#BringBackNationalDex
- Thread starter ZPA
- Start date
I think this was a good decision. We are nearing 1000 Pokemon, assuming Galar introduces around the same number as many of the other regions. We will eventually get to the point where there are simply too many Pokemon to fit into one game - this had to happen sooner or later.
You know how Gens 7 and 8 didn't introduce that many new Pokemon? That because there were already so many Pokemon, they didn't have much room left for the others. Cutting old Pokemon form the game will allow Game Freak to introduce more new Pokemon than these generations.
Bird Keeper Toby goes into more detail here:
To get this thread slightly more to the topic of this website, Bird Keeper Toby works at a zoo.
You know how Gens 7 and 8 didn't introduce that many new Pokemon? That because there were already so many Pokemon, they didn't have much room left for the others. Cutting old Pokemon form the game will allow Game Freak to introduce more new Pokemon than these generations.
Bird Keeper Toby goes into more detail here:
To get this thread slightly more to the topic of this website, Bird Keeper Toby works at a zoo.
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I haven't played Pokemon games in many years but has anyone ever been able to actually "catch 'em all" anyway? Even with being able to transfer Pokemon from old games into new ones, you'd essentially have to catch every new Pokemon in every single new generation that's ever come out, as well as restart each one at least three times to get all the starters, and play all the duplicate versions so you could get all the legendaries.
~Thylo
~Thylo
It is possible to "catch them all" in one game save through trading.
Do any of you still feel this way now that it's out? I think it's the best Pokemon game now. I mean come on, look at this evolution line based on British birds:
Rookidee, a Great Tit (or maybe a Eurasian Blue Tit?)
Corvisquire, a jackdaw.
Corviknight (a raven, and also a knight)
And who doesn't love Pokemon like Eisque and Falinks? And all the hilarious fossils? This is the best generation yet.
Rookidee, a Great Tit (or maybe a Eurasian Blue Tit?)
Corvisquire, a jackdaw.
Corviknight (a raven, and also a knight)
And who doesn't love Pokemon like Eisque and Falinks? And all the hilarious fossils? This is the best generation yet.
So? My favorite Pokemon (Rowlet) didn't make it in and I don't care. Besides, whenever a new Gen comes out I only use the new Pokemon, anyway.
I've heard that it's not bad. What is it even out for again, the WII U or the WII Switch or something like that?
Nintendo Switch.
I didn’t know this thread existed but I am a very big bringbacknationaldex supporter. Let me list some reasons why this cut was unacceptable
WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD.
1. Main game and story are the shortest and least creative yet.
Reasoning. The main game on average playtime without blitzing through everything or taking time to search everything is roughly 15 hours which is the shortest mainline game story.
2. Characters are extremely bland, even compared to other games
The characters are extremely bland and uninteresting, especially team yell, what happened to the days of evil teams creating new worlds, orchestrating a mafia and planning world domination. The ‘evil’ characters Oelana and Chairman Rose feel bland without a true motive, Oelana feels like copy paste Lusamine and Rose is a copy paste of Maxie/Archie.
3. Hop
Hop is by far the worst rival in main series Pokémon games (tracer doesn’t help), at least Hau has personality such as his love for malsaldas and high energy and he’s not even a good rival. Not to mention it has been proven that Hop actually uses most of Haus animations which is deplorable.
4. Postgame
What happened to the days of Gens 3, 4 and 5 (USUM too) with extensive postgame and a lot to do because the removal of features and laziness’s of game freak.
5. Removal of loads of features
This dosent just apply to SWSH but most of the newer Pokémon games in general. The only reason Gen 5s cuts were acceptable because they introduced a ton of new features and had good postgame and main game. Let’s give a remembrance to our fallen modes shall we.
battle frontier
dex nav
Contests
Z Moves
Mega evolutions
GTS
Join Avenue
Gen 5 special encounters
Ultra Warp Ride
Amity Park
Following Pokémon
Poke Pelago
And many more features
6. Frame rate
The 3DS games running at 30FPS was fine but on the switch it should be running consistently at 60FPS, if other games can do it so can pokemon.
