British People, Passports, and Brexit

ZooBinh said:
Just wondering to you Brits out there: what is the cause of Brexit?
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As you ask and as you’re interested here’s my view of the cause of Brexit is thus...

There are lots of reasons why some people feel negatively about the EU, whether it be immigration, erosion of national identity, being ruled from afar, financial contributions to the EU, weak European identity, the UK is not unique in these respects. However, the UK had David Cameron and like all Tory leaders he had to deal with the large number of Europhobes that exist in the Conservative party. Riding high on his successful gamble with a Scottish independence referendum he tried to pull the same trick off with the EU in order to silence the Europhobes in the party; he failed.

Why he failed is open to debate but I see it like this… Running up to the referendum it always looked close so getting the undecided voters on side was key (staunch pro or leave voters were unlikely to change). The remain campaign often accused potential leaver voters of being racist, of course, nobody likes to think they’re racist whether they are or not, so there was a backlash,(Not dissimilar to Trump I think). In other words remain lost the vote, leave didn’t win. Unfortunately I don’t think remainers have learnt from this, a second referndom would be interesting.

No doubt others will interpret events differently.
 
Ned said:
As you ask and as you’re interested here’s my view of the cause of Brexit is thus...

There are lots of reasons why some people feel negatively about the EU, whether it be immigration, erosion of national identity, being ruled from afar, financial contributions to the EU, weak European identity, the UK is not unique in these respects. However, the UK had David Cameron and like all Tory leaders he had to deal with the large number of Europhobes that exist in the Conservative party. Riding high on his successful gamble with a Scottish independence referendum he tried to pull the same trick off with the EU in order to silence the Europhobes in the party; he failed.

Why he failed is open to debate but I see it like this… Running up to the referendum it always looked close so getting the undecided voters on side was key (staunch pro or leave voters were unlikely to change). The remain campaign often accused potential leaver voters of being racist, of course, nobody likes to think they’re racist whether they are or not, so there was a backlash,(Not dissimilar to Trump I think). In other words remain lost the vote, leave didn’t win. Unfortunately I don’t think remainers have learnt from this, a second referndom would be interesting.

No doubt others will interpret events differently.
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Sooo...….I don't really comprehend. Is Brexit good or bad? All I understand is that it seems like something America would do, and our plague is now spreading across the world, because GBR is leaving the EU.
 
ZooBinh said:
Is Brexit good or bad?
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It depends who you’re asking.

But if you look at the chaos that has engulfed British politics (a chaos which some might enjoy, but which does mean that the government does not currently have the bandwidth to focus on issues of some considerable importance...), the financial and economic uncertainty which is already kicking in, the loss of key workers which has already started, and which will only get worse.....

Then, from a zoo perspective, you think about the lack of certainty about animals moving between mainland Europe and the UK.

And you think of the meltdown which is waiting at UK points of entry.

And you look at the politicians who argued for Brexit in the first place (probably not well known in the US, so look up Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, William Rees Mogg and Nigel Farage - none of whom is a fellow with whom you’d want to be stuck in a lift).

And you do start to despair, a little.....
 
sooty mangabey said:
It depends who you’re asking.

But if you look at the chaos that has engulfed British politics (a chaos which some might enjoy, but which does mean that the government does not currently have the bandwidth to focus on issues of some considerable importance...), the financial and economic uncertainty which is already kicking in, the loss of key workers which has already started, and which will only get worse.....

Then, from a zoo perspective, you think about the lack of certainty about animals moving between mainland Europe and the UK.

And you think of the meltdown which is waiting at UK points of entry.

And you look at the politicians who argued for Brexit in the first place (probably not well known in the US, so look up Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, William Rees Mogg and Nigel Farage - none of whom is a fellow with whom you’d want to be stuck in a lift).

And you do start to despair, a little.....
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But you've got your country back, damnit!

(I'm assuming you mean Jacob, by the by. The younger anachronism, not the elder one.)
 
