. And also Chester is just down the road...

Exactly. When a huge proportion of your customers just want parrot shows and to see things being fed, it doesn't make sense to invest in low-level improvements. How do you compete with chester and stay a serious collection?

Interestingly, we have been talking about zoos doing well/badly with primates on other threads. I get the impression that blackpool is an example of a collection with monkey facilities no better than anywhere else, yet whoever is running the section there is obviously doing great things, given their breeding rates with titis, king colobus, and de brazza guenons over the last few years. Not just the occasional birth, but sustained breeding success. Compare this to many other collections holding some of the more difficult primate species to breed, and it really says a lot for Blackpool.

 

[Pertinax]

Not just the occasional birth, but sustained breeding success. Compare this to many other collections holding some of the more difficult primate species to breed, and it really says a lot for Blackpool.

Its unfortunate Blackpool have yet to breed a Gorilla- despite having kept them since c.1973.. the original trio(Lomie, Kukee & Kumba) didn't breed. The current group contains two perfectly socialised young females(Mliki & Njeema) born into the Apenheul group with the more recent addition of an older female 'Kena' who has bred previously at Barcelona(she is one of 'Snowflake's daughters). The fault here seems to lie with male Jitu, some mating has been recorded but there have been no pregnancies. He needs to be moved a.s.a.p ( it should have been done a long while back) in order to bring in a replacement male but obviously there is a problem rehousing him.

 

[Pertinax]

Orang enclosure is a very basic ape design. Old brick building with a small grassed paddock with wooden climbing frame surrounded by concrete stepped moat filled with water.
moving forward.

I'm rather at a loss to know why the moat was later filled with water as it reduced the amount of space for the apes. Perhaps to keep them away from the glass though I doubt they could reach from down there. I wonder if after the loss of 'Beau' it will revert to being dry again?

Its surprising they have never updated the outdoor enclosure or given the Orangutans more sophisticated climbing equipment as it is very basic. However it proves that enclosure quality really has very little(if any) bearing on breeding success as they have had several young born there.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Its unfortunate Blackpool have yet to breed a Gorilla- despite having kept them since c.1973.. the original trio(Lomie, Kukee & Kumba) didn't breed. The current group contains two perfectly socialised young females(Mliki & Njeema) born into the Apenheul group with the more recent addition of an older female 'Kena' who has bred previously at Barcelona(she is one of 'Snowflake's daughters). The fault here seems to lie with male Jitu, some mating has been recorded but there have been no pregnancies. He needs to be moved a.s.a.p ( it should have been done a long while back) in order to bring in a replacement male but obviously there is a problem rehousing him.

I wonder why the EEP does not intervene actively on behalf o Blackpool (and Twycross for that matter) to improve breeding prospects and rates. In an Great Ape species that is in crisis in the wild it would be fundamental to increase captive numbers, perhaps even to augment the developping reintroduction projects of JAF in Gabon and Congo Brazzaville!

Regarding the orang utans: 1) Does anyone know what plans exist for a new enclosure (Masterplan anyone?)? 2) A view to a replacement male for breeding? 3) Do the orangs breed at Blackpool at all? 4) Which individuals are there?

 

[Sand Cat]

Dolphins are unlikely. The current sealion pool was originally designed with dolphins in mind, which explains why it is a decent size (for sealions) - that would be my guess at why the idea was being mooted. There was talk of having underwater viewing for the sealions when the first takeover was happening, however whole enclosure will need scrapping in the near future due to concrete cancer.

At the risk of sounding very dim: what is "concrete cancer"? I hope that the sealions will stay at Blackpool and get a good new pool, as this zoo has had a fair amount of success with the species.

 

[Pertinax]

At the risk of sounding very dim: what is "concrete cancer"? I hope that the sealions will stay at Blackpool and get a good new pool, as this zoo has had a fair amount of success with the species.

At a guess I reckon it means the concrete is about to break up, if it isn't doing so already. So a new pool is needed.

 

[Pertinax]

I wonder why the EEP does not intervene actively on behalf o Blackpool (and Twycross for that matter) to improve breeding prospects and rates.

