Bristol Zoo (Closed) Bristol Zoo News 2022

[Kifaru Bwana]

That is jumping to conclusions with no actual information to inform your assumptions.



There are no gap years to be bridged. As I have posted twice today, the zoo have said the Wild Place will remain open until the zoo opens in 2024. How this will work logistically remains to be seen but presumably there will be visitor income during this time.



I don't accept this conclusion at all. It is neither plain nor simple.

I do intend to look at the finances and yes some may be assumptions, but I have worked in real estate and project management long enough to know you need concrete evidence on the ground of what is planned, create interest, a dynamic....be seen to be working on projects, actively canvassing investors with part projects to fund or buy into. Apart from some general pages of PR and info on the Society's pages and a new plan that has been far less on detail in animal collection, focal species and exhibits all planned for compared to the erstwhile Masterplan (the one that got WP started years ago) citing particular eco regions and an assemblage of species they would work with.

A few itemised logo's with gorilla, European bison and a few other bits and bolts here and there and that is it. The former MP had design plans and what we have seen up till now is a scant outlay of a plan showing the proposed park. Nothing much to go on for now to make a more informed judgement.

In the Netherlands building a park from scratch, the New Wildlands Emmen had 200 mio Euros in public investment and with a concept more attraction and discovery than trad zoo and visitor appeal it did not cut it. In fact, it turned into a financial nightmare amidst managerial incompetence.

Now do not get me wrong I love the original ideas behind WP and do see a management with some vision and all, but for now it is to be fair a rather very small collection, you will be hard pressed to make it a full days outing, few species and exhibits to enjoy, even fewer facilities, restaurant, outlets and play areas for the general public.

Even if Bristol Zoo was rather tiny it catered for all the full compliment and has had a very diverse collection from mammals to fish and inverts and reptiles and with the ubiqitious a few bigger crowd pullers. WP now has giraffe, lemurs, the woodlands with some European species, a tuny bird garden and wide outlaw of footpaths. It is a far cry from f.i. YWP which is what I think Bristol's WP is and should be administratief for and year on year opening a few more attractions.

It has not created much new attractions in the last 2 years and is actually cutting back a bit even. Okapis, a sinature species for Bristol, leaving alltogether with a focus area bare and now filled with RRH or so isvnot going to get the zoo punters in and returning for repeat visit. I cannot see why they could not have done more in already relocating here like pygmy hippos , a few more primates, create a tropical wetland or whatever...

Financewise I find it difficult to make sense as to where the Society really stands now financially. Obviously, Covid and lockdowns have had their impact but developing collections like YWP and Hamerton or Fota WP have foremost weathered the culture cut storms rather well. I am not sure how this is with Bristol Zoo closing this year and WP remaining open but being hardly a proper zoo that keeps you keeping on. It is in my view really in danger of losing clientèle to nearby NAZF indefinitely and at least for the foreseeable future.

The Bristol Zoo site may be up for sale ... but I have yet to see whom or what to? There have been some wild claims as to how much cash an intercity site might bring in, just ATM there is no offers on the ground.

Nay there have even been some other parties including naff Uni folks wanting to set up shop and project in Clifton a rather different reality than higher end housing and public green quality park space. While a smokescreen it done enough to stall momentum for WP, it was kind of a downmentum.

Where is the cash and funding needed to build back a bigger better zoo at WP? I do not see it right now ...

Well, while you may not agree with me ... fine ... I do think my reservations and sentiments do have merits and carry weight and have validity.

When I get round to looking into the finances of BZ I will let you know.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

As is the zoo.

Given the fact that the collection in Clifton has become rather reduced in size *because* of the impending closure, stating that the collection at Bristol Zoo has dwindled in size doesn't demonstrate that Wild Place having relatively little to offer isn't an issue

It isn't viable and it is no longer fit for purpose.

I rather think that this is a true case of the "begging the question" fallacy, presupposing as it does that your claim is actually accurate Bristol lacking the money to keep both collections afloat is not an indication that the Clifton site is unfit, especially when one considers the many strengths of the collection in recent years. You are, in effect, pointing to the fact Bristol Zoo is being wound down and the collection dispersed as an indication that it needs to be wound down and dispersed.

