British badger bombardment

[DavidBrown]

How are my Zoochat friends in the UK feeling about this badger cull controversy? I have never seen a European badger, but they seem like magnificent animals and they live large in the imagination of American children through "Wind In The Willows", etc.

Mass killings of the badgers seem like they would be analogous to mass shooting of bald eagles in the U.S., although the direct parallel would be shooting of bison that wander out of Yellowstone because they are thought (possibly wrongly) to infect cattle with a disease.

Badger cull sets off a fight in Britain - The Washington Post

 

[Pertinax]

Too Many Badgers?

The Badger population in the UK seems to be at an all-time high, they are very,very common animals nowadays and in many areas live at high densities. Quite why they have increased so dramatically is a bit of a mystery- 'over-protection' could be one reason- they certainly aren't protected because of any vulnerable status as are most other protected species.

While certainly still a big favourite with many people and popularly regarded as harmless and 'cute', their current very high populations can, and do, create a lot of nuisance in the countryside and particularly in the farming communities. Their digging activities can undermine buildings and land, they sometimes damage crops and will predate smaller domestic animals such as poultry. Some people think they are also responsible for the huge decline in our Hedgehog numbers, a species that seems to have declined in direct proportion to the increase in Badgers. So apart from the T.B. issue, there are several others involved here too.

 

[IanRRobinson]

I wouldn't presume to speak for all UK zoochatters, but this one is very, very cross. I really find it hard to imagine that an ancient denizen of the British countryside can have become such a serious TB vector. An introduced species, maybe.

It also fits in with a dismaying pattern of policy-making: the destruction of Common Buzzard nests; the unwillingness to extend vicarious liability for the destruction of raptors and their nests to English and Welsh landowners, as has already been done in Scotland; and the approval of a substantial airport expansion near Dungeness, one of the most important wildlife sites in SE England.

These are worrying days to be pro-wildlife in England..

 

[chizlit]

It seems to be a man made problem that the badgers have to pay for. I'm really surprised that there hasn't been more public uproar about it, but so far it seems the killers are getting away with it. At the end of the scheme I'm sure they will be no further forward with stopping TB. Maybe they can try to find a link with foxes and deer too so they can wipe them out as well.

 

[bongorob]

I was against the cull at first, but I now agree with the points made by Pertinax.

The estimated badger population in the UK is 800,000 to 1,000,000. If they are responsible for damage to other wildlife I would say they need to be controlled.

I do not believe in any connection between badgers and bovine TB, having read this morning about New Zealand cattle having bovine TB. There are no badgers in New Zealand.

 

[IanRRobinson]

Where did you get that population estimate from Rob? That figure is WAY over anything that I can find.

Is the badger population out of control? - Badgergate

I am deeply concerned at the idea of controlling predators where these are native, protected, species. I can accept that the extinction of Grey Wolves many centuries ago has led to an imbalance in our native ecosystems, but culling the Eurasian Badger is the thin end of a very thick wedge.

As I have said, we have already seen the illegal and undisclosed granting of licences to destroy Common Buzzard nests, amidst continued persecution of raptors. Parts of the Peak District have seen their populations of Northern Goshawk and Peregrine Falcon exterminated.

If Badgers are the MAJOR vector of bovine TB then I accept that there may be a case for a cull. However, there are powerful vested interests in this odd little country of ours that still look back to the 18th century. It is vitally important that we do not pander to them.

 

[Daniel]

I am not from UK.

But just to clarify: The connection between badgers and TB in cattle in UK is scientifically proven. Yet, it is still unclear if killing the badgers might lead to a reduction or an increase in TB cases, as the decreased population density will lead to increased badger home ranges with possibly higher transmission rates. Besides there are other ways of controlling TB in cattle.

Edit (Response to IanRR): Even though there is a connection between badgers and TB in cattle. Badgers are not the only source.

 

[TARZAN]

I wouldn't presume to speak for all UK zoochatters, but this one is very, very cross. I really find it hard to imagine that an ancient denizen of the British countryside can have become such a serious TB vector. An introduced species, maybe.

It also fits in with a dismaying pattern of policy-making: the destruction of Common Buzzard nests; the unwillingness to extend vicarious liability for the destruction of raptors and their nests to English and Welsh landowners, as has already been done in Scotland; and the approval of a substantial airport expansion near Dungeness, one of the most important wildlife sites in SE England.