Blackpool Gorilla problem is a parallel situation to Jersey's- an unsatisfactory silverback which is difficult to place elsewhere. Their indoor quarters are quite large though so I think they could add another younger male and still keep 'Jitu' as well. The problem is he might well have to be separated and then be isolated indoors a lot which will invoke critisism.

Bornean Orangutans- there is another similar-aged young male as 'Beau' (who came from Twycross) called 'Ramon'( he came from Moscow or somewhere like that) though he is a bit weedy. Beau and Ramon were both handreared and lived as youngsters at Blackpool with the others in the group. There is no other (older) male there.

There is one breeding female 'Victoria' (the only fully adult animal) and two of her daughters 'Cherie' (who is probably old enough to breed now) and the much younger 'Summer.'
The last breeding male died quite a while ago, 'Beau' and 'Ramon' being added as company for the younger females. However, 'Ramon' could well be old enough to breed now or soon(they sometimes can at 6+) with 'Victoria' and 'Cherie'.

I don't know of any plans for a new Orangutan enclosure but it is long overdue.

 

[^Chris^]

I don't know of any plans for a new Orangutan enclosure but it is long overdue.

When I went back in around 1999 we attended the ape talk. The presenter said there were plans to build an orangutan island much like the gorilla one, I think there is a lawn between there enclosure, and the tapirs, near where the otters are, on which it could be built. Ten years on, and there is nothing. I think this is a shame, because there enclosure is really bad, whilst I think the gorilla one is actually ok.

 

[Pertinax]

When I went back in around 1999 we attended the ape talk. The presenter said there were plans to build an orangutan island much like the gorilla one, Ten years on, and there is nothing. I think this is a shame, because there enclosure is really bad, whilst I think the gorilla one is actually ok.

plans plans.. but when? Possibly never if I know Blackpool...

The gorilla exhibit is okay because they added the Island-which used to be a moated rock for Chamois. Before that it was more basic with only the simple glass walled outside enclosure, but it was still better than the Orangutan one.

They have been talking about replacing 'Jitu' for about five years now- but still nothing happens in that direction either..

 

[johnstoni]

Does anybody know much about the Lowland Gorilla EEP? How much control do they have? Does the main holder of UK gorillas participate much in this program? Even if they do, I can't see Howletts agreeing to send male gorillas to other collecitons unless they are willing to do so. Where is the source of the hold-up with non-breeding male gorillas in the UK?

You could actually make the orang enclosure pretty amazing without building a new one. Without water in the moat, and some proper, extensive climbing structures and planting, the exhibit could be transformed for a less cost than an extra 'island'. I don't know why they don't get the TA in to build something, as distasteful as I find that, it seems to be the trend of late.

The points made on this thread about the proximity of chester are very good ones I think....how will Blackpool survive as Chester grows?

 

[tetrapod]

Regarding some of the previous comments:

Concrete cancer is indeed where the concrete is either poorly prepared in the first place and starts to break away, or more usually the metal reinforcing starts to rot from within. I don't recall any particular problems with the pool but the surrounding exhibit which is also mostly concrete is in poor shape. The water in the pool is an artificial saltwater (better than chlorine for the sealions) and whether this is having an effect, I don't know.

The primate collection outstrips the rest of the collection easily. Why? Because the current zoo manager is a primate person. While I agree it is nice to see some species that are harder to find in collections (red titis, red-fronted lemur), one must really look beyond the 'menagerie' and consider the enclosures. Yes some are in hotwired open pens, but at the end of the day king colobus, spider monkeys, gibbons and orang-utans do not naturally live in grassy paddocks with a few dead trees as climbing material. Blackpool is no where near the worst zoo for it, but my point is that they don't exactly 'push the envelope'. Money comes into the equation, but really they aren't doing anything that we haven't seen before.

As so far the 'newer' exhibits - gorilla mountain and the squirrel monkey walkthrough - these are just rehashed old enclosures. The former was an island that held a variety of sheep-like animals, left untended for years and then joined to the existing gorilla enclosure. As for the latter I don't know all the details, but it was talked about prior to me leaving. The enclosure is just the former free-flight aviary re-jigged for squirrel monkeys. It was falling to bits previously, full of mallards, pigeons and rats. For a while we even had free-flying waldrapps! Not intensionally of course.

