BONOBOS, TOO RUDE FOR ZOOS.

[mazfc]

Doesn't she mention this in her? She certainly wasn't letting anyone else have them then.

As to why no one has them now, it would cost a fortune to build a suitable enclosure for them, and as much as I know I would travel to them, would they have the same draw to non primate fans?

 

[Animal Friendly]

Doesn't she mention this in her? She certainly wasn't letting anyone else have them then.

As to why no one has them now, it would cost a fortune to build a suitable enclosure for them, and as much as I know I would travel to them, would they have the same draw to non primate fans?

Doesn't she mention in her what?, your post is unclear Maz, no criticism intented. Who built many great ape houses at a great expense for gorilla, orangs, chimpanzees and indeed bonobos when at times finances were limited when other zoos did nothing?

 

[garyjp]

I am surprised there is not another collection somewhere actually London would be a good place

 

[gentle lemur]

In my experience of watching the Twycross bonobos, their sexual encounters are frequent but often so casual that I think many visitors do not really appreciate what they are seeing: perhaps only the more prolonged and vigorous encounters between the adult females (known, I believe, as G-G rubbing) frequently excite a comment or a raised eyebrow.
Perhaps Noah's Ark would not entertain the idea of exhibiting bonobos; but if the animals were available and suitable funds for a first class exhibit could be found, I am sure many other zoos in the UK would be only too pleased to keep them. On the other hand I think that bonobos are very demanding as they are particularly nervous and excitable animals and I feel that only zoos with staff who have considerable experience with chimps would be really suitable.

Alan

 

[zooboy28]

I think any zoo that would not display bonobos solely because they have frequent sex should not exist. Zoos should promote natural behaviours as much as possible, and educate people about them. Certainly active animals (no matter what they are doing) attract bigger crowds and hold people's attention for longer, therefore giving a greater opportunity for visitors to appreciate and learn about them. There was a discussion about whether bonobos were not being displayed in US zoos because of this, but I can't find it now.

 

[IanRRobinson]

I have a terrible feeling that there MAY be some zoo managers who would consider the cost of displaying the species is excessive for apes that they would perceive as basically being Chimps.

I would dearly love London to keep Bonobo - not least because the zoo has never kept them. Putting that to one side, how the hell are Twycross putting an armlock on the EEP co-ordinator, if that is indeed what has occurred.

 

[OrangePerson]

Well since Yorkshire Wildlife Park have apes in their collection plan and don't have any yet they would be ideal to get bonobos I'm not keen on them myself, prefer chimps, but maybe if I saw them in a great enclosure and nearby so I could get to know them, I'd grow to love them.

 

[Pertinax]

Putting that to one side, how the hell are Twycross putting an armlock on the EEP co-ordinator, if that is indeed what has occurred.

I think that was in the past, not now. As I mentioned previously there are big freely-breeding groups in several European and USA zoos nowadays. Zootierlist lists nine other holders in Europe, and Stuttgart alone have 15 individuals in their group(s). (Some of Twycross' Bonobos have been incorporated into other European groups too, on an exchange basis.) So I'm sure animals could be sourced for a potential new holder in the UK. You only need something like 2.2 to found a new group.

 

[Pertinax]

In my experience of watching the Twycross bonobos, their sexual encounters are frequent but often so casual that I think many visitors do not really appreciate what they are seeing:

n the other hand I think that bonobos are very demanding as they are particularly nervous and excitable animals and I feel that only zoos with staff who have considerable experience with chimps would be really suitable.

Exactly my experience Bonobo watching at Twycross also. These 'matings' are often 'pseudo' anyway and so quick you can easily miss it.

Agree with your second part too, though taking on an experienced Ape-keeper is another alternative for a (quality) Zoo that has not kept Apes before. I find Bonobos very interesting (the most interesting species for me at Twycross certainly) and would like to see at least one more group established somewhere in the UK.

 

[Pertinax]

Well since Yorkshire Wildlife Park have apes in their collection plan and don't have any yet they would be ideal to get bonobos

Apart from Chester or London, they would be another choice for me too, though they don't have any Ape-keeping experience, at least not on site,(but you can bring experienced staff in) but they obviously build the sort of high quality housing they would require.

 

[Pertinax]

Doesn't she mention in her what?

At a guess- book?

 

[mazfc]

At a guess- book?

It was indeed

Animalfriendly I'm a huge fan of twycross, I try and visit 2 or 3 times a month, and have been a member for ages. You won't have seen me comment that often on Twycross threads anymore because I can't be bothered with the hassle

I am pretty sure that Molly did say in her book that she was determined no one else get them. I think it's rather a shame no one else does, but the investment is huge.

Am I right in thinking that they are much more widely held in Europe? Does anyone know if there are more holders in Europe with chimps or bonobos?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Am I right in thinking that they are much more widely held in Europe? Does anyone know if there are more holders in Europe with chimps or bonobos?

There are a total of ten European collections with Pan paniscus: Zoo Berlin, Frankfurt, Köln, Leipzig, Stuttgart, Wuppertal, Dierenpark Planckendael, La Vallée des Singes, Apenheul and Twycross.

Conversely, 131 European collections hold non-subspecific Pan troglodytes, with 13 collections holding Pan troglodytes troglodytes and 35 collections holding Pan troglodytes verus - though obviously some, if not all, of the collections holding pure ssp also hold non-subspecific animals.

As such, although bonobo are a bit more commonplace on the continent they are still overwhelmingly outnumbered by chimpanzees.

 

[Panthera1981]

Absolutely right.
Another stupid press story.

Agree.

This all smacks of political correctness gone mad, and looks like another programme to add to the list of dumbed-down "documentaries" the BBC seem to be pursuing lately.

IMO, it's probably (hopefully) only a matter of time before we see more bonobo in the UK. I cant imagine just one collection holding them being healthy in the long term for the species or the breeding program!

 

[lintworm]

Agree.

I cant imagine just one collection holding them being healthy in the long term for the species or the breeding program!

The breeding program is larger than the UK.....

But the European bonobo population has been increasing slowly but steady over the past years, so I would be surprised if there won't be coming new holders in the next few years...

 

[Pertinax]

The breeding program is larger than the UK.....

But the European bonobo population has been increasing slowly but steady over the past years, so I would be surprised if there won't be coming new holders in the next few years...

The Twycross Bonobos are definately part of the EEP programme too, there have been several moves both in and out of their group(s). And as the EEP Bonobos are managed co-operatively as one population- regardless of geographical location, its possible it may eventually become on a par with Indian Rhino, where new holders are now actually being requested to take the surplus.