7. Graphics
many people have praised the games lacklustre graphics which compared to other Nintendo switch games such as Breath Of The Wild, Mario Oddessy, SSBU, Splatoon 2, MK8 deluxe, even untitled goose game and indie game from melbourne has better graphics and textures speaking of textures.
8. Textures
Wild area trees. No more needs to be said they look like ocarina of time trees on the N64
9. Wild Area is a good idea but executed poorly
Wild area was a good idea but the way it was preformed was bad, the player travels through it twice and not to mention there are only 10 routes in the game instead of the usual 15-25. The textures were bad, area feels empty and Pokémon are over leveled, being able to catch most Pokémon at lvl 60 after the game ends isn’t fun because it takes away the grind.
10. EXP share
Why did they make it forced?, I admit I use it in play throughs but it destroys tons of ways to play the game which others do such as Nuzlockes and other lock modes.
11. GTS removal
Not very good at all, it makes version exclusives and trade item evolutions much harder to get when they were already too hard to get.
12. Move Dexit
got rid of all Z moves as well as a bunch of moves some of which were important to the competitive scene such as Pursuit, Return and Hidden Power.
13. SWSH Singles
So far it is easily the most broken and unfair meta in Pokémon history, at least gen 7 allowed users to experiment with other Pokémon as long as they had something to check Lando T, Heatran, Ash gren etc. Now in the SWSH meta if you don’t stick with the top guns you will lose almost every match. Dynamaxing is absolutely broken and the removal of pursuit has let aegislash get away with too much. Dyna Gyarados and Barraskewda have been dominating to points that if you thought Lando T was bad it’s not.
14. Reused Models
If all the Pokémon were in most of the community would be fine with this but they aren’t so instead of just using their reused models they cut a bunch.
15. National Dex
Limits all sorts of play styles and forces people to either leave their Pokémon in Alola or have them trapped in Pokémon home
16. Pokémon Home
A paywall service which deletes your Pokémon if they aren’t payed for, not mentioning that some Pokémon can’t be transferred to games. Some Pokémon such as the shinx and glameow line haven’t been in a regional dex for close to a decade.
17. Incorrect Scaling
Pokémon are correctly scaled in the over world but not in battles. Warlord is barely the height of the trainer yet it’s supposed to be 14.5 metres high. Pokémon battle revolution on the Wii has a properly scaled Wailord and was not created by Game freak or creatures inc.
18. Reused and poor animations
First for clarification
Animation= how the Pokémon moves during the attack does it actually kick or does it hop in place
Special Effects are the colour or substance such as the foot in double kick.
Example 1.
Scorbunny and Double Kick
Scorbunny hops in place not kicking anything while the special effects stamp a foot on the opponent
Battle revolution in the Wii comparison.
Blaziken uses double kick and actually uses his feet to kick the opponent.
All animations of old Pokémon are reused including over world, walking, running, Pokémon camp (ripped from refresh/amie), idle and attack animations.
T posing wingulls show how much effort game freak puts in their game.
19. it’s on the Nintendo switch. If games from the Wii have better animations and cleaner graphics with slightly more Pokémon than the entire dex in SWSH why can SWSH do the same on a much more serpirour console.
20. NPCs still walk on a grid and twist from one side to the other like a robot.
21. Game freak LIED.
The official Statements game freak made were to give the Pokémon more expression and flesh out the game which is obviously not apparent.
22. Masuda went back on his own statements twice
Q: “Will I be able to transfer my pokemon from Let’s Go to the new title in 2019?”
A: “We made a bad memory back when you couldn’t transfer your pokemon into the newest game (gen 2 -> 3), we want to work to prevent that from happening again.”
From an LGPE interview. Kind of funny that not all Pokémon in LGPE are transferable.
There’s another quote from the Prima ORAS guidebook in an interview but I don’t have it on me right now.
23. The Pokémon company stated that this was a game dedicated to hardcore fans of the series when it removed everything that game Pokémon it’s soul.
All done for now. I harbour no ill will to people that enjoy the game and I do admit some of the new designs are actually pretty clean such as Appletun, Alcremie, Corviknight and others.