Some species that are not common in zoos that they do have - vicuna, bongo, mountain zebra - are a result of the previous management, a certain Mr Valentine. You may recognise his hand in obtaining rare EEP program species!

 

[tetrapod]

Regarding the apes specifically:

Blackpool has been quite successful at breeding Bornean orangs in the past. But I hark back to my previous comments that the enclosure is not suitable in this age to manage the number of animals they have - not sure how many they have at the moment but usually around 5. Again I haven't seen Chester's new exhibit but from all reports it is very impressive. Compare also to Paignton's ape enclosures and Blackpool is looking very shabby inspite of the breeding success. Only Twycross is in the same league of (some) good breeding success in spite of dire enclosures, within the UK.

I'm not entirely convinced that the gorilla problem is down to the male Jitu. I have worked with variety of apes in the past (although gorillas are not one of them - shame) and general differences in the four+ ape species do come into play. If orangs have the height then it goes along way to making them comfortable. Chimps love company and being occupied. Gorillas want seclusion. If you have ever seen the gorilla enclosures at Melbourne and Taronga in Australia you will understand where I'm coming from. I'm not saying either is perfect but Melbourne's group have far more depth in the enclosure. Taronga has a beautiful group which they shoved into a beautifully-landscaped narrow strip to maximise customer viewing. The result is the male spending long hours with his back to the crowd and not proving to be the best breeder (although this may have changed).

Moving back to Blackpool the 'island' part of the exhibit is fine. However you rarely (or did) see a gorilla in the old part of the exhibit because there is no vegetation. But like most UK/European zoos the gorillas are on display when inside. Again the problem is a narrow strip of inside space with a crowd of nosey humans peering through a window! Interestingly Jersey's enclosure is not disimilar. However I don't rule out individual personalities, as it sounds like Jersey's Ya Kwanza was introduced too early to the established harem. It could well be that if Jitu was in a more secluded exhibit then he may feel comfortable with breeding.

 

[Pertinax]

Regarding the apes specifically:

Blackpool has been quite successful at breeding Bornean orangs in the past. not sure how many they have at the moment but usually around 5.

I'm not convinced that the gorilla problem is down to the male Jitu. Gorillas want seclusion. If you have ever seen the gorilla enclosures at Melbourne and Taronga in Australia you will understand where I'm coming from.

Taronga has a beautiful group which they shoved into a beautifully-landscaped narrow strip to maximise customer viewing. The result is the male spending long hours with his back to the crowd and not proving to be the best breeder (although this may have changed).

It could well be that if Jitu was in a more secluded exhibit then he may feel comfortable with breeding.

1. Currently 4- Victoria, Cherie, Summer & Ramon (was 5 with Beau.)

2. I've seen both Melbourne and Taronga gorilla enclosures. Melbourne's is far superior. Taronga's is too small and too narrow(it was built for Giant Pandas) and as you said, they can't get away from the public. However Kibabu HAS been a very successful breeder, the limited number of births at Taronga being due to the females being on contraceptives, not his performance. Lack of privacy has definately not affected his breeding ability.

3. At Blackpool Jitu has three perfectly socialised and prime aged females at his disposal- there MUST be a good reason why none of them have become pregnant since they arrived. I feel it has little or nothing to do with the housing though if Jitu likes privacy for mating there are plenty of daylight hours before and after the zoo is open to the public. I think its to do with Jitu's own'personality' - either a lack of interest in mating (he was handreared at Stuttgart) or possibly his fertility is suspect?

 

[kiang]

2. I've seen both Melbourne and Taronga gorilla enclosures. Melbourne's is far superior. Taronga's is too small and too narrow(it was built for Giant Pandas)

Pertinax, i think the gorilla enclosure at Taronga was specifically built for the gorillas with sponsorship from McDonalds, the giant panda were on exhibit in either the current lion or tiger enclosure which was specially built for the pandas, but knowing my track record here i will be proven wrong, and if so i apologise in advance pertinax

 

[Pertinax]

Does anybody know much about the Lowland Gorilla EEP? How much control do they have? Does the main holder of UK gorillas participate much in this program? Even if they do, I can't see Howletts agreeing to send male gorillas to other collecitons unless they are willing to do so. Where is the source of the hold-up with non-breeding male gorillas in the UK?

