Blackpool Zoo Blackpool Zoo, UK
- Thread starter Paul Scott
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That is exactly what I am saying!
1. The Yemen Gazella gazella have not been fully studied. Wild gazelles still occur towards the border regions with Saudi in north-western Yemen (these are purportedly Gazella gazella erlangeri).
The more inland populations and those in the Hadramawt and Al Bayda mountains, Lahej or Ayban are different again. I personally suspect the Hadramawti are more towards the Gazella gazella cora grouping and the Lahej/Ayban have definitely more erlangeri leanings. Yet both populations remain unstudied to date. Re gazelles in the Mahra that is even totally diffuse.
Since you asked ... I will take up the matter and get back to you ... but it may welll take some more time, perhaps even months to resolve!
2. The continental Gazella gazella were also imported from Yemen (Planckendael). I have photographs of these and again these show up erlangeri leanings.
3. The dorcas gazelle Gazella dorcas male - if this taxon was in fact imported by Chester at all (how on earth could they ever mistake a Gazella dorcas for their Gazella gazella just beats me .. I can distinguish between both taxa a mile off!) - would not have done much, as male mountain gazelle Gazella gazella dominate Gazella dorcas.
Jana,
Dvur are unsurpassed in their handling and transport experience of large African hoofstock. I wish more zoos within the EAZA region would recognize that.
Come to think of it, there is a nice little conference in Dvur in early May. Are you going by any chance (it is Dvur's answer to Port Lympne in situ and reintroduction activities)!
Would love to attend myself as I personally feel that managing an EEP species to surplus and than opt for contraceptive or worse sterilisation or breeding stops does not make for an adequate answer. Only when trying to have the surplus prop up/support in situ populations AND the WAZA strategy towards meta population management that it becomes meaningful for species conservation. But, but ... perhaps I am thinking just 30 years ahead off any EEP????
Sorry, it was a Goitred gazelle (G.s.marica) that was mixed with the others, not a dorcas. He was eventually killed by a male Arabian(?) Gazelle.
The origin of the animals at Chester which formed the breeding herd is
Baharan area in the lower part of Haduapul in the north east of Yemen.
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Looking at the Times Atlas of the World I can not place that particular location on the map. I suppose it is the northern Shabwa-Hadramawt area (since you are talking north-east). This is in line with the political landscape at the time when the UK was heavily involved with South Yemen, and I already placed the UK Gazella gazella source area in this particular part of Yemen.
Anyway, do you have more particular assignment of the Baharan, lower Haduapul area? Perhaps even in degrees N/E?
2. With Arabian goitred gazelle Gazella subgutturosa marica (who are currently are placed more closely with African Gazelle leptoceros!!!) there is a similar supplanting behavior when together with mountain gazelle Gazella gazella. It seems fair to be expected taht this particular marica male was killed by a male mountain gazelle!
3. Alas, the UK population is now virtually defunct save for Blackpool and a lone pair at Overloon Zoo (soon to go to Best Zoo). A shame considering they had a unique part of the Arabian gazelle gene pool at close hand for scientific study! As per gazelles, I do not consider grass paddocks appropriate, they need hard standing all around ..... (viz the Marwell policy, allthough I wish they would then make over the entire exhibit areas hard standing).
POST SCRIPT: Please do not use the name Gazella arabica any more. I dunno why they continued using that taxon name - even on ISIS - when it is no longer even recognized as valid (it is now termed inconclusive)?
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
There are no more 'arabian' gazelle at Marwell to my knowledge. Their Dorcas gazelle are actually one of the few species to enjoy year-round access to the full enclosure.....the aridlands exhibit is a hard surface. Their dorcas group seems to have ceased breeding for the time being, and are down to 15 animals. Strange as their 2006 inventory shows a small group leaving the collection. Perhaps the original herd bred well but the offspring weren't kept to replace adults that died naturally? Marwell's dama's, in contrast, used to have a small hardstand where the anoa now are, but in the new giraffe house, run with the giraffe and dwarf buffalo on grass in summer, and seem to still be doing well.
Johnstoni,
1. I never implied that Arabian gazelle Gazella gazella had been at Marwell recently. The UK Gazella gazella population was Chester (the main and original group), Dudley, Blackpool and London. The continental group was maintained at Planckendael.
2. The Sahrawi dorcas Gazella dorcas neglecta at Marwell originated from Almeria and when imported was 2.6 or 2.7 in formation. Breeding in gazelles is fairly straightforward, so the group quickly increased to saturation point. Last year a group of Marwell/Almeria dorcas was sent back to Senegal for reintroduction in the North Ferlo NP (where scimitars and mhorrs have also been taken). I suspect that breeding will resume this year once more (more dorcas will be needed for the Sahara Conservation Fund programmes in North Africa).
3. Regarding gazelles: I see a constant issue with parasite infestations on grassy paddocks (remember we are talking arid steppe and semi-desertic species here, so lava/rocky desertic habitat is preferred .....).