Remember these two quotes
Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best
From Pokémon Gold and Silver
A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.
Shigeru Miyamoto
WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD.
1. Main game and story are the shortest and least creative yet.
Reasoning. The main game on average playtime without blitzing through everything or taking time to search everything is roughly 15 hours which is the shortest mainline game story.
2. Characters are extremely bland, even compared to other games
The characters are extremely bland and uninteresting, especially team yell, what happened to the days of evil teams creating new worlds, orchestrating a mafia and planning world domination. The ‘evil’ characters Oelana and Chairman Rose feel bland without a true motive, Oelana feels like copy paste Lusamine and Rose is a copy paste of Maxie/Archie.
3. Hop
Hop is by far the worst rival in main series Pokémon games (tracer doesn’t help), at least Hau has personality such as his love for malsaldas and high energy and he’s not even a good rival. Not to mention it has been proven that Hop actually uses most of Haus animations which is deplorable.
4. Postgame
What happened to the days of Gens 3, 4 and 5 (USUM too) with extensive postgame and a lot to do because the removal of features and laziness’s of game freak.
5. Removal of loads of features
This dosent just apply to SWSH but most of the newer Pokémon games in general. The only reason Gen 5s cuts were acceptable because they introduced a ton of new features and had good postgame and main game. Let’s give a remembrance to our fallen modes shall we.
battle frontier
dex nav
Contests
Z Moves
Mega evolutions
GTS
Join Avenue
Gen 5 special encounters
Ultra Warp Ride
Amity Park
Following Pokémon
Poke Pelago
And many more features
6. Frame rate
The 3DS games running at 30FPS was fine but on the switch it should be running consistently at 60FPS, if other games can do it so can pokemon.
7. Graphics
many people have praised the games lacklustre graphics which compared to other Nintendo switch games such as Breath Of The Wild, Mario Oddessy, SSBU, Splatoon 2, MK8 deluxe, even untitled goose game and indie game from melbourne has better graphics and textures speaking of textures.
8. Textures
Wild area trees. No more needs to be said they look like ocarina of time trees on the N64
9. Wild Area is a good idea but executed poorly
Wild area was a good idea but the way it was preformed was bad, the player travels through it twice and not to mention there are only 10 routes in the game instead of the usual 15-25. The textures were bad, area feels empty and Pokémon are over leveled, being able to catch most Pokémon at lvl 60 after the game ends isn’t fun because it takes away the grind.
10. EXP share
Why did they make it forced?, I admit I use it in play throughs but it destroys tons of ways to play the game which others do such as Nuzlockes and other lock modes.
11. GTS removal
Not very good at all, it makes version exclusives and trade item evolutions much harder to get when they were already too hard to get.
12. Move Dexit
got rid of all Z moves as well as a bunch of moves some of which were important to the competitive scene such as Pursuit, Return and Hidden Power.
13. SWSH Singles
So far it is easily the most broken and unfair meta in Pokémon history, at least gen 7 allowed users to experiment with other Pokémon as long as they had something to check Lando T, Heatran, Ash gren etc. Now in the SWSH meta if you don’t stick with the top guns you will lose almost every match. Dynamaxing is absolutely broken and the removal of pursuit has let aegislash get away with too much. Dyna Gyarados and Barraskewda have been dominating to points that if you thought Lando T was bad it’s not.
14. Reused Models
If all the Pokémon were in most of the community would be fine with this but they aren’t so instead of just using their reused models they cut a bunch.
15. National Dex
Limits all sorts of play styles and forces people to either leave their Pokémon in Alola or have them trapped in Pokémon home
16. Pokémon Home
A paywall service which deletes your Pokémon if they aren’t payed for, not mentioning that some Pokémon can’t be transferred to games. Some Pokémon such as the shinx and glameow line haven’t been in a regional dex for close to a decade.
17. Incorrect Scaling
Pokémon are correctly scaled in the over world but not in battles. Warlord is barely the height of the trainer yet it’s supposed to be 14.5 metres high. Pokémon battle revolution on the Wii has a properly scaled Wailord and was not created by Game freak or creatures inc.
