British Isles Cup Redux - FINALS - Whitley vs Bristol/Wildplace

Whitley vs Bristol/Wildplace - MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS and GRASSLANDS AND DESERTS

  • Whitley 5/0 Bristol

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Whitley 4/1 Bristol

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Whitley 3/2 Bristol

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Bristol 3/2 Whitley

    Votes: 6 66.7%

  • Bristol 4/1 Whitley

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Bristol 5/0 Whitley

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
TeaLovingDave

TeaLovingDave

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A pair of organisations which have both been faring pretty strongly thus far come head to head, in a match which I hope prompts plenty of discussion and voting! The two topics at hand this time round are as follows: MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS and GRASSLANDS AND DESERTS.

I'll be interested to see what people make of this one!
 
Whitley is stronger on the grassland and deserts for two taxonomic groups (birds and mammals) and biogeographic regions (Australia, Africa, Neotropics and North America) IMO:

Mammals : Three banded armadillo, six banded armadillo, Brazilian guinea pig, red kangaroo, dusky padmelon, coati, short beaked echidna, slender tailed meerkat, lesser tenrec, Brazilian tapir, black rhino, collared peccary, red river hog, Northern giraffe, Chapman's zebra, Hartman's zebra, black widebeest, African lion, cheetah, Hamydryas baboon.

Birds: Greater roadrunner, red necked ostrich, Princess of Wales parakeet, budgie, bush thick-knee, Bourke's parrot, crowned crane, sarus crane, marabou stork, crested pigeon, emu, guinea fowl, Humboldt's penguin.

Bristol is stronger for this habitat category primarily with their reptiles and inverts:

Reptiles: Pancake tortoise, Egyptian tortoise, gila monster.
 
Quite a few of the species you list are neither grassland/desert species, nor fall into the miscellaneous mammals category.... and I suspect you are defaulting to the incomplete "species listed on the websites" method again, too!

Incidentally, it somewhat amuses me that (having previously argued that conservation factors are important enough that you gave Jersey the win for hoofstock when they hold only a single taxon, over a collection with dozens of hoofstock species) now that Jersey has dropped out of the contest you've regressed to purely listing numbers of species :p
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Quite a few of the species you list are neither grassland/desert species, nor fall into the miscellaneous mammals category.... and I suspect you are defaulting to the incomplete "species listed on the websites" method again, too!

Incidentally, it somewhat amuses me that (having previously argued that conservation factors are important enough that you gave Jersey the win for hoofstock when they hold only a single taxon, over a collection with dozens of hoofstock species) now that Jersey has dropped out of the contest you've regressed to purely listing numbers of species :p
Click to expand...

I was only going purely on the biome category actually and not the micellaneous mammals :p

Which species do not at least partially occur in grasslands or deserts ?

Well that was because of Jersey's in-situ and ex-situ conservation work with the pygmy hog which outshined the competition.
 
Now THIS is a tough one... As some of you know, I'm a fan of both institutions/trusts... I need to think about this.

Both collections have some great miscellaneous mammals:
WPT highlights - Short beaked echidna, Hoffman's Sloth, Swamp Wallaby, Grey Kangaroo, Brazilian Cavy, Dusky Pademelon, and many more
BZS highlights - Eastern Quoll, Kowari, Ground Cuscus, Jumping Rat, Tree Kangaroo, Livingstones fruit bat, and many more...

BZS *might* just pinch it here... But I'm not sure, I need to sleep on it.

I'd say it's somewhat "balanced" in the other categories, but again... I need to think on that.

I shall update you all on my further thoughts before the 18th... :p
 
I think Bristol narrowly wins misc mammals , but Whitley wins on grassland /desert mammals, it just depends whether Bristol can wipe out that advantage with Birds and reptiles? I'm not really sure at the moment, perhaps someone could show lists of which birds & reptiles would count for this category please
 
I am trying to produce a list of non duplicate mammals and birds. At the moment I am on 18 for Whitley and just 1 (Eland) for the Bristol zoos, I reckon Grasslands may well be a crushing win for Whitley!
 