These are worrying days to be pro-wildlife in England..

And none of these actions taken by this government I find the least surprising, it is lead by a man who is desperate to legalise and return to fox hunting with dogs after taking years to get this practice stopped and made illegal, along with this supporter, Miss Clarrisa Dickson Wright, a person with a criminal record for participating in hare coursing with dogs after it had been made illegal to do so.

 

[bongorob]

The population estimate was printed in a paper about 3-4 weeks ago, I can't remember which one it was, sorry.

 

[Monty]

I was against the cull at first, but I now agree with the points made by Pertinax.

The estimated badger population in the UK is 800,000 to 1,000,000. If they are responsible for damage to other wildlife I would say they need to be controlled.

I do not believe in any connection between badgers and bovine TB, having read this morning about New Zealand cattle having bovine TB. There are no badgers in New Zealand.

Native species can do very well in a farming system and overpopulation can always be a problem. In NZ TB is spread by possums introduced from Australia. Possum densities in the country in Australia are not extremely high and I have not heard of them spreading TB here, but they do in NZ. I presume it is similar with badgers. At high populations they spread TB amongst themselves and then pass it onto other species. If this is what is happening lowering the population density will mean the remaining Badgers are healthier, and will therefore not have TB to spread.

 

[Pertinax]

One indication of population levels is always the number of Road Kills seen. For Badgers these have increased(IMO) enormously in the last twenty years or so. On a sixty mile car journey on rural roads nowadays its possible to count a dozen or more dead Badgers whereas they were much less evident before that. Sometimes I've counted half a dozen or more in just a few miles. On the other hand, dead hedgehogs flattened on the road are now a very rare sight, where once it was a comparatively common one.

I don't think culling them for T.B. will have much effect on the T.B. levels in cattle. Possibly Badger populations do need to be controlled somewhat for other reasons though.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

One indication of population levels is always the number of Road Kills seen. For Badgers these have increased(IMO) enormously in the last twenty years or so. On a sixty mile car journey on rural roads nowadays its possible to count a dozen or more dead Badgers whereas they were much less evident before that. Sometimes I've counted half a dozen or more in just a few miles. On the other hand, dead hedgehogs flattened on the road are now a very rare sight, where once it was a comparatively common one.

Quite - it has been about 2 years since the last time I saw a roadkilled hedgehog, whereas I have seen three roadkilled badgers since the start of this year. At least, two of them were definitely roadkilled; I have a suspicion the third *might* have been illegally poisoned and deliberately placed, as there were no signs of injury or internal bleeding, and I found it by the side of the road leading through farmland to my girlfriend's house *just* before calving season.

The really interesting - and possibly positive - fact regarding roadkill is that I have seen about half a dozen roadkilled water voles since the start of the year too, and rather more than that alive.

 

[IanRRobinson]

A recent piece on the issue.

BBC News - Is a badger cull the only answer to bovine TB?

 

[chizlit]

One indication of population levels is always the number of Road Kills seen. For Badgers these have increased(IMO) enormously in the last twenty years or so. On a sixty mile car journey on rural roads nowadays its possible to count a dozen or more dead Badgers whereas they were much less evident before that. Sometimes I've counted half a dozen or more in just a few miles. On the other hand, dead hedgehogs flattened on the road are now a very rare sight, where once it was a comparatively common one.

I don't think culling them for T.B. will have much effect on the T.B. levels in cattle. Possibly Badger populations do need to be controlled somewhat for other reasons though.

Come to Birmingham if you want to see roadkill hedgehogs on a daily basis, it's a very sad sight.

 

[Brum]

Come to Birmingham if you want to see roadkill hedgehogs on a daily basis, it's a very sad sight.

You say that but I haven't seen a hedgehog (dead or alive) in about two years. I have seen two roadkill badgers in that time though and I live in Northfield, hardly out in the sticks.

 

[chizlit]

You say that but I haven't seen a hedgehog (dead or alive) in about two years. I have seen two roadkill badgers in that time though and I live in Northfield, hardly out in the sticks.

