Kiang, btw, I presume you meant the OTHER John as sadly Mr Aspinall has been gone for a few years now.
What a terrible mistake to make, i do apologise, thanks for pointing that out Gary
Marwell Wildlife Bring back....?
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
What a terrible mistake to make, i do apologise, thanks for pointing that out Gary
You have. Miranda Stevenson was brought in as Marwell's new director for a short while but again there were differences of opinion and she left.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Only in passing, and noting is said about her departure. Likewise Mark Edgerly (sp?).
I'm sure John Knowles was a cantankerous old so-and-so, and taking over from him must have been very hard. But he did found the place, and did build it into a superb zoo (at one time). That the current management cannot accommodate him is just extraordinary, really. And my sympathy for him is increased by the fact that the zoo has just gone down hill so markedly in recent years. I just don't think it's a very nice place to visit now. Too much empty space. Too many uncared-for corners. And too many new developments which have been poor or unfinished or ill-concieved. The Australian thing is mentioned above. How poor is that walk-through? And the golden-lion tamarin thing next door? And the African field may develop into something worthwhile, but at the moment it's just a bloody enormous field with a few distant antelope wandering around it. Where's the imagination in that? New cafe is nice enough, but tiny. The zoo wasn't perfect in the Knowles era - far from it - but it's heart was in the right place, and it was constantly improving. Now? I don't think the same is true. And while I appreciate what is said above about finance, and the recession, visitor numbers have been high at the zoo in recent years, money should be there. How much was spent on the rebranding?
Also agree with the comment above about the penguins being the beginning of the decline (although this was in the Knowles era, of course). The penguin enclosure itself is pretty good, but it looks a little awkward tucked in the corner of a big field - and it's just not Marwell. The Marwell 'brand' should be of big cats and ungulates. Other stuff, too, of course, but this has always been their core stock. Too often when they have done other things it has been half-hearted: the aviaries near the back lawn, the dreadful Encounter Village area, the amphibian thing, the owl aviaries...
So, before this rant goes any further, and in answer to the question posed, the animal I would bring back would be John Knowles or, at least, someone with a real vision for what the park is and could be.
What interests me about all this is that it is the only example of its kind I can think of, at least in the UK- where the founder of a large privately-owned Zoo/Animal collection has lost control of it in this way. I don't really understand how it happened.
We have so many Marwell regulars on here, it is quite shocking to read the last few posts, giving a very different picture to the one we are generally offered on here.
Is Marwell really losing the place, i for one sincerely hope not, i do hope out and out commercialism will not win against the founding principal of what is still (in my opinion), one of the UK's finest collections.
Is Marwell really losing the place, i for one sincerely hope not, i do hope out and out commercialism will not win against the founding principal of what is still (in my opinion), one of the UK's finest collections.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
I think someone has already mentioned Jersey, where there was a coup against Durrell in the early 70s - but it failed!
It might be said that some places needed the influence of the founder to be removed - and maybe Marwell was one of those. Clearly Knowles is a beast of a different era. And one might look at Twycross as another example of a place where the founder possibly hung on for too long. But in a circumstance such as this, it behoves the new regime to continue to treat the founder sympathetically.
As for Marwell itself, the rant above is simply my own opinion. I'm sure there would be others who would disagree, and who would see it as an improving zoo. I'm also well aware that it may be the case that there were structural and systemic issues which needed to be addressed. If one looks at Chester as a comparison, I think it would be fair to say that its recent success has come about to a large extent because of the modernisation which was implemented by Michael Bramble when he took over from George Mottershead - and I'm sure that at the time there would have been those who decried what he did, especially as there wasn't an enormous amount to see for what was going on.
Last time I was there, I looked at the statues and arts installations and thought "Why don't they sell that and buy a....(insert animal here)?
And why doesn't the PR department update the highly negative and damaging Wiki entry that concentrates on animal deaths-presumably written by a Born Free supporter!
And why doesn't the PR department update the highly negative and damaging Wiki entry that concentrates on animal deaths-presumably written by a Born Free supporter!
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I couldn't agree more!!!!!
Gary, your comment got me thinking to a garden they are opening in the summer. It's a huge space, so why waste all that precious money on a bloody flower arrangement! It infuriates me!
The African Valley is planned to develop it's stock over time, and lion and nile hippo are (were?) planned for enclosures within, and the new cheetah exhibit will probably include a view over the valley. But while nothing can be perfect, I hope that if Mr Knowles does make a return visit he can teach Mr Cretney some things on how the park is being run; it does feel very much like a zoo 'in flux' as the Doctor would put it. I think that a lot has come from trying to keep up with the rest of the big players in the UK. Surely the announcement of Chester's Heart of Africa would've added pressure to other zoos.
The African Valley is planned to develop it's stock over time, and lion and nile hippo are (were?) planned for enclosures within, and the new cheetah exhibit will probably include a view over the valley. But while nothing can be perfect, I hope that if Mr Knowles does make a return visit he can teach Mr Cretney some things on how the park is being run; it does feel very much like a zoo 'in flux' as the Doctor would put it. I think that a lot has come from trying to keep up with the rest of the big players in the UK. Surely the announcement of Chester's Heart of Africa would've added pressure to other zoos.
