Blackpool Zoo Blackpool Zoo, UK

[tetrapod]

Regarding Jitu:

Yes it could well be that he is a dud. He was only with the two older (now deceased) females and the young Apenheul female when I was there. However I'm not sure that the rearing is necessarily the problem. As I understand Stuttgart has an excellent record of hand-raising apes of all species for European zoos and then socialising them back into groups. That is not say they always get it right! I just don't think one can rule out factors such as enclosure design, stress and management of an individual, that under different circumstances may see a different result. I don't know how important genetically Jitu is but certainly Ya Kwanza comes from a relatively unrepresented genetic line.

Overall I think it is important that if zoos take on any species that they need to take on board all the requirements to manage them properly - not just because it is a big name species that brings people in. To my mind Blackpool could turn there gorilla enclosure into a chimp enclosure (which are alot more tolerable towards humans) and I'm sure the public would find it a more interesting and dynamic display. They won't, but that is another arguement.

 

[Pertinax]

I am sure that Taronga's gorilla enclosure was designed specifically for gorillas. The inside quarters would have been over-designed for pandas. Possible confusion with Melbourne's gorilla enclosure which was built for the great panda tour, but was always destined for the gorillas.

I'm equally positive Taronga's was built for the Pandas! This was discussed in one of the Australian threads and I seem to remember opinions were divided but eventually their resident expert 'ZooPro' confirmed my belief. It certainly did look to me like an ex Panda enclosure rather than designed specifically for Gorillas. It seems so narrow. Possibly the more complex sleeping/feeding dens for the Gorillas were added before the group arrived?

I was equally unaware Melbourne's enclosure had ever held Pandas... Its certainly way ahead of Taronga's as far as space, cover and general suitability (for Gorillas) is concerned.

 

[Pertinax]

Regarding Jitu:

Yes it could well be that he is a dud. . However I'm not sure that the rearing is necessarily the problem. As I understand Stuttgart has an excellent record of hand-raising apes of all species for European zoos and then socialising them back into groups. I don't know how important genetically Jitu is but certainly Ya Kwanza comes from a relatively unrepresented genetic line.

I feel sure, sadly, that it is Jitu at fault here though I'm not sure exactly what the problem is. I know he does at least some mating but it may be limited and not with all three females.

Handraising can affect different male gorillas in different ways, especially depending on what happens afterward. Jitu went from Stuttgart to Heidleberg Zoo where he was kept with a single female 'Moseka'. Evidently they formed a platonic pair as they never bred. Jitu was later sent to Blackpool and 'Moseka' joined the 'Vallee de Singes' group in France where she has bred well after the change of partners. Unfortunately Jitu hasn't been so successful.

Jitu is genetically fairly important as his mother 'Undi' has very few surviving offspring, though his father's side is well represented. Ya Kwanza at Jersey is the only son of Melbourne's 'Rigo' ande also genetically valuable.

I don't have any critisism of Blackpool keeping a Gorilla group, only that they can't get them breeding. Its not surprising either that Jitu didn't breed with Lomie and Kukee, but it seems odd to me he hasn't done so with the current females. Njeema and M'Liki should each be raising their second infant by now, whereas in fact there seems no likelhood of any of them getting pregnant while he's still the male..

 

[Pertinax]

I'm equally positive Taronga's was built for the Pandas!

I found the Taronga thread which mentions this- Pandas were exhibited in this enclosure in 1988 and it was later converted for the Gorillas.

 

[Sand Cat]

As so far the 'newer' exhibits - gorilla mountain and the squirrel monkey walkthrough - these are just rehashed old enclosures. The former was an island that held a variety of sheep-like animals, left untended for years and then joined to the existing gorilla enclosure. As for the latter I don't know all the details, but it was talked about prior to me leaving. The enclosure is just the former free-flight aviary re-jigged for squirrel monkeys. It was falling to bits previously, full of mallards, pigeons and rats. For a while we even had free-flying waldrapps! Not intensionally of course.

Actually what you've just stated in a negative sense, is something that I like about Blackpool Zoo. In those 2 exhibits you name, they have taken existing spaces and, with a bit of imagination and probably on quite a low budget, they've created something quite special and appealing. Not only do these enclosures give their inhabitants far more space than they ever had before, but they add so much to the visitor experience - particuarly the squirrel monkeys.

So many zoos just throw money at designers and builders and expect brilliant enclosures. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I do think that sometimes the simplest ideas are the best, and I admire the way that Blackpool Zoo have taken what was previously wasted space, and turned it into 2 of the best parts of the zoo. To me that shows imgination and it's very impressive!