CGSwans said:
But you've got your country back, damnit!

(I'm assuming you mean Jacob, by the by. The younger anachronism, not the elder one.)
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And thank heavens we’re going to get our dark blue passports. The lack of these has been a major personal catastrophe over the past years.

Yes. Jacob, the loathsome politician rather than William, the loathsome journalist. They merge into a soup of reactionary idiocy....
 
sooty mangabey said:
It depends who you’re asking.

But if you look at the chaos that has engulfed British politics (a chaos which some might enjoy, but which does mean that the government does not currently have the bandwidth to focus on issues of some considerable importance...), the financial and economic uncertainty which is already kicking in, the loss of key workers which has already started, and which will only get worse.....

Then, from a zoo perspective, you think about the lack of certainty about animals moving between mainland Europe and the UK.

And you think of the meltdown which is waiting at UK points of entry.

And you look at the politicians who argued for Brexit in the first place (probably not well known in the US, so look up Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, William Rees Mogg and Nigel Farage - none of whom is a fellow with whom you’d want to be stuck in a lift).

And you do start to despair, a little.....
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The public and media coverage of Brexit has temporarily eclipsed the political and economic turmoil within the European Union. None of this has gone away. The EU in its current form is unsustainable, and will be even less so once is has lost Britain; one of its major financial contributors.

Other European countries have come dangerously close to following Britain's lead, and it is only a matter of time before they do.

When the EU implodes as a result, bedraggled Britain will will have jumped ship and swum ashore before the boat goes down, and be watching from the beach...
 
Back to the original topic, I really don't see why getting a passport is such a big deal. If I am not mistaken, yours are good for ten years as are ours in the USA. And (at least here) once you have your first one, getting a renewal one is very easy. As a foreign tourist I can tell you the biggest problem when visiting UK (from a practical standpoint) is their refusal to switch over to the Euro. Having to get both Pounds and Euros is a major pain, though even if they had gone to the Euro I suppose they would have to give it up with Brexit.

As far as zoo animals go, it will be interesting to see how Brexit affects trade between UK zoos and mainland Europe zoos.
 
Andrew Swales said:
The public and media coverage of Brexit has temporarily eclipsed the political and economic turmoil within the European Union. None of this has gone away. The EU in its current form is unsustainable, and will be even less so once is has lost Britain; one of its major financial contributors.

Other European countries have come dangerously close to following Britain's lead, and it is only a matter of time before they do.

When the EU implodes as a result, bedraggled Britain will will have jumped ship and swum ashore before the boat goes down, and be watching from the beach...
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Brexit has actually scared away people on the continent that were thinking of leaving the EU, then the chaos and slowed economic growth in the UK did the rest. From an EU perspective I am more worried about Italy and Poland, as they highlight some of the problems (though the benefits the EU has brought are still by far bigger) that are present in the EU.

I feel sorry for my British friends, but not sorry for the UK as in its current form it would have been a big pain to have in the EU with the likes of Boris Johnson and J Rees-Mogg.....
 
Who knew an offhanded comment about distance would turn into an entire thread!

For those overseas, I would suggest the Talking Politics podcast out of Cambridge. They do a lot of in depth interviews and panels regarding, well, politics. Brexit is a common topic. After mucking around in U.S. politics, they catch up with the latest in the never ending saga that is Brexit.


Andrew Swales said:
Perhaps we ought to have another referendum to let the experts decide.
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I think they call it a people's vote! :D
 
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I would like to know how much more difficult will Brexit make import of zoo animals from the UK into the EU/EEA. Because import from for example Russia means many months of hard work and huge stack of papers with stamps. Only few zoos are willing to invest money and time into such proces.
 
Buldeo said:
...After mucking around in U.S. politics, they catch up with the latest in the never ending saga that is Brexit...
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These days you could certainly spend a lot of time mucking around there! :D
If nothing else, Donald Trump is at least entertaining!
 
