Borneo mammals i saw....

you should be able to manage that, all depending on how long you have got. how long are you going for? we never made it to danum valley as we ran out of time (this upset me a great deal and i'm still not over it).

if things get pushed for time, i would most certainly skip sepilok and the proboscis monkey sanctuary (which i didn't go to) in favour of a few days on the kinabatangan.
we called sepilok the "monkey farm" as essentially, thats what it feels like. the thrill is no different from any you would get at the zoo and is nothing on actually seeing truly wild apes down on the river. whilst its not a definate that you will see orangutans there, you are pretty much guaranteed on seeing lots and lots of proboscis monkeys down there and hornbills and if you look long and hard and do plenty of walks by yourself (or in small groups) you should find orangutans.

and like i said, you'd have to be blind to miss the hornbills.

the zoo is called "lan kawi" or something like that and is the only zoo in kota kinabalu. just say you want to go to "the zoo" and that'll be the place they take you.

its nothing special, in fact it suffers from overcrowding, however it is brand new so the enclosures are of a standard no different from western zoos. not the newer a-grade exhibits in western zoos, but the typical standards we are so used to seeing.
they house, from memory...

asian elephant
sumatran rhino
orangutan
bornean gibbon
proboscis monkey
slow loris
prevost's squirrel
clouded leopard
malayan tigers
civets (2 species)
sun bears
smooth otters
many larger deer
banteng
as well as lots of native and exotic birds and a small reptile collection (mostly snakes)

really only worth visiting to see the rhino.
 
Jonathan, you should start a thread on your trip and everyone who's been to the region can give you pre-trip advice!

In Singapore, you'll definitely need AT LEAST two full days at Jurong Bird Park, and even then your parents probably won't be able to drag you away. Then as you say, the zoo and night zoo. In my opinion Sentosa Island would just be a waste of your valuable time unless you plan on going to the Aquarium there. Also avoid the reptile park next to the bird park, disgusting place from all accounts (I haven't been there myself). The Raffles' Museum of Biodiversity, at the University is well worth a visit (and its free). There's a place called the "Live Turtle and Tortoise Museum" on 27 Neil Road, which I still haven't found time to visit yet, but it apparently has a large collection, including a two-headed softshell turtle.

For wildlife in Singapore, you could visit Sungei Buloh (a wetland reserve), Bukit Timah (last primary forest left on the island; lots of tree shrews and slender squirrels), the Botanic Gardens (plantain squirrels everywhere, and all the common Singapore birds), and Pulau Ubin off the east coast (pied hornbills, Asian wild pigs, red junglefowl, etc etc). At Changi Village which you go to to get to Pulau Ubin, there are flocks of wild Goffin's cockatoos and moustached parrots.

Most important thing to remember is to pace yourself, it will take a while to get used to the climate (especially coming from England) so don't try to fit too much into the first few days.
 
"wild" goffin's cockatoos in singapore?

should that be "feral"? i was under the impression cockatoo distribution stopped well short of the greater sundas.

personally i wouldn't bother visiting wildlife reserves in singapore, since you only wasting valuable time you might have in borneo. you will see most of the same species plus a whole lot more over there.

i struggled to do a day at the birdpark, but i'm sure dear mr hornbill could stretch it fifty years or so! ;)
 
Its a wild introduced population of Goffin's cockatoos, as are the moustached parrots. Btw, "feral" refers only to domestic animals gone wild, not to introduced populations of wild animals, although it is very commonly mis-used.
 
true, true. that is the correct terminology of feral. your correct in that "wild" is accurate, regardless of wether they are native or introduced.

my error.
 
you are probably right in that visiting wildlife reserves in Singapore would be taking away from Borneo time, especially since Jon's time there will no doubt be entirely occupied by captive wildlife, but the options are there. And if he's interested in waders and such, then I doubt there's anywhere in Borneo with the facilities of Sungei Buloh.
 
Jurong Bird Park

In Singapore, you'll definitely need AT LEAST two full days at Jurong Bird Park, and even then your parents probably won't be able to drag you away.

Being the budding ornithologist that Hornybill is , I reckon two weeks would be more accurate for time at Jurong Bird Park !!
Seriously though , it is almost Bird Heaven

I agree wholeheartedly about the advice to pace yourself , and always drink plenty -- the heat and humidity just doesnt let up over in that part of the world
 
I think we have waited long enough Patrick, post your bloody Borneo Photos.
 
patrick said:
we never made it to danum valley as we ran out of time (this upset me a great deal and i'm still not over it).

we called sepilok the "monkey farm" as essentially, thats what it feels like. the thrill is no different from any you would get at the zoo and is nothing on actually seeing truly wild apes down on the river. If you look long and hard and do plenty of walks by yourself (or in small groups) you should find orangutans.