 

[Pertinax]

In those 2 exhibits you name, they have taken existing spaces and, with a bit of imagination and probably on quite a low budget, they've created something quite special and appealing.

The addition of the old Chamois rock as a vegetation-clad Gorilla 'island' was very innovative and has proved a very valuable addition to the enclosure. Although it wasn't purpose built it has provided a very suitable habitat and is the outdoor area definately ranks as one of the best in the UK.

 

[CZJimmy]

Am I right in thinking that London Zoo used images of Blackpool's gorillas as publicity for Gorilla Kingdom, or was it Bristol's?

 

[Writhedhornbill]

Chester used images of Belfast's Black lion tamarins, Pied tamarins and Geoffroy's marmosets to Publicise miniature monkeys, so it is not unheard of...

 

[Pertinax]

Am I right in thinking that London Zoo used images of Blackpool's gorillas as publicity for Gorilla Kingdom, or was it Bristol's?

Blackpool's, but I think only against the old grassy enclosure background. On the new ZSL cage labelling and information boards it is also Blackpool's 'Jitu' who features, not the London male- not that anyone would ever notice!

 

[CZJimmy]

Blackpool's, but I think only against the old grassy enclosure background. On the ZSL cage labelling it is also Blackpool's 'Jitu' who features, not the London male- not that anyone would ever notice!

I noticed

I think they used the new enclosure, because the GK double page in the 2007 guide book shows a quite impressive male gorilla walking amongst some bushes (and from photos i've seen, both the gorilla itself and scenery looked similar to Blackpool)

 

[CZJimmy]

This is a similar image to the one I was referring to...

*Taken from Flickr, so credit due to Flickr member 'Vlad The Impaler'*

 

[gentle lemur]

. . .
the 'island' part of the exhibit is fine. However you rarely (or did) see a gorilla in the old part of the exhibit because there is no vegetation. But like most UK/European zoos the gorillas are on display when inside. Again the problem is a narrow strip of inside space with a crowd of nosey humans peering through a window! Interestingly Jersey's enclosure is not disimilar. However I don't rule out individual personalities, as it sounds like Jersey's Ya Kwanza was introduced too early to the established harem. It could well be that if Jitu was in a more secluded exhibit then he may feel comfortable with breeding.

I have seen Jitu mating one of the females inside their house. Originally there were very large windows there, but most of the area that was formerly glass has been boarded over, leaving quite small irregularly shaped windows. Only parts of the indoor area can be seen through these, so it is easy for a gorilla to sit inside the house but remain invisible from the public (and therefore unable to see them either).

Alan

 

[tetrapod]

Don't get wrong. I feel it is important for zoos to utilize the facilities they have, rather than spending loads of money better spent elsewhere. Sometimes it is righting a wrong - this may well be the case of the squirrel monkey walk-through (but have the birds received better accomodation, or moved to another institution? I doubt it). This may also be using a space better - as in the case of the gorillas. My point was that Blackpool doesn't show innovation, just renovation (and believe me there is alot that needs renovating). There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that. I still add that with Chester down the road it will make Blackpool's job all that more difficult if all they can do is replace the odd fence and put a coat of paint in the nightquarters.

 

[johnstoni]

Did you work there when they still had quokkas, tree kangaroos, chamois, etc, or was it slightly after they had died out or left? I wondered what you thought about the facilities and whether these species bred well but just couldn't be sustained genetically, or if they didn't breed in sufficient numbers to succeed.

Unless the owners intend to pump huge amounts of cash into blackpool, and so can afford to add mediocre exhibits, I don't really see the point of adding some giraffes with chester down the road.

 

[Pertinax]

This is a similar image to the one I was referring to...

*Taken from Flickr, so credit due to Flickr member 'Vlad The Impaler'*

That's definately Jitu on the island. One or two of ZSL's publicity shots also featured a female in one of the San Diego groups...

 

[Pertinax]

I have seen Jitu mating one of the females inside their house. Originally there were very large windows there, but most of the area that was formerly glass has been boarded over, leaving quite small irregularly shaped windows. Only parts of the indoor area can be seen through these, so it is easy for a gorilla to sit inside the house but remain invisible from the public (and therefore unable to see them either).

Alan

Yes, they have covered over the large ceiling to almost floor level glass fronts that were the originals and there are only smaller windows now.. I'm 100% sure Jitu's failure (six years...) has nothing to do with a lack of privacy- as you said they can get away from the public anyway and there is plenty of daylight time before and after visitors are around- and in my experience Gorillas will mate in view of people anyway.