18. Reused and poor animations
First for clarification
Animation= how the Pokémon moves during the attack does it actually kick or does it hop in place
Special Effects are the colour or substance such as the foot in double kick.
Example 1.
Scorbunny and Double Kick
Scorbunny hops in place not kicking anything while the special effects stamp a foot on the opponent
Battle revolution in the Wii comparison.
Blaziken uses double kick and actually uses his feet to kick the opponent.
All animations of old Pokémon are reused including over world, walking, running, Pokémon camp (ripped from refresh/amie), idle and attack animations.
T posing wingulls show how much effort game freak puts in their game.
19. it’s on the Nintendo switch. If games from the Wii have better animations and cleaner graphics with slightly more Pokémon than the entire dex in SWSH why can SWSH do the same on a much more serpirour console.
20. NPCs still walk on a grid and twist from one side to the other like a robot.
21. Game freak LIED.
The official Statements game freak made were to give the Pokémon more expression and flesh out the game which is obviously not apparent.
22. Masuda went back on his own statements twice
Q: “Will I be able to transfer my pokemon from Let’s Go to the new title in 2019?”
A: “We made a bad memory back when you couldn’t transfer your pokemon into the newest game (gen 2 -> 3), we want to work to prevent that from happening again.”
From an LGPE interview. Kind of funny that not all Pokémon in LGPE are transferable.
There’s another quote from the Prima ORAS guidebook in an interview but I don’t have it on me right now.
23. The Pokémon company stated that this was a game dedicated to hardcore fans of the series when it removed everything that game Pokémon it’s soul.
All done for now. I harbour no ill will to people that enjoy the game and I do admit some of the new designs are actually pretty clean such as Appletun, Alcremie, Corviknight and others.
Remember these two quotes
Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled Trainers should try to win with the Pokémon they love best
From Pokémon Gold and Silver
A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad.
Shigeru Miyamoto
1 and 2. I agree a few of the characters (Rose and Oleana in particular) lack any sort of motive, but when was the last time you played Pokemon for the compelling story? At least the plot made a little sense, I remember Team Galactic trying to create a different universe for no reason.
3. Hop's personality isn't clear on the surface, you have to put yourself in your shoes in order to understand his struggles. He has lived in shadow of his brother Leon for so long, he can't help but be insignificant or boring in comparison. Hau's ONLY personality trait was that he liked to eat malasada? What kind of character is that?! Hop's personality may not be obvious, but his character is deep and relatable if you take a moment to think.
4. At least this game has some postgame. Even that famous (and worshiped) Red and Blue didn't have that. Neither did Gold and Silver.
5. These didn't come back because each has ties to a specific region, and don't have a place in others. It wouldn't make sense for Poke Pelago, for example, to exist in Galar because it isn't a tropical island chain, and Mohn has no reason to be there. This game has plenty of its own features, including Poke Jobs, the Wild Area, Leauge Cards, and several others.
6. Not sure why this is a big deal. Who cares if it's a bit slow as long as it's a good game.
7 and 8. See above. I know a lot of people who don't enjoy any game more than a few years old because the graphics aren't good enough. With that logic, all games will be bad in a few years time! If Minecraft had made its debut on the Switch, would you comdem it for bad graphics?
9. Did you only want to go through the Wild Area once? This replaces two of the routes! The Pokemon being over-leveled in certain areas was kind of the point. That way it;s more realistic.
10. One of the few things in this game I'm not a fan of.
11. This bugs me as well, I assume this will be added in Pokemon Home.
12. Again, Z-Moves are tied into the culture of the Alola region. They have no place in Galar and it doesn't make too much sense for them to exist there, anyway. The reason those moves were removed was to balance the competitive meta. I don't know if you played competitive during Gen VII, but it was almost universally hated by players, in contrast to the most positive reaction now.
13. Dynamaxing isn't OP as long as you know how to deal with it. I imagine more strategies around it will arise soon, especially stalling with two turns moves like Dig.