The zoo is brand new so the enclosures are of a standard no different from western zoos. not the newer a-grade exhibits in western zoos, but the typical standards we are so used to seeing. really only worth visiting to see the rhino.
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1. Was the Danum Valley where the wild rhino wallow was supposed to be? Its a great shame you didn't make it in that case....I would have been mad too..

2. Yes, it always amuses me when I hear of people visiting Sepilok and other orangutan sanctuaries to see 'wild orangutans' when the Orangs are mostly clambering around on the ground or climbing up people's legs, waiting for their next handout. Only one stage up from the zoo experience. Could the wild orangs you saw have been emigrants from Sepilok or was too far away?

3. I guess there are no plans in Borneo to try and resurrect Sumatran rhino captive breeding (unless more rhinos come into captivity) and that female will end her days in the zoo? I believe Sepilok originally claimed some sort of success with another rhino female(Lunpari?) who gave birth unsuccessfully but that's all history now - I read it somewhere on the IRF site about the Sepilok rhinos.
 
1) apparently. though most bornean rhinos are known to be at tabin reserve. in truth the chance of seeing a wild rhino is so slim, you could be out there for years and years and see nothing at all. its something i'de like to try, but not something really worth sacrificing other wildlife experiences for if your pushed for time.

2)nah, the kinabatangan river and sepilok have hundreds of km's of palm oil plantations between them. the animals i saw on the river were truly wild.

3) don't think so, the focus will now be on preserving and studying wild populations. at this stage, translocation for consolidation of fragmented populations is something i would advocate, but not bringing animals into captivity again. lets see if the east and west can worth together for some positive results in way kambas first......
 
patrick said:
1) in truth the chance of seeing a wild rhino is so slim, you could be out there for years and years and see nothing at all.......
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Even the researchers never seem to see them either- only tracks, droppings or feeding sign. Its rather like looking for a needle in a haystack.
 
I wouldent call Sepilok a "monkey farm", and I dont think that people visiting this place becuase they wants to see "wild orangutangs", neither I have I ever seen any primates climbing on the visitors, apart from the feeding session most seems to stick to the forest and I have only seen one orang utang on the walkway itself. They have done much to promote the illegal trade with organgutangs on Borneo as well as confiscating a large number of orang utangs.


The orang utang along the Kinabatang river may be wild but its still largely thanks to places such as Sepilok that the population has been able to survive, they have released a large number primates in the small tracts or remaning forest along the Kinabatang Rivwer and without reintroductions such as there there would not be many left in this area, they have done much else for primates in this area such as building bridges over waterways.
 
Orangutan rehab centres.

sebbe67 said:
neither I have I ever seen any primates climbing on the visitors, apart from the feeding session most seems to stick to the forest and I have only seen one orang utang on the walkway itself. They have done much to promote the illegal trade with organgutangs on Borneo as well as confiscating a large number of orang utangs.
Click to expand...

I've certainly seen film footage in the past of Orangutans at Sepilok- or possible another rehab centre - interacting with visitors and moving about on the ground. Also film of an adult(padded) male at one rehab centre grappling with a female visitor.

I'm certainly not denying the good work they do. :)
 
sebbe67 said:
I wouldent call Sepilok a "monkey farm".....
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well orangutans are not technically monkeys, nor does the place actually breed them specifically so the place doesn't actually constitute a farm either, but ya know, thats how it felt for us.

sebbe, you seem to be implying that i'm anti-sepilok? that i don't appreciate the conservation benefits of the place. thats a pretty big jump to conclusions there pal.

actually, what i was saying, (which everyone else seemed to understand) was that the sepilok experience is nothing like seeing the animals in the wild. sepilok is in the same realm as seeing the apes at the zoo as far as i was concerned.


i will pick you back on a couple of points however:

- orangutans certainly do go onto the boardwalk, though i never actually said they did. instead i was talking about the monkeys (thats long-tailed and pig-tailed macaques) which run all over the boardwalk and terrorise the visitors attempting to steal their belongings. its a shame the center is so indifferent to the fact that they end up handing out more food to the wild monkeys than they do to the orangs.

- people definitely go to sepilok to see "wild" orangutans, and leave satisfied, having no idea what they have missed out on. that was confirmed in my mind after speaking to countless tourists who had come to borneo to see orangs but confined their orang experience to a visit to sepilok.

i wholeheartedly appreciate the good things sepilok does. but don't tell me i should have to appreciate the experience of visiting the center more than that of seeing the apes in the wild.
 