The move *is* required, sadly, given the financial landscape - but dismissing those expressing concerns about the way it's happening as "mud-slingers" is rather rash methinks.

 

[Everyonelovesatapir]

As is the zoo.



No there isn't a guarantee. The relocated zoo will in many ways be a new collection. The fact is that the Clifton site is closing. It isn't viable and it is no longer fit for purpose. So many of us love it and have precious memories and associations with it. I understand this is is painful, even traumatic for some but we must come to terms with the fact that this is happening, frankly we have had long enough now to do so.

I don't understand why people are slinging mud at Bristol Zoological Society over this and suggesting that the move is some kind of reckless whim which hasn't been properly thought out when there is currently no evidence to suggest this is the case.

I'm not suggesting the move is reckless, but what I am saying is there are so many faults with WPP, that closing the main zoo, should not be done until WPP is ready to open as a main functioning zoo. It seems like the money is needed from the sale to fund the plans, which is all well and good but it does beg the question of what will happen with all the animals at Bristol, as if the site is sold, the new owners wont want to sit waiting for 18 months to start redeveloping it.

WPP is a massive site, 130 odd acres, so 10x the size of the City Zoo, but one could argue the City Zoo is a better Zoo, with more attractive animals to visit. The Zoo on its homepage boasts of "explore our 50 acres bursting into spring", so effectively 40% of the site is already occupied but there is very little there. Yes there is room to expand and lots of it, but it could up like Manor Wildlife Park, with massive exhibits but very few animals and whilst that is excellent for Welfare, people don't want to go to the Zoo to see maybe 20-30 different species of animals, especially if they aren't big attention grabbing species.

WPP has the potential to be all YWP is. Okay its only half as big in acreage but even when it started off small it had loads of big exhibits and top species there. For me WPP in its current format doesn't make a day out really. You can walk round in an hour and there is little to do there.

A perfectly good Zoo which was functional is being closed to make way for a supposed better one in 18 months time, but the footfall that go to Bristol, wont go to WPP during the development stage. Granted when it reopens, provided they have managed to sort out the issues it currently has, it should be a big attraction, but I feel that when it reopens in 2024 the only new exhibits will be 3 or 4, and it will be like a new Bear Wood exhibit opening. The plan is all the way until 2035, 13 years away to have the massive attractive Zoo they want. However within 13 years you will find a lot of Bristolians will have ended up going for their days out at Noahs Ark, Longleat or even Paignton and so on.

I hope the new Zoo is brilliant and caters for all, but closing one 18 months before the other is ready to take over the mantle is a huge risk.

 

[Shirokuma]

Given the fact that the collection in Clifton has become rather reduced in size *because* of the impending closure, stating that the collection at Bristol Zoo has dwindled in size doesn't demonstrate that Wild Place having relatively little to offer isn't an issue

I rather think that this is a true case of the "begging the question" fallacy, presupposing as it does that your claim is actually accurate Bristol lacking the money to keep both collections afloat is not an indication that the Clifton site is unfit, especially when one considers the many strengths of the collection in recent years. You are, in effect, pointing to the fact Bristol Zoo is being wound down and the collection dispersed as an indication that it needs to be wound down and dispersed.

The move *is* required, sadly, given the financial landscape - but dismissing those expressing concerns about the way it's happening as "mud-slingers" is rather rash methinks.

Please don't use laughing face/sticking tongue out emojis. It brings down the tone of the conversation, appears to mocking and isn't appropriate behaviour from a moderator.

Back on topic, my view is that the Clifton site is no longer fit for purpose as a site to attract sufficient numbers of people to sustain the collection. It is no longer fit for purpose as a site for the display of large animals in settings that are acceptable to the public, meeting their expectations of a modern and humane zoo. A botanic garden with a scaled back conservation-focussed animal collection as you suggest in the guide book thread would be lovely but we must live in the world as it is rather than how we would like it to be and the site is no longer viable for a zoo.

Suggesting financial incompetence with no basis to do so and implying they have no idea what they are doing does indeed strike me as mud -slinging.