14 and 15. I don't know why Game Freak said what they did about the models, but I'm quick to blame them (and frankly don't really care if they did). "Dexit" was inevitable for many reasons (if you want me to go over them in a future post I will) and it had to happen sooner or later. Why not a little earlier? Besides, a regional Pokedex of 400 is much larger than every previous game.
16. We know next to nothing about Home. I suspect the reason it's taking so long to develop is because it will have battling and a GTS. You know, with ALL the Pokemon.
17. Pokemon sizes are ridiculous, of course they can't scale them. Imagine if they did try to scale Wailord - it wouldn't fit in the stadium! Likewise Pokemon like Joltik and Diglett would be much too small.
18. Not completely sure why this is an issue. All of the 3D Pokemon have had this.
19. You're dissing this game because it's on a good console? I understand it didn't go the full potential, but it is far from bad.
20. As always.
21. Of course that's what they said - they have to make it sound good in an interview. I don't pretend to know their reasons but I suspect it was to balance the competitive scene. You obviously can't remove just a few Pokemon, you have to remove more to justify it.
22. Yes, but they will be transferable to future game presumably. Remember how ORAS kind of "filled out the Pokedex" for XY? The same thing will happen here, I know it.
23. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
It seems to me that Pokemon fans are merciless. Other game fandoms want change to their favorite franchises. And they when they tried to with Let's Go!, it was too different. And they they diled it back a bit, it was too the same. These games were far from rushed. XY (a very rushed game) began coding two weeks before BW were announced. Refrences to Arceus creating Spear Pillar exist as far back as Pokemon 3: Spell of the Unown. Game Freak is far from behind.
In addition, it seems Game Freak may have sacrificed this game in order to give Pokemon a better future. A lot of old Pokemon developers moved on to Little Town Hero this year. In interviews they all said that that game was a very different experience and will help them improve Pokemon in the future.
But I think this game is the best one yet. It's the fastest selling Nintendo Switch game for a reason.
again no hate towards your opinion but I’m going to counter
4. I never said red and blue were amazing in fact they are my least favourite. Also Gold and silver have a massive postgame you explore a whole region plus mount silver and 8 more gyms.
7 and 8
It’s not about how the graphics look to the age it’s how the graphics look on the console, it’s the fact that SWSH compared to almost every other big title and some smaller ones have watered down graphics which look like a modded 3DS.
21. Have you even played SWSH on showdown yet?It’s a complete ruckus filled with dyna Gyarados which sweeps your whole team after one dragon dance plus they gave it power whip of all things.
22. Even if they are transferable to future games that dosent remedy the pain leaving your Pokémon in Alola or even worse Pokémon Home (paywall) till they release a new game and even then you won’t be able to battle with all of them.
18. It’s bad because animations give Pokémon expression and personality which game freak said they were going to provide. Scorbunny just hopping in place while a foot stamps out isn’t satisfactory.
5. Mega evolutions don’t have a connection to Alola so that claim dosent work out. Forgot to mention Pokeathlon and the Musical too.
9. No actually I was hoping to go through it at least 3 or 4 times kind of like what Lumiose city does in the Kalos games.
13.
The issue with dyna max isn’t there boost to HP but it’s he max moves special effects with Moxie Gyarados after one dragon dance you have a nuke which can boost its speed (Max Bounce) set up rain (Max Waterfall) or unleash a coverage move. Let’s not forget that earthquake is an extremely common coverage move which will hit Pokémon in dig for double damage and yes Gyarados gets it. Even with Dyna or Gyarados banned the meta will still be unstable due to aeglislash not getting ko by pursuit and more importantly the frequency of fast mons with excellent coverage and stats which tear open teams like galar darmanitan, Barraskewda, scarfed togekiss, excadrill, heck even Heliolisk can hold its own.
Your final statement. We wanted change but we wanted change that would make the game more of an experience not just a 20 hour voyage. Let’s go was basically the opposite of what the majority of the community wanted and while I do agree it has some charms it is a cash grab.
XY was rushed because they had to make new models from scratch the only reason the old models aren’t acceptable in SWSH is because of the Pokémon cut.
