British Isles Cup Redux - FINALS - Dublin/Fota vs Bristol/Wildplace

[TeaLovingDave]

So, the first match of the finals is upon us.....

First, a pre-amble going over the logistics of how the finals will work, cross-posted to the central thread for the British Isles Cup Redux:

I've been mulling over the best way to operate the match categories for this one throughout much of the last few weeks, and finally hit on the idea to have each match comprise TWO categories to promote more debate and discussion. Obviously it would be unfair for any given collection to be presented with a category they had already faced - no matter the result - so after the final lineup was more or less certain, with the only undetermined factor being the progression of Colchester or ZSL, I calculated the pool of uncontended categories for every possible match (including alternate pools for whether Colchester or ZSL progressed) and then randomly selected two categories from each pool.

Furthermore, as this will make weighing the various factors involved rather more complex, and render a 3-vote system even less suited for the purpose than it has seemed to be so far, I have decided that for the coming nine matches we will be playing with a 5-vote system; it will still be impossible to vote for a perfect tie, but this will allow much more subtle judgements to be made. Hopefully some people who have been sitting the game out so far due to feeling the voting system was too simplistic may be lured out of hiding of course, a voting system such as this will mean that overtly biased votes will represent even more of a potential imbalance than before - especially if participation levels remain low - and therefore this all comes with one important caveat:

If one gives a 5-0 vote, you MUST provide appropriate justification for this in-thread. Any such votes which are either unexplained, or break the rules of fair play in some fashion, will be void.

To provide more chance for people to focus on the discussion at hand without diverted attention - and because there are 9 matches in the finals, meaning running multiple matches at once is more unwieldy - only one match will run at a time.

Ensure you read through the above thoroughly before voting

So, the two categories we are getting to grips with this time round are CARNIVORES and AFRICA. Judge them how you will, but you *must* consider both categories in your judgement - and I strongly urge people to post the reasoning behind their votes, both for the sake of promoting discussion and (hopefully) more prolific voting, and to ensure as much transparency as possible.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Great that you added more point options @TeaLovingDave as it adds a lot more necessary nuance to voting.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Great that you added more point options @TeaLovingDave as it adds a lot more necessary nuance to voting.

It's great as long as people actually make use of that necessary nuance and (hopefully) more people take part and as long as we don't have people bending the rules in the name of personal bias.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

It's great as long as people actually make use of that necessary nuance and (hopefully) more people take part and as long as we don't have people bending the rules in the name of personal bias.

It is quite a difficult one to decide, this particular poll...

Again, we are prioritizing mammals or is African fauna being taken as a whole and including Madagascar and the surrounding islands ?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

The definitions of the categories have not changed, only the number in play within a match.

As such, the geographic category of "Africa" applies to Madagascar along with the mainland, and encompasses the entire fauna and flora of the continent - not merely mammals.

And just as a reminder, the "Carnivores" category applies to the mammalian family Carnivora, not carnivorous animals in general.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

The definitions of the categories have not changed, only the number in play within a match.

As such, the geographic category of "Africa" applies to Madagascar along with the mainland, and encompasses the entire fauna and flora of the continent - not merely mammals.

And just as a reminder, the "Carnivores" category applies to the mammalian family Carnivora, not carnivorous animals in general.

Then for me it has to be Bristol but a fairly close one for Dublin / Fota.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Bristol / wild place for its greater amount of African and Malagasy mammal, bird and reptile species which are of conservation concern and a greater conservation output both ex-situ and in-situ.

Mammals: Lowland gorilla, Gelada, crowned lemur, ruffed belted lemur, red-bellied lemur, Alaotran gentle lemur, ring tailed lemur, aye-aye, Livingstone's fruitbat,Malagasy giant jumping rat, blind mole rat, meerkat, yellow mongoose, cheetah, pygmy hippo, okapi, eland, zebra, giraffe, red river hog,

Birds: Greater flamingo, African penguin, love birds (possibly more too).

Reptile : Common chameleon, turqouise dwarf gecko, yellow headed day gecko, standing's day gecko, West African dwarf crocodile, Malagasy tree boa, African pancake tortoise, Egyptian tortoise (possibly a lot more too).

Amphibians : Golden mantella frog (possibly more too).

Inverts : Giant African land snail, purple jewell beetles (possibly a lot more too).

*Some weak points of Bristol would be not as many monkey species as Dublin / Fota and possibly slightly lower on ungulates but then it has more African / Malagasy species across all taxa so it gains a higher vote IMO.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Well, factors such as exhibit quality, conservation success and involvement in breeding programmes are all very important, but given people are often fixated on the bare species numbers.....

AFRICA

Mammals - Bristol and Wildplace have 23 eligible taxa, Dublin and Fota have 24 eligible taxa
Birds - Bristol and Wildplace have 16 eligible taxa, Dublin and Fota have 7 eligible taxa
Reptiles - Bristol and Wildplace have 14 eligible taxa, Dublin and Fota have 7 eligible taxa
Amphibians - Bristol and Wildplace have 1 eligible taxon, Dublin and Fota have 2 eligible taxa
Fish and Invertebrates - *noncommittal shrug* the aquarium and invertebrate house at Bristol certainly have rather large collections of African taxa, but I couldn't give numbers.

CARNIVORES

Bristol and Wildplace have 12 eligible taxa, Dublin and Fota have 12 eligible taxa.

So on the grounds of species count alone, it is reasonably close but Bristol/Wildplace have a definite edge over their Irish rivals nonetheless. Hoping people will join the thread in earnest soon enough and make more comprehensive arguments on both sides, taking into account all the other factors I cited.

I *would* be very interested to hear why @nczoofan has confidently given Dublin and Fota a hard win, mind you

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I *would* be very interested to hear why @nczoofan has confidently given Dublin and Fota a hard win, mind you

Still wondering care to discuss why you think it is so obviously a Dublin win @nczoofan ?

 

[Brum]

3-2 to Bristol for me, the small stuff gives it the edge in my opinion. The Irish duo look fantastic but Aye-aye and Wolverine are worth the extra point. If only Dublin had some stuff that wasn't megafauna, they could have easily have won.

 

[pipaluk]

3-2 to Bristol for me, the small stuff gives it the edge in my opinion. The Irish duo look fantastic but Aye-aye and Wolverine are worth the extra point. If only Dublin had some stuff that wasn't megafauna, they could have easily have won.

Can't argue too much with this. I think the addition of Madagascar to the Africa category and the opening of Bear Wood have given Bristol a slight advantage, without those it would probably have been 3-2 the other way!

 

[pipaluk]

Looks like this one is done and it looks like a fair enough outcome as most are in agreement, looks like wild place has helped get Bristol over the line! Significant given the news this week.