@TeaLovingDave this is an incredibly interesting discussion but I think it’s deserving of its own thread. Is that something you could sort?
Bronx Zoo Bronx Zoo News 2019
- Thread starter ThylacineAlive
- Start date
To touch on this: I remember Arizona Docent mentioning that one of the California facilities imported - I think - Persian leopards and was all set to lend them out for breeding, but nobody wanted to work with them. I don't remember the particulars, but it seems like a bit of vertical integration might be in order. Rather than farm out surplus animals to other zoos, perhaps send them out to, say, a sanctuary run by the zoo and allow smaller zoos to free up space and capitol for those other species.
I'm heavily biased towards San Diego, but your point is taken. I wouldn't mind some smaller species, but would prefer San Diego to maintain their focus. They're in the relatively unique position of having the space and resources to do so. Though, they could probably do a fair amount more if they chose to develop, say, another 100 acres of the 15-billion acres they've "set aside" at the Wild Animal Park.
That said, could the WCS and San Diego pool resources and offer financing* to mid-tier and smaller zoos for enclosure development & construction as well as food costs in order to increase those holders/breeders? It's not like either institution is hurting for money.
* - This would be either an interest free loan or a gift of sorts.
I think this was missed but a Gaur calf was born earlier in the year. This brings the zoo's current population to 8.10.1
~Thylo
~Thylo
That’s an impressive number, and to think I didn’t see a single one during my Asian monorail ride.
Wait, is that actual news on this thread? Thank the maker!
AmbikaFan
Well-Known Member
Well, yes, lol, if you're riding the monorail to see gaur!
Not unsurprising given their huge enclosure and the varied terrain in it. I've found the best time to actually see most of the animals is right when the ride opens.
Well get ready for a whole splash of zoo news because I visited today!
-The zoo has added additional recorded information tracks to the monorail, including conservationists talking about tigers and Sumatran Rhinos.
-There is a Snow Leopard cub in the second/middle enclosure.
-The zoo has 1.0 Green-Backed Twinspot. The lone male is very shy and hardly ever ventures out of his nest. I suspect that if you're like me and haven't seen the species yet you're very unlikely to do so..
-A keeper mentioned something about a capuchin baby on-exhibit but I couldn't see any young with the female in question.
-It appears the zoo's Hoffmann's Two-Toed Sloth is now on-exhibit in the Children's Zoo
-Five bee-eaters have been born this year between the two species, and one late White-Fronted is still expected to hatch. The keeper doing the feeding talk mentioned how the White-Fronted prefer to use the artificial nesting holes along the fake mudbank in the enclosure, while the White-Throated prefer to dig their own burrows in the sand mound on the floor. He also talked about a White-Throated on-exhibit named "Scooter" who randomly decided he was ready to leave his nest at only five days old, and continues to leave the burrow everytime he was put back, so eventually the staff handreared him.
-Three of the Trumpeter Swan chicks all have new homes: one has been sent to Prospect Park to be paired with their lone bird, and the other two are due to be released into the wild in Iowa.
-The zoo hatched two Maleo chicks this year.
-There appear to have been 2 Geladas, 1 Mandrill, and 1-2 Silvered Leaf Monkeys born this year.
-The Australian finch enclosure in WoB has been covered over and is being renovated.
-The main entrance ticket booths are currently being repainted.
-The zoo's Halloween decorations are being put up. Some kind of children's display is going where the 4-D theater was but all that's currently up is some interactive game about Gallimimus and Ostrich skeletons. The "Extinct Animals Graveyard" is also currently up, not featuring Pinta Island Giant Tortoise and West African Black Rhinoceros among the other residents.
-I saw a keeper exit the bear/Dhole indoor holding and then start watching the door into the animal holding from the viewing area for a while. I was hoping they were testing exhibiting the new animals but the door was closed and after a few minutes she just wandered off. I'm not really sure what it was she was doing tbh.
~Thylo
AmbikaFan
Well-Known Member
Have they been successful enough with the beehive project to be feeding bees to the beeeaters instead of crickets? I saw them use bees once in an experiment, and you could see that catching and disabling the stinger were innate behaviors, after eating crickets for so long. They said they were trying to produce enough bees to survive the winter, so I got the impression they were using bees only sporadically.
That is a fair point. Generally I found the standard of exhibits on the Asian monorail to be of generally good quality, and I’m not sure many hoofstock (or perhaps even tigers) can say they live in better enclosures in the US.
Obviously it wasn’t perfect, and I would still prefer a walk through but I did enjoy my ride on the monorail, perhaps because we broke down and got to see a particularly active tiger go about his day.
Personally I think you'd be hard pressed to find better enclosures for most of those species just about anywhere. Not all are great, but the tiger, wild horse, rhino, Gaur, Markhor, and all of the deer have absolutely superb habitats.