Terry Thomas said:
Lack of thought , plus lots of "fake news" before the vote!
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Just a tad insulting there @Terry Thomas, everybody had their own reasons for voting, and we're not all gullible idiots! I do think we should have a second referendum, the last one was a 4% split, and I'm pretty sure voters on both sides have now changed their opinion since, but then a second vote would just undermine the democratic process of the first one.

It's a mess, if we'd have remained then Europe would probably have penalised us for trying to leave, we chose to leave and now we're being penalised for leaving. It's a proper screw job! :(
 
Brum said:
Just a tad insulting there @Terry Thomas, everybody had their own reasons for voting, and we're not all gullible idiots! I do think we should have a second referendum, the last one was a 4% split, and I'm pretty sure voters on both sides have now changed their opinion since, but then a second vote would just undermine the democratic process of the first one.

It's a mess, if we'd have remained then Europe would probably have penalised us for trying to leave, we chose to leave and now we're being penalised for leaving. It's a proper screw job! :(
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Sorry you feel insulted, but if the truth had been given to the population instead of the rubbish then fewer would have voted Yes. Nothing to do with being gullible really -- without the facts how could anyone make a decision, especially one as important as that one was for UK. Do you doubt that many folks would not have voted Yes if this was not so? I agree that UK has been in a very difficult position for many years, with regard to the EU, but are you really going to better off not being part of that influential group? Without the support of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland England is going to struggle for a very long time, so I do hope that the country begins to pull together instead of falling apart. By the way, I live in Australia and only see/hear what is happening from a distance, so am no expert, just interested. My opinions are quite possibly totally wrong, and I offer them without meaning to give any insults etc.. Again --just interested!
 
@Terry Thomas no offence taken really, but as I said, if we were to have a second referendum then I reckon it will be stay rather than go. Leaving the EU has taken so long and is still not resolved, and to be honest it has just been a massive pain in the arse for the past two years. All the Leave politicians have disappeared, we've been left with May, who was a remainer, in charge (And to think Americans moan about Trump!) and she's been useless.

A lot of people voted to leave because of the free movement problem, which brought health tourism, benefit advantages etc, which drained our resources, but having "left" the EU these things haven't changed and as far as I'm concerned we should just go back, cap in hand, and with a better negotiator! Brexit has just been a massive f**k up from start to not even finish!
 
[QUOTE="Brum, post: All the Leave politicians have disappeared, [/QUOTE]

Not just the 'Leave' politicians, a certain David Cameron was the first to disappear...
The figures are pretty simple - in 2017 Britain contributed £13 billion to the EU budget (the third largest contributing country) - in 2017 Britain received £4 billion back from the EU = a net loss to the UK of £9 billion.
Clearly the EU has twice as much to loose as the UK does.
Without its third largest contributor, the EU in its current form is financially unsustainable. As it appears to be too bureaucratic and self-important to reform, implosion is inevitable.
When this happens, being outside (however uncomfortable the journey) will be far preferable to being inside.
 
Brum said:
I do think we should have a second referendum, the last one was a 4% split, and I'm pretty sure voters on both sides have now changed their opinion since, but then a second vote would just undermine the democratic process of the first one.
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I'm not going to spend long on this thread as, mostly, people have such entrenched views anything I said would be shouting in the wind.

However, I think your comments touches on a key issue (of many) relating to the vote -the simplisitic low threshold of 50% for a "once in a lifetime" vote (which could potentially cause a flipping if there was a second vote). Given the serious upheaval likely as a result of the vote, the fact that the demographics change over time* and the fact that such a low threshold could (and has) resulted in a split, embittered, populace the threshold really should have been higher (I was told The Netherlands has a 75% threshold for such major constitutional changes). Bottom line is if the threshold was, say, two-thirds us remainers really would have had to reasonably shut up and take the medicine.

*i.e. in ten years time it's possible the population would have a completely different opinion due to old leavers being replaced by young remainers
 
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