 

[Jonfla]

I'm neutral on this. So from an outside perspective many of you seem to love Bristol Zoo and the staff that run it.
Surely the future aim will be to repeat that at the "new" Bristol zoo. I am sure however long it takes a closure/ gap of the new zoo,the reopening will be highly anticipated by you all and I can imagine on this thread you counting down the days to the big reveal.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Please don't use laughing face/sticking tongue out emojis. It brings down the tone of the conversation, appears to mocking and isn't appropriate behaviour from a moderator.

We've had this conversation before, I believe - your immutable belief that a moderator should never use emoticons to indicate lightness of tone, emotion or other non-verbal indicators, and tendency to complain whenever you see me using them is getting somewhat tiresome at this point. No mocking tone was intended whatsoever; as I've said on previous occasions I use emoticons to indicate light-heartedness and amiability, especially when voicing dissent with someone's opinion whilst wanting to indicate no hostility is intended.

But that's by the by.

It is no longer fit for purpose as a site for the display of large animals in settings that are acceptable to the public, meeting their expectations of a modern and humane zoo. A botanic garden with a scaled back conservation-focussed animal collection as you suggest in the guide book thread would be lovely but we must live in the world as it is rather than how we would like it to be and the site is no longer viable for a zoo.

the site is no longer viable for a zoo.

You are, of course, entirely ignoring the fact that Bristol Zoo has not really *been* a collection full of large animals (barring the gorillas and lions, and latterly the pygmy hippo) for quite some time, being primarily a collection of small and mid-size species, and until recent events was faring rather well in the process; in other words it's not a choice between the zoo being able to house large megafauna, and the zoo being entirely unfit for purpose, and you are incorrectly assuming that a zoo has to be capable of housing large animals (whether they are even doing so or not) to be classed as fit for purpose.

All the above can be taken as amiable dissent in the spirit of enjoyable debate, as I would generally indicate with a or

 

[GaryA]

Personally, I think they should bite the bullet, and do a final closure sooner rather than later, even if it means not being open for a few months.

The money from the sale should more than fund the construction costs to move the rest of the stock over, and animals that cannot be accommodated moved on, even if temporarily.

No point at all in having half and half collections that satisfy no one, as the footfall will dwindle to nothing otherwise.

 

[Ned]

For the final 100 metres or so one has to walk on a major road with no footpath, with fast-moving traffic along said road.... so no, it's most certainly not a "good access path" it's only marginally less dangerous than trying to walk to Howletts, on account of being shorter!

View attachment 531852

In fact there is a pedestrian entrance that avoids walking on any roads.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

In fact there is a pedestrian entrance that avoids walking on any roads.

Whereabouts? Looking on the map, I cannot work out where it could be located.

 

[Ned]

Whereabouts? Looking on the map, I cannot work out where it could be located.

Just after crossing the slip road that comes off the M5 there is a discrete entrance gate that leads through to the car park. I'll see if I can find it on street view.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Just after crossing the slip road that comes off the M5 there is a discrete entrance gate that leads through to the car park. I'll see if I can find it on street view.

Found it - it's actually *on* the street view image I posted! Interesting to know

 

[Ned]

Here's a picture of the entrance.

 

[Ned]

You got there before me

 

[Pertinax]

. Granted when it reopens, provided they have managed to sort out the issues it currently has, it should be a big attraction, but I feel that when it reopens in 2024 the only new exhibits will be 3 or 4, and it will be like a new Bear Wood exhibit opening. The plan is all the way until 2035, 13 years away to have the massive attractive Zoo they want. However within 13 years you will find a lot of Bristolians will have ended up going for their days out at Noahs Ark, Longleat or even Paignton and so on.

That is pretty much the way I see developments going too as far as the timeline is concerned. At the 2024 'opening' there will be at least one major development- the Gorillas and associated rainforest species, and they will remain the star attraction for the new zoo after their move. I'm rather racking my brains to think what else could add up to other new major attractions in the short term- the Lions(?) -but it sounds like they may not be in the shorter term plans. Return of Okapi to upgraded accomodation? Perhaps best to stop guessing and just wait and see....