Affirmative. Marwell Zoo would be excellent space to house both.
The last sojourn of blacks was not that successful, cannot figure out why.
As to the whites: there breeding at Marwell is sadly in almost singletons from 2 cows .... I guess the lack the herd structure for now???
As regard to black rhinos, Kes the male died six years after his arrival to oedema, something caused through a difficulty with Vitamin E, and his mate Katie died only three weeks later from a heart defect.
Yeah, they've had the same 1:2 trio of Hannu, Sula and Kiri for many years now, and yep, it was only Sula that had calves: Bhasela in 1999 and Shaka in 2003. It would be good to get the rhinos up into the wider space of the valley and create a good herd structure there IMO.
Yeah, they've had the same 1:2 trio of Hannu, Sula and Kiri for many years now, and yep, it was only Sula that had calves: Bhasela in 1999 and Shaka in 2003. It would be good to get the rhinos up into the wider space of the valley and create a good herd structure there IMO.
What they need is a good 'shake up' to promote breeding again.
A move into the big Valley enclosure and perhaps bring in say, 1.1. additional animals or exchange one or two, and I'm sure there would be calves again.
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MarwellGirl09
Well-Known Member
I can't say that in the 12 years that I've been visiting Marwell that it's "Gone downhill". The enclosures are being slowly upgraded (I'm sorry, I much prefer the sculptured newer habitat's than the old style cages - yes I have heard that people prefer the cages). I love Marwell, it was the first place I got close to so many animals. I like the Penguins, it's got one of the best underwater viewings that I've seen. Personally, I'd like to see Lions back. I remember them very very vaguely (possibly from before 1998 - not entirely sure).
African Valley is still a work in progress I believe and there are many changes happening. I will stand up for Marwell til I'm blue in the face. It's one of the best zoo's in the UK in my view and I just love it. With all the changes coming, I don't think it's fair to say it's going down hill. I can't wait to get there again in a couple of weeks, I miss it so much.
African Valley is still a work in progress I believe and there are many changes happening. I will stand up for Marwell til I'm blue in the face. It's one of the best zoo's in the UK in my view and I just love it. With all the changes coming, I don't think it's fair to say it's going down hill. I can't wait to get there again in a couple of weeks, I miss it so much.
When I see some positive steps, I will be the first in the queue to applaud them.
However, just because an enclosure looks nice to a person doesn't mean it's any good to the animals within.
Functional enclosures with happy engaged animals are much more important than a prettied up plastic temple with waterfall that the animals get no benefit from.
This applies to all zoos.
What good as Zambar points out, is a flower garden? It looks nice-but it's not going to attract people to a zoo is it?
If they want to use some empty space to set up a botanical garden, why not get Hilliers to sponsor it?
It would be a nightmare to turn Marwell into regional areas-doesn't actually work as you have Pygmy Hippos with Tapirs, and the wallabies round in the old children's zoo, with the Asian animals in between, but the Tigers are still high on the hill in Africa, and the Red Pandas halfway down, near Coatis (S America) and Celebes Ape (Asia). Just leave it as random!
What about digging out a big chunk of the slope where the Roans used to be (and the Ankole were last time I went), tipping in a quarry full of rock and having it as Marwell's own Mappin Terraces? Chamois, Ibex, Barbary Sheep, Rocky Mountain Goats, Barbary Apes and Brown Bears?
Or plant it up with fast growing trees and have a woodland glade with Wolves or make it into a huge Tiger enclosure?
That whole back-side of the park has always felt a bit empty and a bit of an afterthought to me-it's never really been used to it's full potential.
However, just because an enclosure looks nice to a person doesn't mean it's any good to the animals within.
Functional enclosures with happy engaged animals are much more important than a prettied up plastic temple with waterfall that the animals get no benefit from.
This applies to all zoos.
What good as Zambar points out, is a flower garden? It looks nice-but it's not going to attract people to a zoo is it?
If they want to use some empty space to set up a botanical garden, why not get Hilliers to sponsor it?
It would be a nightmare to turn Marwell into regional areas-doesn't actually work as you have Pygmy Hippos with Tapirs, and the wallabies round in the old children's zoo, with the Asian animals in between, but the Tigers are still high on the hill in Africa, and the Red Pandas halfway down, near Coatis (S America) and Celebes Ape (Asia). Just leave it as random!
What about digging out a big chunk of the slope where the Roans used to be (and the Ankole were last time I went), tipping in a quarry full of rock and having it as Marwell's own Mappin Terraces? Chamois, Ibex, Barbary Sheep, Rocky Mountain Goats, Barbary Apes and Brown Bears?
Or plant it up with fast growing trees and have a woodland glade with Wolves or make it into a huge Tiger enclosure?
That whole back-side of the park has always felt a bit empty and a bit of an afterthought to me-it's never really been used to it's full potential.