Jelle, I'll bow to your obvious superior knowledge on this subject! I knew that gazelle taxonomy was a bit of a mess... Unfortunately the Blackpool group was the only Gazella that I have ever worked with, so I would never admit to knowing enough about them. Beautiful animals that they are, ultimately I don't think that Gazella are well suited to the UK/Northern European climate.
Not surprised that ISIS follow an invalid taxon. They are quite slow to sort out the changes that regularly crop up.
A propos,
If Blackpool Zoo feels the danger of being outcompeted by Chester & other attractions nearby, they should have a little chat with Dutch zoos in Rhenen and Amersfoort. Both are in smallish towns very close to much bigger Artis, Rotterdam and several others. Both are doing fine, although developed quite interesting strategy.
In Rhenen, the answer included building 6 or 7 children playgrounds all over.
@jelle
Anybody did all-purpose molecular tree of gazelles? Very interesting group, with lots of forms which are both of uncertain status and potentially threatened.
BTW, zoos don't realize that for many other animals they have problem with unknown/wrong origin and unknown taxonomy.
If Blackpool Zoo feels the danger of being outcompeted by Chester & other attractions nearby, they should have a little chat with Dutch zoos in Rhenen and Amersfoort. Both are in smallish towns very close to much bigger Artis, Rotterdam and several others. Both are doing fine, although developed quite interesting strategy.
In Rhenen, the answer included building 6 or 7 children playgrounds all over.
@jelle
Anybody did all-purpose molecular tree of gazelles? Very interesting group, with lots of forms which are both of uncertain status and potentially threatened.
BTW, zoos don't realize that for many other animals they have problem with unknown/wrong origin and unknown taxonomy.
Will these be a line unrelated to the others in UK at Marwell & Paignton? I believe Blackpool have had them before- at least for a short while. What happened to those?
What's the score with Hartmann's at Paignton nowadays? One of my last visits there was a new foal.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Hartmann's at Paignton
They have 1.1 at present. The foal was accidentally (?) kicked by the stallion and died and an elderly female died a while ago. The lone lowland anoa is currently occupying part of the zebra house and when it moves to the ex-bison house they'll have plenty of room for the newcomers. It'll be good to see more of them out on the hill.
They have 1.1 at present. The foal was accidentally (?) kicked by the stallion and died and an elderly female died a while ago. The lone lowland anoa is currently occupying part of the zebra house and when it moves to the ex-bison house they'll have plenty of room for the newcomers. It'll be good to see more of them out on the hill.
Thankfully, the EAZA now has an EEP for a pure-bred dorcas gazelle taxon (for which a studbook has been kept since its inception at Almeria). Being able to trace the origins of your breeding stock and attempting to breed from a known specific subspecies or a defined ecologically separated unit (another term for subspeciation in the making where physical barriers like rivers, mountain ranges are separating populations of different (sub-)species) is obviously fundamental for initiating and maintaining biologically representative and genetically/morphologically/taxonomically meaningful wildlife and plant collections in zoos.
Everyone will have noticed that I am adverse to these zoo manufactured taxa, f.i. the mixed hybrid lions, white tigers, that do not occur in the wild or within enclosed protected areas in their range states. In the age where IUCN, WWF and the affiliated wildlife biology community are the prime movers of advances in wildlife biology and species conservation, by way of their reviews of species status in the wild we need to follow their scientific guidelines and advice on captive-breeding, species designation, Red List designation, reintroduction and zoo welfare and transport (the latter is also governed by international IATA guidelines) to base our zoo animal breeding programmes on. Software tools like Vortex, Global Captive Action Plans define our collection and masterplanning and ultimately how many ecologically meaningful (sub-)species we can maintain in captivity for conservation breeding.
Anyway, do you have more particular assignment of the Baharan, lower Haduapul area? Perhaps even in degrees N/E?
?
No sorry, all I have is this map of the area in which they were captured. Like you Jelle, I cannot trace any of the locations.
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
Jelle,
you are very knowledgeable and certainly didn't imply that Marwell was a recent holder....for members who may not know Marwell so well I was explaining things a little....
Are you sure that was the only group of Sahawari Dorcas imported by Marwell? I need to look it up but I'm sure I read in IZN at the time that they had recieved around 20 animals, possibly not all at the same time, or from different locations? Correct me if I'm wrong tho, my memory isn't what it used to be
The Aridlands paddock - this is why it is so good...they appear to have dug down to the chalk and then sanded the paddock, so it's drier even that soil that has just been covered in a sandy substrate, and the exhibit itself looks fantastic. I hope they will do more of this with other suitable species.
Paulkarli08
Well-Known Member
Are there plans to acquire a new male lion for Blackpool due to their old male dying in January, i presume from the fact of being over sexed due to 3 younger females introduced?! Do you think Blackpool will take part in breeding from the lionesses? Knowsley and Longleat Safari Parks must have males coming up, and possibly Africa Alive?
Also, how old is the tiger at Blackpool, are there plans to acquire a new mate for him or do you think he will just stay solitary till he dies?
Also, how old is the tiger at Blackpool, are there plans to acquire a new mate for him or do you think he will just stay solitary till he dies?
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