 

[Everyonelovesatapir]

I popped along to Bristol Zoo today and was chatting to someone there (staff), they said that only 3 mammals had been confirmed to move to Wild Place. Gorilla's, Red Panda's & Blue Eyed Black Lemurs. They said possibly the Crowned Lemurs may move as well. They also said some of the endangered reptiles and fish would be moving as well, as they are going to get rid of the Walled Garden at WPP and replace it with an animal hospital, visitor centre and this is where the Reptiles and Fish will be, but it will only be a select few.

The Gorilla exhibit at WPP will be where the old Wolf exhibit was. Okapi will return to the collection, but after one died, they were left with one so it was deemed best to move it to another collection. The keeper said Okapi don't do well with noise so with a lot of the building to be done in and around their exhibit at WPP, it was thought best to bring them back when the phase one build is complete. They will be back for 2024 however, but not likely before then.

I asked about some of the Twilight World animals and was told the majority had already moved on.

The keeper at BZ implied the opening of WPP as BZ will not be until the summer 2024, and that staff from BZ were hoping to move over.

The Lions are also going to another collection later in the year she said, and not to WPP.

With the Walled Garden being removed at WPP, Meerkats would most likely leave the collection meaning WPP will probably be the only Zoo not to have Meerkats!

Gorillas Red Pandas and Lemurs will also not leave the Bristol site until 2024, so it means that building at BZ is unlikely to commence before 2024 when the animals have all moved on.

Hope the above is of interest and may answer some questions people have. I'm temped to visit WPP with the family next week as I've not been since Bear Wood opened. But popped into BZ today as have membership and was in Bristol shopping in the morning. The staff there (well the lady I spoke to) was quite happy to answer questions about the zoo closing and so on. There was actually quite a few people there today, many saying how they are going to miss it and a lot of staff were talking to people. It was nice to see such interactions going on between staff and guests and obviously people asking about the animals and what was staying and going.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

meaning WPP will probably be the only Zoo not to have Meerkats!

Linton Zoo is another outlier in this regard. That said, I very much suspect they'll end up having meerkats at WP *somewhere* even once the current exhibit is gone.

Can't say I much like the prospect of what little bird collection is currently present at WP (within the Walked Garden) but I can't say I'm surprised....

 

[Pertinax]

I popped along to Bristol Zoo today and was chatting to someone there (staff), they said that only 3 mammals had been confirmed to move to Wild Place. Gorilla's, Red Panda's & Blue Eyed Black Lemurs. They said possibly the Crowned Lemurs may move as well. They also said some of the endangered reptiles and fish would be moving as well, as they are going to get rid of the Walled Garden at WPP and replace it with an animal hospital, visitor centre and this is where the Reptiles and Fish will be, but it will only be a select few.

The Gorilla exhibit at WPP will be where the old Wolf exhibit was. Okapi will return to the collection, but after one died, they were left with one so it was deemed best to move it to another collection. The keeper said Okapi don't do well with noise so with a lot of the building to be done in and around their exhibit at WPP, it was thought best to bring them back when the phase one build is complete. They will be back for 2024 however, but not likely before then.

I asked about some of the Twilight World animals and was told the majority had already moved on.

The keeper at BZ implied the opening of WPP as BZ will not be until the summer 2024, and that staff from BZ were hoping to move over.

The Lions are also going to another collection later in the year she said, and not to WPP.

With the Walled Garden being removed at WPP, Meerkats would most likely leave the collection meaning WPP will probably be the only Zoo not to have Meerkats!

Gorillas Red Pandas and Lemurs will also not leave the Bristol site until 2024, so it means that building at BZ is unlikely to commence before 2024 when the animals have all moved on.

Hope the above is of interest and may answer some questions people have. I'm temped to visit WPP with the family next week as I've not been since Bear Wood opened. But popped into BZ today as have membership and was in Bristol shopping in the morning. The staff there (well the lady I spoke to) was quite happy to answer questions about the zoo closing and so on. There was actually quite a few people there today, many saying how they are going to miss it and a lot of staff were talking to people. It was nice to see such interactions going on between staff and guests and obviously people asking about the animals and what was staying and going.