I'll be going to sepilok for the orang-utans, but I wouldn't class them as wild. I hope to see some wild in individuals, but I know that this may not be possible..
 
patrick said:
well orangutans are not technically monkeys, nor does the place actually breed them specifically so the place doesn't actually constitute a farm either, but ya know, thats how it felt for us.

sebbe, you seem to be implying that i'm anti-sepilok? that i don't appreciate the conservation benefits of the place. thats a pretty big jump to conclusions there pal.

actually, what i was saying, (which everyone else seemed to understand) was that the sepilok experience is nothing like seeing the animals in the wild. sepilok is in the same realm as seeing the apes at the zoo as far as i was concerned.


i will pick you back on a couple of points however:

- orangutans certainly do go onto the boardwalk, though i never actually said they did. instead i was talking about the monkeys (thats long-tailed and pig-tailed macaques) which run all over the boardwalk and terrorise the visitors attempting to steal their belongings. its a shame the center is so indifferent to the fact that they end up handing out more food to the wild monkeys than they do to the orangs.

- people definitely go to sepilok to see "wild" orangutans, and leave satisfied, having no idea what they have missed out on. that was confirmed in my mind after speaking to countless tourists who had come to borneo to see orangs but confined their orang experience to a visit to sepilok.

i wholeheartedly appreciate the good things sepilok does. but don't tell me i should have to appreciate the experience of visiting the center more than that of seeing the apes in the wild.
Click to expand...


I mostly reacted in the way I did becuase you reffered to Sepilok as being a "monkey farm" and from what I read and got the impressions that Sepilok is a negative place. And without mention some very good things they do.

I have never said that you were "anti-sepilok" simply wrote about my own impressions and experiances with the place and that I couldent relate to what you wrote about Sepilok.

I have not visited Sepilok for a few years now and cant I say I know anything about the problems that the macaques are causing as I have never seen that myself, the only primate I have seen on the boardwalk is a organg utang. But if the macaques are causing problems and I agree that this is a big problem, and something that needs to be solved. I have experianced this in Brunei myself were people feeds macaques at mosques and were there is a very similar problem, being "attacked" by macaques around several mosques completely spoiled my visit.

The macaques steals alot of the food meant for the orang utangs and unless they do anything about this then problem will only get worse.

Many tourists probably go to Sepilok to see organg utangs as they dont have the time or enough interest to go out and see them in the wild. I have never said that you should appreciate your orang utang encounters in Sepilok more than we you saw them in the wild.
 
Nigels views of Sepilok

for what its worth ..... ( 5 cents ? Ha ha :) )

I had limited time and money when I was in Sabah about 17 years ago .
The roads were atrocious ( you couldnt really call them roads )
One needed to charter a 4 wheel drive and driver to get to Danum Valley and Kinabatang was pretty much inaccessable by road .......

so Sepilok was the next best thing .
Most people that went there that day were only interested in seeing the orang utans during the "feeding " session . As soon as that finished , the people left . I then had the place pretty much to myself , so I was able to talk with some of the rangers .

I spent the whole day there . There were some tracks through the vegetation
( I have no idea whether it was really virgin jungle , but it looked like it to me )
and I saw some macaques and other monkeys . I also come across a very slender 6 ft snake that was camouflaged like a vine .
I heard a lot more than I saw .

If you can get to where Patrick went , that is great . ( mate , I envy you !! )
But Sepilok is the next best thing if you go there knowing that it is a sanctuary where they try to rehabilitate the orangs to live in the wild
It is no farm ( though it might seem like that to people who are lucky enough to go to the places that Patrick has been to )
The food for the orangs consist of milk and bananas . Nothing else . This gets boring pretty quick for the orangs , so the smarter ones use the feeding time as supplementary to their regular diets , which they find for themselves .

The orangs certainly clamber all over the boardwalk , and anywhere else they choose to go to . There was about a dozen of them on the day that I visited , and they came quite close to the public -- but ignored them .
 
hey everyone...

before anyone else gets even slightly defensive on sepilok's behalf, remember i was talking about sepilok vs kinabatangan in regards to "experiencing" orangutans.

in that case there is simply no competition. the wild, most certainly makes sepilok feel like a "monkey farm".

i'm talking a hundred or more tourists standing around watching a guy feed about five orangutans bananas and sugercane on a platform whilst a million macaques fight and squabble over the lions share. once they are finshed they hit the crowd.

if you are a wildlife junkie, its crap.

now, nonetheless i recommend anyone going to sabah still go to sepilok, just not for so much for the ranga's. the forest there is a good 60+ years older than that of the kinabatangan and it shows - its much prettier.

i also saw badgers, giant flying squirrels and civets at sepilok, animals that evaded me on the river. i had a great time there, it finished an otherwise exhausting trip nicely.

go to sepilok, support it, do a night walk through the forest and do some spotlighting - just don't (if possible) make it your one and only "orangutan thing", because in regards to them, its rather like a zoo.
 
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