I, too, would prefer an Asia trail over the monorail personally, although I understand why they do it this way.
They were feeding them crickets yesterday, but they did say they have several beehives on the roof of the building so they are still trying to use bees.
~Thylo
I agree, reading back my original posts I think I’ve undersold it somewhat.
Why do they do it that way?
Because of multiple factors, including the following:
A) It'd be exhaustive to walk yet another trail in an already massive zoo, one that, while it features a couple key animals (e.g. tiger, elephant, rhino, red panda) as landmarks, the rest are rare hoofstock that just don't draw in the general public. (Unless Disney made a movie popularizing those species. Funny enough, they opened a new macaque enclosure at the same time that the Jungle Book 2017 remake came around).
B) The reason the paddocks are so massive are to encourage breeding of the rare Asian specimens in their collection as well as provide as close a context as possible to animals living as they would in the wild.
C) For breeding purposes and little disturbance of the animals, the zoo chose a monorail, a relatively silent vehicle aside from the narration and the inevitable screaming kids. They also did this using a one-sided design to conceal the highway situated near the zoo.
So... yeah.
AmbikaFan
Well-Known Member
This design allows for massive outdoor habitats for the hoofstock that would be just too far to walk, like in a safari park that has a bus or some means of conveyance.
While I agree that the outdoor habitats are superlative, we really don't know what their indoor quarters are like. Nothing I've seen on The Zoo seems really awful, but I've tried several times to look at everything behind the monorail cars. Every animal on the Asia side comes in at night into a cluster of connected barns or sheds that are carefully hidden from this kind of scrutiny even though they are within a whisper behind the elephant exhibit. You can see these on Google Earth. With the huge herds they have indeed bred of some pretty massive animals, not to mention elephants, rhinos, etc, I often worry that this building must be bursting at the seams and must look like the proverbial "clown car" when everyone is let out in the morning. 40-year-old barns that are out of the public eye and probably contain more animals than originally intended would probably not meet the standards we expect, I fear.
While I agree that the outdoor habitats are superlative, we really don't know what their indoor quarters are like. Nothing I've seen on The Zoo seems really awful, but I've tried several times to look at everything behind the monorail cars. Every animal on the Asia side comes in at night into a cluster of connected barns or sheds that are carefully hidden from this kind of scrutiny even though they are within a whisper behind the elephant exhibit. You can see these on Google Earth. With the huge herds they have indeed bred of some pretty massive animals, not to mention elephants, rhinos, etc, I often worry that this building must be bursting at the seams and must look like the proverbial "clown car" when everyone is let out in the morning. 40-year-old barns that are out of the public eye and probably contain more animals than originally intended would probably not meet the standards we expect, I fear.
AmbikaFan
Well-Known Member
I've only been a regular at the zoo for just under 20 years. I'm curious how they exhibited the elephants in Asia back when there were at least 4-5 females plus Groucho. Did they have multiple yards for them, or did all those those elephants always rotate on and off the one exhibit with the pool? Also, was the pool always there or added when activists began clamoring?
bigfoot410
Well-Known Member
When I was a younger there used to be 4 elephants at WIld Asia exhibited at once. That stopped sometime in the early 1990's (maybe close to when Zoo Center reopened). There was always just the one elephant exhibit so it was more crowded back then. The pool has been there at least since the late 1980's. I was at the zoo today and WIld Asia (as popular as it is) just seemed so empty in many of the exhibits.
It appears the zoo may no longer keep Formosan sika deer or Chinese tufted deer (not mentioned by monorail guide and tufted deer exhibit was entirely empty). I think the herds of animals kept ebbs and flows and at opening in 1977 there were just as many animals as they have now so I think the space in the barns is likely adequate. Remember they had to hold several elephants, the entire zoo tiger population and all the large herds.
bigfoot410
Well-Known Member
I see this thread exploded over the past week and I have to really agree with both sides, but having been to the zoo today many sections just appeared "tired and worn". Observations from my visit:
1) As thylacinealive mentioned, there is a snow leopard baby in the 2nd exhibit.
2) Still no dholes and will wait to judge adequateness of exhibit once they are on.
3) Only 1 African lion on display (I didn't hear one roaring from the off-exhibit area either)
4) Wild Asia- Formosan sika deer and Chinese Tufted deer are no longer mentioned and the tufted deer enclosure was completely empty.
5) Brown antlered deer were not on exhibit either, but were mentioned by the guide.
6) Jungle World- mangrove snake still missing (and their former exhibit is empty). Only 2 Javan langurs left (exhibit feels so empty now!). Several exhibits in unseen multitude were unsigned and a few were empty. However the final Jungle Room was very active, lots of birds and so happy the gharials are settled in, they make a great ending exhibit animal.