Whoops
1 and 2.
Team Galactic didn’t have a motive however Cyrus did, he wanted perfection. Here are some of his lines from Pokémon Platnium
According to one theory, Mt. Coronet is where the Sinnoh region began. In a newly created world... A world where only time flowed and space expanded... There should have been no strife. But what became of the world? Because the human spirit is weak and incomplete, strife has spread... This world is being ruined by it... I find this state of affairs deplorable..."
"I would like to know more about that legend, if you will."
"My name is Cyrus. I want to put an end to pointless strife and hostility. I am seeking the power to create the ideal world. Thus, I want you to answer. The world today can't change because the three Pokémon keep it in balance. Is that what you are saying?"
"...Plead ignorance, will you? What a pointless attitude. You fail to appreciate that the world is incomplete. I will change the world. As the first step, I will destroy this cave painting that you've protected all these years. A new legend of a new world will take its place. Am I wrong? If you feel that way, challenge me."
Note: the three Pokémon mean the lake guardians Azelf, Uxie and Mesprit
"I know why you're here. I can sense it in you. It's about Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf, correct? You want to save them... I no longer have any need for them. I am finished with them. If your heart aches to save them, go right ahead. I couldn't care less. It will save me the trouble of disposing them."
"But, I must say... You are a remarkable specimen. Those Pokémon have nothing to do with you, do they? But still you come to rescue them out of pity? Such pitifully useless emotions... It's illogical and irrational. Pity and compassion are products of the weak and faulty human heart. You were compelled to come here by such vacuous sentimentality! I will make you regret paying heed to your heart!"
I see... You are indeed strong. And the basis of your power is your compassion towards Pokémon."
"...How wasteful... Such emotions are but mere illusions. And, like all illusions, they fade over time until death banishes them forever. That is why I have abandoned all emotions as useless as sentimentality
"... ... Everything is ready for the creation of a new world. Now, all will end. And everything will begin. With this, the Red Chain made from the crystals of the three lake Pokémon. And this, the Red Chain I replicated with technological means... With these Red Chains I will pry open the portal to another dimension. I command that you unleash your power for me..."
"Dialga, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of time! ...And the other. Palkia, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of space and dimensions!"
"I've waited so long for this moment, Dialga and Palkia. Shaping this world is a double spiral of time and space. Yes, the very things that you have the ability to control! You will do my bidding! I will have your abilities as mine! With the power I wield, I will create an entirely new world! The incomplete and ugly world we have now can disappear. I am resetting everything to zero. Nothing can remain. It is all for making the ultimate world. A world of complete perfection. Nothing so vague and incomplete as spirit can remain."
"...I should have expected as much. Uxie, "The Being of Knowledge." Azelf, "The Being of Willpower." And Mesprit, "The Being of Emotion"..."
"The Pokémon have come to protect Sinnoh? Pathetic and worthless. It takes the three of them, the three lake Pokémon that symbolize spirit, to balance either the Pokémon of time or space. But they can't maintain balance against the two. Not when both Dialga and Palkia are here. Their coming here is in vain. So much meaningless drama. Now, <player>. You've constantly interfered with my plans, but you will be forgiven. After all, there will remain no spirit for all time when I am done. All spirit will disappear. It will be ripped away... From you! From your Pokémon! From those precious to you...! It is time! My dream will be my reality!"
"What is this pressure I feel...? Something...is enraged?"
"Interesting. So, there is a Pokémon that can only appear as a shadow."
"Regardless, the effort is rash and foolish. I have harnessed the powers of Dialga and Palkia..."
"I, Cyrus, won't have any more interferererererere...!"
I can’t be bothered explaining but there is a lot of evidence which show his motives and goals in here.
17. if pokemon battle revolution developed by a much smaller company with less time and resources can do it I think SWSH should too.
15. Your claim said that SWSH regional dex of 403 is the largest and that claim is false.
USUM ties with SWSH.
XY’s regional dex is a whopping 464 despite how rushed it was.
Now we know they literally aren't complete games. This whole thing seems kind of silly now.