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pipaluk said:
I am trying to produce a list of non duplicate mammals and birds. At the moment I am on 18 for Whitley and just 1 (Eland) for the Bristol zoos, I reckon Grasslands may well be a crushing win for Whitley!
Click to expand...

Bristol have lowland tapir which are also native to the cerrado ecosystem here in Brazil which is grassland habitat.

Visayan warty pigs also inhabit grassland in the Philippines.

Six banded armadillos occur in the grassland ecosystems of the Cerrado in Brazil and the Pampas in Argentina.

The yellow mongoose can be found in arid grasslands in Angola and South Africa.

The meerkat is found in arid grasslands in parts of its range.

If we are including Wild Place then there are also cheetah, giraffe, zebra and the gelada (they inhabit montane grasslands in Ethiopia).
 
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This is indeed tricky... Wild Place helps Bristol avoid a mammals wash out for Grasslands & Deserts, though as pointed out many of these species are duplicates. Not entirely sure where we are putting scrub as a habitat, but giving both the benefit of the doubt given that grasslands and scrub grade into each other, unique highlights in this category (both contenders have more, just highlights) from herps:

Bristol: Amethystine python, Aruba Island rattlesnake, Mediterranean chameleon.

Whitley: Spider tortoise, Regal horned lizard.

Close, but the Komodo might help Whitley if one adds it to the highlight list... I think Bristol has more reptiles in this category overall but some of them are rather difficult to call when drawing a habitat line. I'm also not sure if Paignton's highlights above are actually on show (other than the Komodo) whereas Bristol's are. I'll think about birds...

Misc mammals is a strong category in both zoos, though Bristol's edges it for me - without the echidna Whitley really loses ground whereas Bristol's is less reliant on a single species to hold it (though what a species!). Not sure how to call this one...
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
Bristol have lowland tapir which are also native to the cerrado ecosystem here in Brazil which is grassland habitat.

Visayan warty pigs also inhabit grassland in the Philippines.

Six banded armadillos occur in the grassland ecosystems of the Cerrado in Brazil and the Pampas in Argentina.

The yellow mongoose can be found in arid grasslands in Angola and South Africa.

The meerkat is found in arid grasslands in parts of its range.

If we are including Wild Place then there are also cheetah, giraffe, zebra and the gelada (they inhabit montane grasslands in Ethiopia).
Click to expand...
Please read my post again! I said I was ignoring duplicates, Whitley has virtually all the species you listed anyway so I ignored them in my 18-1, although I didn't count Gelada. But then Bristol no longer have the tapir, so it is 18-2 without duplicates and there are a few birds I have not checked for Whitley which will probably widen the margin!
 
pipaluk said:
Please read my post again! I said I was ignoring duplicates, Whitley has virtually all the species you listed anyway so I ignored them in my 18-1, although I didn't count Gelada. But then Bristol no longer have the tapir, so it is 18-2 without duplicates and there are a few birds I have not checked for Whitley which will probably widen the margin!
Click to expand...

Ok , calm down ;)
 
This really is a tough one. Think I might go 3-2 Bristol on the misc. mammals front, but Whitley have the better grassland selection which interests me less. It's a painful choice, especially considering Paignton house my favourite miscellaneous mammal in a UK zoo, but Bristol for the win this round.
 
Having had a chance to think, I'll stick with 3-2 Bristol - the thoughts I would have made were covered by other users :)
 
I reckon it is a comfortable 4-1 Whitley on grassland/desert so for me it comes down to how much better Bristol is on misc mammals.
Is Bristol worth a 4-1 to make it even and convince me to switch on the basis I am more interested in the misc mammals like @Brum?
If someone can convince me I may switch 3-2 Bristol overall.
 
It is indeed a difficult choice. In grassland/desert Whitley clearly as the edge. But on Misc, I would go to Bristol, with a bonus their that I really like Tree-kangaroos. But I don't think it is enough to give the wi to Bristol. But with good argumentation, I might be convinced that Bristol has the edge.
 
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