7) Does the zoo only have one aardvark now?
8) Congo- Colobus and mandrill troops have increased in size. Gorillas; only the bachelors were outside today (and it was a warm day!) which was disappointing. Pygmy marmosets were actually on display at least, and they also had an increase in troop size (saw at least 5 of them).
9) Mouse House- so many of the rodents are in multiple exhibits so less on exhibit. I have never seen so many mole rats out before (at least a dozen) and there is a pair of Northern tree shrew on exhibit. The black and rufous elephant shrews were also moved and a too large red rumped agouti is in their former exhibit. No galagos or spotted skunk but finally saw an active pair of screaming armadillos. Nocturnal exhibit had three exhibits of cactus mice and other species in two exhibits (both jerboa species were active!).
10) Reptile House: The first two exhibits (not the hellbenders) were empty and unsigned. The entire wall from the Egyptian tortoise to the gila monsters were also unsigned (I really hope they are working on new sinage because it is awful to go past 15+ exhibits and have no idea what you are looking for). For new species: the poison dart frog exhibit is almost overcrowded (a lot less golden frogs now too) and neither Madagascan species showed itself in the new exhibit next door. I saw a pair of thorny devils and the Ethiopian mountain viper. The final South American exhibit is under renovation again (it was just renovated).
11) Geladas, as mentioned before had two new babies. Only saw one male out on exhibit with at least 6-7 other baboons (females and young).
12) There are a pair of red footed tortoise in the Butterfly Garden.
13) Children's Zoo: In a stream exhibit right before the anteater there was a lone grey goose (not a domestic species). It looked almost like a Cape Barren Goose, but could not be so sure, and my iPhone could not get a good picture, so maybe a new species. Squirrel monkeys seemed to have a smaller troop this year (only 3 individuals) and the maras look so small (I guess they are young ones).
14) Madagascar: Only main notation was one of the lizard species was out in the Spiny Desert (hopefully not as an escapee).
15) Eagle Owls are no longer on exhibit at Birds Of Prey (Snowy owls had two exhibits and the King Vultures were in their former exhibit).
16) Aquatic Bird Building: Seems like everything moved around again! Kiwi was on show, but only saw one blue penguin hiding in the burrow (but saw several terns). There was an unsigned hornbill species next to the kookaburras and I think the Peruvian pelicans are only kept indoors now as they are no longer signed in the Seabird Colony (the ruddy geese and black faced ibis were also removed).
17) World of Birds: Both the African and South American Jungle have had foliage removed (they have never looked that open before). It did make bird viewing easier as you can easily see to the floor and further out into the exhibit. 2 exhibits (the finches and the old kea exhibit) were still closed. Did the curassows leave the collection (unsigned in both locations they used to be displayed)? Eurasian goldfinch and song thrush are now on exhibit in the European forest.
Overall it was a good day out to the zoo, but even the companions I was with (who are not zoo enthusiasts) had the same feeling that the zoo was a "little tired". There are still some great exhibits, but my one friend put it that the "nostalgia is real" since a lot of the zoo is exactly the same when she was a kid (and yes, there have been new opening and renovations since then) and this is the first time she could remember nothing major on the horizon.
I remember as a kid being so excited for Congo Forest to open (which was announced almost a decade before it actually opened). That excitement for what's next was one of the highlights of going to the zoo in the late 1980's-early 2000's that has not been recaptured yet. As the Bronx Zoo is my hometown zoo I really hope with the increase in media visibility that is starts to recapture that magic because what the WCS does for worldwide conservation is incredible and vital. The Zoo (and all the WCS parks) should continue to be a showcase to that conservation work as well as for the Zoo hopefully obtain funding to build "big" again to remain a top zoo. The collection and history are incredible and I hope to one day soon be talking about another innovative Bronx Zoo exhibit (like Sharks at the NYA).
1) As thylacinealive mentioned, there is a snow leopard baby in the 2nd exhibit.
2) Still no dholes and will wait to judge adequateness of exhibit once they are on.
3) Only 1 African lion on display (I didn't hear one roaring from the off-exhibit area either)
4) Wild Asia- Formosan sika deer and Chinese Tufted deer are no longer mentioned and the tufted deer enclosure was completely empty.
5) Brown antlered deer were not on exhibit either, but were mentioned by the guide.
6) Jungle World- mangrove snake still missing (and their former exhibit is empty). Only 2 Javan langurs left (exhibit feels so empty now!). Several exhibits in unseen multitude were unsigned and a few were empty. However the final Jungle Room was very active, lots of birds and so happy the gharials are settled in, they make a great ending exhibit animal.
7) Does the zoo only have one aardvark now?
