Britain’s tiger kings

J C

J C

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5+ year member
Just a reminder the new Ross kemp show , Britain’s tiger kings is on ITV Tuesday night a look at the uk’s private big cat keeps which I’m sure will generate much chat so here’s a thread to start
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
For the same reason as private ownership of primates, I believe these animals should be within zoos, well run private captive breeding centres or sanctuaries.
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I disagree strongly. I can see no objection to any animal being kept well, whoever the titular ‘owner’. We have adequate welfare legislation in this country, as well as licensing for dangerous species.
I’m not advocating primates or big cats being kept in people’s houses as pets, a role for which they are clearly unsuited. However, there are many primate keepers out there whose enclosures, care and enrichment provision are of a high standard and contribute towards the ex situ insurance populations of those species
 
FBBird said:
I disagree strongly. I can see no objection to any animal being kept well, whoever the titular ‘owner’. We have adequate welfare legislation in this country, as well as licensing for dangerous species.
I’m not advocating primates or big cats being kept in people’s houses as pets, a role for which they are clearly unsuited. However, there are many primate keepers out there whose enclosures, care and enrichment provision are of a high standard and contribute towards the ex situ insurance populations of those species
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Strongly but respectfully disagree.

I'm sure there is adequate welfare legislation and liscensing for dangerous species but I firmly disagree with the practice based on principle.

My view is coloured by what is happening here in Brazil with powerful lobbying groups who are currently lobbying the Bolsonaro administration to reverse laws on private ownership of endangered species which will severely impact conservation and set efforts back here by about 30 years.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Strongly but respectfully disagree.

I'm sure there is adequate welfare legislation and liscensing for dangerous species but I firmly disagree with the practice based on principle.

My view is coloured by what is happening here in Brazil with powerful lobbying groups who are currently lobbying the Bolsonaro administration to reverse laws on private ownership of endangered species which will severely impact conservation and set efforts back here by about 30 years.
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We will have to agree to disagree. Private ownership of endangered species doesn’t have to involve depleting wild populations. Some examples:
*the Nene has actually been down graded from Endangered, and has a huge captive population, largely in private hands
*Edwards’ Pheasant, believed extinct in the wild, also has a large self sustaining captive population, largely in private hands, currently being drawn on for reintroduction in its native Vietnam
*numbers of endangered fish and amphibian species are maintained by private breeders
In each of these cases, private breeders are reducing the pressure on zoo accommodation.
And yes, I have personal involvement here, as a private aviculturist with a few near threatened species.
 
FBBird said:
We will have to agree to disagree. Private ownership of endangered species doesn’t have to involve depleting wild populations. Some examples:
*the Nene has actually been down graded from Endangered, and has a huge captive population, largely in private hands
*Edwards’ Pheasant, believed extinct in the wild, also has a large self sustaining captive population, largely in private hands, currently being drawn on for reintroduction in its native Vietnam
*numbers of endangered fish and amphibian species are maintained by private breeders
In each of these cases, private breeders are reducing the pressure on zoo accommodation.
And yes, I have personal involvement here, as a private aviculturist with a few near threatened species.
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Yes, I suppose so.

I would agree that private ownership some taxa has helped with ex-situ conservation and as I've said before on this forum I dont disagree with well legislated ownership of endangered birds, freshwater fish and amphibians and reptiles.

That said, I do not think there is a substitute for captive breeding programes at zoos and private captive breeding programes for the taxa mentioned above.

However, when it comes to mammals such as large or small carnivores and primates (amongst others) I do oppose private ownership because I believe it is drastically different from the examples mentioned above and also because of personal involvement with endangered and critically endangered species as a conservation biologist.
 
pipaluk said:
Having read Ross Kemp's anti zoo comments, I won't be bothering to watch his series!! The less watch it the better!!
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I wouldn't watch it anyway as I didn't really like his previous journalism on conflict and crime anyway which I found to be very clichéd / cheesy, lowest common denominator and frankly irritating.

I dont really like documentaries on serious topics presented by former soap opera stars.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Yes, I suppose so.

I would agree that private ownership some taxa has helped with ex-situ conservation and as I've said before on this forum I dont disagree with well legislated ownership of endangered birds, freshwater fish and amphibians and reptiles.

That said, I do not think there is a substitute for captive breeding programes at zoos and private captive breeding programes for the taxa mentioned above.

However, when it comes to mammals such as large or small carnivores and primates (amongst others) I do oppose private ownership because I believe it is drastically different from the examples mentioned above and also because of personal involvement with endangered and critically endangered species as a conservation biologist.
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I do not believe there is a difference, and rather resent the inference that as a conservation biologist, you hold some kind of moral high ground.
 
FBBird said:
I do not believe there is a difference, and rather resent the inference that as a conservation biologist, you hold some kind of moral high ground.
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I do believe there is typically a very marked qualitative difference.

I wasn't inferring that actually, so that was misconstrued / projected on your part.

The reason I mentioned this was not to signal me occupying a "moral high ground" but rather to explain one of the reasons why I am opposed to private ownership of taxa like primates.

As I mentioned in my previous comments I respectfully disagree with your points and am not looking for a debate or to suggest that others are wrong in their opinions.
 
Oh if only John Aspinall were alive, I would’ve happily watched to see him have a “debate” with Grant!

However I’d imagine the programme would have to be renamed “Britain’s Gorilla King!”;)
 
Panthera1981 said:
Oh if only John Aspinall were alive, I would happily watched to see him have a “debate” with Grant!

However I’d imagine the programme would have to be renamed “Britain’s Gorilla King!”;)
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I would imagine that Ross Kemp wouldn't look too out of place knuckle walking through those straw filled enclosures.
 
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