This has been discussed before in relation to Twycross's relative lack of Gorilla breeding. Basically they make recommendations but they can't force the zoo that owns the animals to comply if they don't want. They can pressurise but not much else. Some recommended moves happen, some don't.

With such large Gorilla numbers Howletts/Port Lympne are largely a law unto themselves. In the past they have ignored EEP recommendations but they do send out animals that are 'spare'(mostly males) to some other collections and I don't think they are really included in the EEP recommended movesanymore.. There are Howletts/Port Lympne animals currently at Belfast(1.0) St Martin la Plaine (1.2) and Beauval (0.2) both in France, while Taronga's silverback was also Howletts born( though via Apenheul) They only very rarely trade animals with ZSL, the reason no Howletts gorillas have been added to the current London 'group' despite it seeming to be an obvious source for more animals..

The main problem with the non-breeding silverbacks is where to place them. They can't easily be introduced into batchelor groups so they may face a life of solitary confinement if moved out of their existing groups. One alternative if space allows, is to add a 'better' male in each case while retaining the 'dud' as well.

 

[Pertinax]

the giant panda were on exhibit in either the current lion or tiger enclosure which was specially built for the pandas, but knowing my track record here i will be proven wrong, and if so i apologise in advance pertinax

I'm sure you're wrong here... and the Gorilla enclosure still looks just like a Panda exhibit, rockwall backdrop and rocks and a waterfall. Its way too small for the gorilla group and was mostly just bare earth when I saw it.. I think they named it the Mcdonald's Gorilla forest after the Pandas left...

 

[Pertinax]

! However I don't rule out individual personalities, as it sounds like Jersey's Ya Kwanza was introduced too early to the established harem.

Yes, I think Ya Kwanza was introduced at too young an age to the established Jersey females and it later soured his relationships, except for Halalli Kahilli who was the same age as him and became his playmate. I believe they started mating as an extension of this play and he has remained a 'monogamous' male ever since, very unusual...

In Jitu's case he came to Blackpool before any of these females arrived, so was already the dominant animal. He arrived in 1999 as a mature animal. Njeema was the first of the females - came in April 2002 and M'liki followed soon after. So he's already had about 6 years without a result. I heard he mates sporadically with Mliki but not with Njeema(or vice versa) buit I don't know about his relationship with the older female Kena. Something isn't right though...

 

[johnstoni]

The primate collection outstrips the rest of the collection easily. Why? Because the current zoo manager is a primate person. While I agree it is nice to see some species that are harder to find in collections (red titis, red-fronted lemur), one must really look beyond the 'menagerie' and consider the enclosures. Yes some are in hotwired open pens, but at the end of the day king colobus, spider monkeys, gibbons and orang-utans do not naturally live in grassy paddocks with a few dead trees as climbing material. Blackpool is no where near the worst zoo for it, but my point is that they don't exactly 'push the envelope'. Money comes into the equation, but really they aren't doing anything that we haven't seen before.

...its been about 12 years since I last visited- I was under the impression that the colobus were housed by the gibbons on those islands...are you saying that many of the primates have now been given hotwired grass pens? I remember there was also a smaller main monkey house as well as the islands, I guess some species are still here, while the squirrel/titi monkeys are in the old walk through aviary?

 

[tetrapod]

Sorry I was forgetting who was in what enclosure. You are right gibbons and colobus are on the islands. I should have probably said the lemurs (now someone will point out that ringtails aren't exactly a rainforest species... my point still stands, they are not a savannah species).

I am inclined to agree with kiang - I am sure that Taronga's gorilla enclosure was designed specifically for gorillas. The inside quarters would have been over-designed for pandas. Possible confusion with Melbourne's gorilla enclosure which was built for the great panda tour, but was always destined for the gorillas.