Bristol's gorillas have far more 'public' indoors area than Blackpool- yet no problems now with breeding there. I'm convinced Jitu is somehow 'dud' though he does mate as you said. The females can't be too blame, all are prime-aged and with good social backgrounds. Maybe he's infertile? I sure wish they would make a change here.

 

[tetrapod]

No, all the quokkas, tree roos and chamois were gone by the time I started. I understand that the quokkas bred well (they certainly do in WA collections - in fact they are used in research). Why they died out - I think foxes got them all. The tree roos just didn't do well (same group that was imported to Twycross). Not sure whether they bred at all. Chamois were almost certainly moved out. If I was making a guess it would be to Auchengarrich, as I know they have chamois (in fact I don't know of any others in UK). So far as the facilities for the quokkas, they are exactly the same paddocks that their current macropod collection are in, which is roughly unchanged from when there were hoofstock like wildebeest. Not sure where the tree roos were kept, possibly in the ill-named and rarely used Noc House (largely used as extra quarantine and holding space these days; don't bother looking for it on a map). Chamois were on the now gorilla island. Understand it was completely denuded and an eyesore, not to mention a bugger to manage (keeper having to row across water). Markhor also spent time on island but are now in the main hoostock paddocks.

Regarding giraffe, I think Blackpool always regretted getting rid of the giraffe. But if you look at the old photos in the gallery of the paddock shared with 2 elephants and white rhinos you will see how little space they had. Where will they put them? There are some decent sized fields that are relatively unused at the back of the zoo (largely forgotten by management and visitors alike), however I wouldn't want to put them on it. It is like quicksand in winter. The ideal area would have been the very large paddock where they stuck dinosaur world or whatever it is called. Now there was a wasted opportunity to do something interesting (given that management obviously spent some money on it) by mixing the reptile collection amongst their prehistoric cousins. Instead they are left stuck in an unheated aeroplane hanger...

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

tetrapod,

What plans exist at Blackpool now for new exhibits, improvements and projects for new animal attractions? Does Blackpool have a masterplan?

Also: How will it face the media attention that burgeoning Chester Zoo is getting deservedly (for its animal conservation emphasis and recent new zoo exhibits)?

 

[Pertinax]

I think one of Blackpool's main problems (apart from a seemingly permanent lack of funding that is) is the nature of the town its located in. Blackpool is still a holiday destination but most people who go there do so for the 'Golden Mile' while the Zoo is rather tucked away in the background in Stanley Park. It isn't a No 1 attraction in its own right unlike the high-profile and famous Chester Zoo which, as pointed out, is not that far away and very easily reached by main roads. So whatever they do, Blackpool Zoo will always be rather in Chester's shadow.

 

[johnstoni]

Not sure where the tree roos were kept, possibly in the ill-named and rarely used Noc House (largely used as extra quarantine and holding space these days; don't bother looking for it on a map). Chamois were on the now gorilla island. Markhor also spent time on island but are now in the main hoostock paddocks.

Regarding giraffe, I think Blackpool always regretted getting rid of the giraffe. But if you look at the old photos in the gallery of the paddock shared with 2 elephants and white rhinos you will see how little space they had. Where will they put them? There are some decent sized fields that are relatively unused at the back of the zoo (largely forgotten by management and visitors alike), however I wouldn't want to put them on it. It is like quicksand in winter. The ideal area would have been the very large paddock where they stuck dinosaur world or whatever it is called. Now there was a wasted opportunity to do something interesting (given that management obviously spent some money on it) by mixing the reptile collection amongst their prehistoric cousins. Instead they are left stuck in an unheated aeroplane hanger...

Yes, when I saw the collection it was in the early nineties, and the chamois had been moved off the island to the paddocks, but the markhor were still occupying it. The tree kangaroos, north american porcupines and (possibly) spotted cuscus were in the building you describe. I think the indoor 'nocturnal' area was quite small and the porcupines actually had an outside cage as part of this complex.

The former giraffe enclosure was indeed abysmal. They were still rotating with the white rhinos when I went, and the elephants still only had the small moated strip next to this, from what I can see that whole area became the elephant sand paddock later. The one thing about that blackpool had going for its elephants then was a generous indoor space, which is obviously now even bigger. It's frustrating that they kept the reptiles there, when there is sufficient room for a vast indoor sand enclosure, which you would think would make blackpool an excellent choice for housing older female elephants.

Could it be that the owners of late have just recognised the limitations of a collection so close to chester/knowsley and focused on visitor-related infrastructure rather than improving the collection? I guess if dino parks and creche's and new shops/ cafes are what people want....then that sets them up to have more freedom to move the animal collection in whatever direction they wish.

I actually wish they'd give up on the orangs, refurbish the house and two grass ape paddocks, and build a larger gorilla group up.