8) Congo- Colobus and mandrill troops have increased in size. Gorillas; only the bachelors were outside today (and it was a warm day!) which was disappointing. Pygmy marmosets were actually on display at least, and they also had an increase in troop size (saw at least 5 of them).
9) Mouse House- so many of the rodents are in multiple exhibits so less on exhibit. I have never seen so many mole rats out before (at least a dozen) and there is a pair of Northern tree shrew on exhibit. The black and rufous elephant shrews were also moved and a too large red rumped agouti is in their former exhibit. No galagos or spotted skunk but finally saw an active pair of screaming armadillos. Nocturnal exhibit had three exhibits of cactus mice and other species in two exhibits (both jerboa species were active!).
10) Reptile House: The first two exhibits (not the hellbenders) were empty and unsigned. The entire wall from the Egyptian tortoise to the gila monsters were also unsigned (I really hope they are working on new sinage because it is awful to go past 15+ exhibits and have no idea what you are looking for). For new species: the poison dart frog exhibit is almost overcrowded (a lot less golden frogs now too) and neither Madagascan species showed itself in the new exhibit next door. I saw a pair of thorny devils and the Ethiopian mountain viper. The final South American exhibit is under renovation again (it was just renovated).
11) Geladas, as mentioned before had two new babies. Only saw one male out on exhibit with at least 6-7 other baboons (females and young).
12) There are a pair of red footed tortoise in the Butterfly Garden.
13) Children's Zoo: In a stream exhibit right before the anteater there was a lone grey goose (not a domestic species). It looked almost like a Cape Barren Goose, but could not be so sure, and my iPhone could not get a good picture, so maybe a new species. Squirrel monkeys seemed to have a smaller troop this year (only 3 individuals) and the maras look so small (I guess they are young ones).
14) Madagascar: Only main notation was one of the lizard species was out in the Spiny Desert (hopefully not as an escapee).
15) Eagle Owls are no longer on exhibit at Birds Of Prey (Snowy owls had two exhibits and the King Vultures were in their former exhibit).
16) Aquatic Bird Building: Seems like everything moved around again! Kiwi was on show, but only saw one blue penguin hiding in the burrow (but saw several terns). There was an unsigned hornbill species next to the kookaburras and I think the Peruvian pelicans are only kept indoors now as they are no longer signed in the Seabird Colony (the ruddy geese and black faced ibis were also removed).
17) World of Birds: Both the African and South American Jungle have had foliage removed (they have never looked that open before). It did make bird viewing easier as you can easily see to the floor and further out into the exhibit. 2 exhibits (the finches and the old kea exhibit) were still closed. Did the curassows leave the collection (unsigned in both locations they used to be displayed)? Eurasian goldfinch and song thrush are now on exhibit in the European forest.
Overall it was a good day out to the zoo, but even the companions I was with (who are not zoo enthusiasts) had the same feeling that the zoo was a "little tired". There are still some great exhibits, but my one friend put it that the "nostalgia is real" since a lot of the zoo is exactly the same when she was a kid (and yes, there have been new opening and renovations since then) and this is the first time she could remember nothing major on the horizon.
I remember as a kid being so excited for Congo Forest to open (which was announced almost a decade before it actually opened). That excitement for what's next was one of the highlights of going to the zoo in the late 1980's-early 2000's that has not been recaptured yet. As the Bronx Zoo is my hometown zoo I really hope with the increase in media visibility that is starts to recapture that magic because what the WCS does for worldwide conservation is incredible and vital. The Zoo (and all the WCS parks) should continue to be a showcase to that conservation work as well as for the Zoo hopefully obtain funding to build "big" again to remain a top zoo. The collection and history are incredible and I hope to one day soon be talking about another innovative Bronx Zoo exhibit (like Sharks at the NYA).
-There were two male Lions on-exhibit on Friday.
-Both the sika and Tufted Deer were mentioned on Friday and I saw one individual of each species. There zoo has roughly five Tufted Deer on-exhibit but they are very hit or miss given how seclusive they can be.
-Which enclosure in JW were unsigned? I only remember the newish mangrove tank and the now-empty Mangrove Snake enclosures being unsigned.
-I saw two bushbabies and one spotted skunk on Friday.
-The entire wall of enclosures from Egyptian Tortoise to Gila Monster were all signed on Friday :/ They recently updated the signage, too, for several new species so I don't know why they'd suddenly be gone now.
-The goose is a Cape Barren Goose.
-The hornbills are the zoo's Sanford's Dwarf Hornbill pair, which were also signed on Friday...
-I'm not sure about the curassows. I didn't see any helmeted in the Pheasant Aviary and while Blue-Billed were signed in the main SA walkthrough, I didn't actually see any sign of them.
~Thylo
Thorny devils? Assuming this is a Phrynosoma and not actual Moloch horridus?