Hmmm strange, I guess I must be unlucky to see them, but not as unlucky as the poor hogs, I'm a delivery driver so I cover lots of ground so maybe have more chance to see things. I also see plenty of dead foxes and the occasional badger, but there are mainly on the outskirts of Brum.

 

[Brum]

Hmmm strange, I guess I must be unlucky to see them, but not as unlucky as the poor hogs, I'm a delivery driver so I cover lots of ground so maybe have more chance to see things. I also see plenty of dead foxes and the occasional badger, but there are mainly on the outskirts of Brum.

Well as I said, I live in Northfield and two dead badgers have been seen by me within a couple of hundred yards of my house. This is basically in the middle of a housing estate with a few large green spaces, i.e. Sennelly's Park and Ley Hill Park. Quite where the badgers are coming from is another question entirely but does explain why I don't see hedgehogs anymore.

 

[dean]

I have seen a lot of dead hegegogs this summer in the 5 miles or so maximum I travel each day 3 in my own small village, I used to feed 3 every night but I think some of the local ones are "my" animals it is the only species that really upsets me, rabbits are such apest I don't worry about them, Dead foxes are rare on our roads as they are rather narrow twisting lanes really, with out footpaths. I saw 3 dead badgers earlier in the year and no of 2 local setts.

Whilest i don't like killing things, we have upset the balance of nature so much that if an animal has top preditor status, and no natural enemies then I think to give other species a chance we need to control numbers.

We used to have a lot of Kestrals on the power lines along the roads here but we hardly see any, though we do see buzzards on a daily bases, and as they are the bigger bird and can feed on carrion as well as the food that the kestrals also eat, it's not hard to see how a species can be pushed out.

I counted a group of 17 magpies last winter on a local ex farm I maintain the garden for, we used to have yellow hammers and turtle doves too, but the magpies continually raided the nests of the doves who lived in a hawthorn edge beside the tennis court, now we have magpies and jays and other corvids instead. Mind you we have alot of green and greater spotted woodpeckers too and grey squiralls.

sorry in advance my spell check is not working on the zoo chat site today.

 

[chizlit]

Now rabbits are a puzzle to me, I grew up in the countryside and saw plenty on a daily basis both dead and alive, now when returning back to the countryside I see very few eating on the verges like in the old days, have they been wiped out by farmers or something else. I know they are not rare, but I certainly see fewer of them.

I have seen a lot of dead hegegogs this summer in the 5 miles or so maximum I travel each day 3 in my own small village, I used to feed 3 every night but I think some of the local ones are "my" animals it is the only species that really upsets me, rabbits are such apest I don't worry about them, Dead foxes are rare on our roads as they are rather narrow twisting lanes really, with out footpaths. I saw 3 dead badgers earlier in the year and no of 2 local setts.

Whilest i don't like killing things, we have upset the balance of nature so much that if an animal has top preditor status, and no natural enemies then I think to give other species a chance we need to control numbers.

We used to have a lot of Kestrals on the power lines along the roads here but we hardly see any, though we do see buzzards on a daily bases, and as they are the bigger bird and can feed on carrion as well as the food that the kestrals also eat, it's not hard to see how a species can be pushed out.

I counted a group of 17 magpies last winter on a local ex farm I maintain the garden for, we used to have yellow hammers and turtle doves too, but the magpies continually raided the nests of the doves who lived in a hawthorn edge beside the tennis court, now we have magpies and jays and other corvids instead. Mind you we have alot of green and greater spotted woodpeckers too and grey squiralls.

sorry in advance my spell check is not working on the zoo chat site today.

 

[Shorts]

One indication of population levels is always the number of Road Kills seen. For Badgers these have increased(IMO) enormously in the last twenty years or so.

Yes, but traffic has also increased enormously (countrywide) in the last twenty or so years. I'm not saying you're conclusion's right or wrong but who's to say the roadkill increase isn't completely in proportion with rises in traffic levels? That said, I've noticed more badger roadkill also.

Additionally (absolutely no disrespect intended) individual/human observations are often unscientific/unreliable (and that's without any sub-conscious effects occurring, i.e. "there's a lot of Mercedes* on the road nowadays" will potentially lead to noticing and remembering more Mercedes.

*That's the car not the ex-Edinburgh bear.