Very interesting, certainly answers at least some questions about the future. So no Lions(as they already have them, I personally think that's a mistake) but Okapi will return- that is good news at least. As TLD mentions, the bird aviaries in the walled garden will presumably disappear if its being repurposed. Perhaps they will reappear elsewhere?. But from memory there are very few other existing buildings/substantial sheltered structures on the site as a base for that sort of construction. Its good too that staff at BZ are engaging with visitors to answer a lot of their questions about the changes.

 

[gentle lemur]

I wonder if some of the wooden structures at Bristol may be disassembled, moved to Wild Place and then reassembled, perhaps with the aviaries from the walled garden. This would be good 'green' publicity and allow at least some of bird collection to be on view for the new opening. Perhaps the same could be done with the Amphibian Ark and the netted flamingo enclosure.
I expect that will find a way to fit a cheap and cheerful meerkat exhibit into their plans

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I tried to find the latest financials on the Society and the latest annual statement is from 2020:
https://bristolzoo.org.uk/cmsassets/documents/BCWEZSL-Accounts-2020.pdf

ATTENDANCE: Total attendance at 217,768 (paid: 126,533) in 2020 against 512.934 (paid 323,387) in 2019 for Bristol Zoo, whereas for Wild Place figures stood at 206,967 (paid: 111,749) in 2020 against 317,031 (paid: 175,252) in 2019.

Attendance at BZ had been 58% (61%) down and WP 35% (36%) down in 2020 on 2019 (paid) attendance. Another indicator income BZ GBP1.7mio (2019: GBP 3.4mio) against WP GBP1,3mio (2019: GBP 1,4mio).

INCOME/EXPENDITURE:
It is worth noting that the Society operated at a loss in 2020 due in large part to CoVid and lockdown restrictions compared to 2019. Income was at GBP10,460mio against Expenditure at GBP10,717. In 2019 income amounted to GBP12,332mio against Expenditure at GBP11,595mio.
End of year, the Society ended up a GBP257,000 in financial losses overall in 2020 versus a net gain of GBP 737,000 in 2019.

The Society received a considerable sum in monies (GBP 0.5mio) and 67 staff members were put on the furlough scheme. The Society won a business insurance claim on loss of income/profits (GBP 2,5mio, payable in 2 installments, one in 2020, the other in 2021). There is a note somewhere that later on some 50 reducancies ensued down the line (could not retrieve that just now, but I did read this somewhere in the text here or elsewhere).

LOANS AND LIABILITIES:
The Society operated on 3 loan facilities totalling GBP1.62mio as well as a regular overdraft facility of GBP0.5mio plus a additional overdraft cover of GBP 5mio with their banking partners (a further unused overdraft of GBP 5mio was due by May 2021 - unused in 2020) with securities over the land and buildings at Bristol Zoo Gardens. At the end of year they had breached 2 of those convenants on the bank loans.

Following on year new terms were renegotiated in 2021 and now a revolving credit facilitiy at GBP10mio and a bank overdraft of GBP0.5 plus the pre-existing 3 bank loans are in place and fall due by June 2024.


NOTA BENE: Now the above figures are for the moment just my personal and few picks from a relatively quick overview and by no means full nor exhaustive. No, I did not look at the general state of the parent company, creditors/debtors and investment portfolio nor securities or social capital or the overall (new) company set up NHC (Natural History Consortium).

What it does do is probably signal why suddenly that time frame of June 2024 becomes more relevant.

I expect that the new Annual Report 2021 becomes available before the end of the first Quarter 2022.


I do encourage some of our professionally employed auditors to look at these financials as well. They might be able to find a few clues and signs that I failed to pinpoint just now.

 

[DesertRhino150]

Looking at the species listed both on the Wild Place website and Zootierliste and comparing it to the known species list for the new Bristol Zoo, it seems that several of the birds currently in the Walled Garden aviaries (Visayan tarictic hornbill, Philippine cockatoo, Socorro dove, pink pigeon and Sumatran laughingthrush) will be housed in the Conservation Breeding Centre, so I imagine they will remain at the zoo - presumably moving off-display while the building takes place.