ZSL Whipsnade Zoo brown bears
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johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't London send the remaining Bighorn sheep to Whipsnade, before they then died out around 2000? Where were they kept at Whipsnade?
Bison - I think American bison tell an amazing conservation story, I think it is also fascinating that they may be supported genetically by some domestic genes, I wish more zoos would tell the story of the American bison. In terms of mixed exhibits including bison, I have never seen wapiti mixed with bison in captivity, does anyone know of this being done successfully.
Bears - I would like to see Kamchatka brown or Kodiak bears at Whipsnade, or the brown bear exhibit extended for polar bears. But what I'd really like to see is a breeding programme for Sri Lankan sloth bears.....I can only assume that the existing three are not pure Sri Lankans, or that no US zoo with pure animals of the same subspecies is willing to work with ZSL on this, how else to explain a critically endangered bear subspecies being kept in a long-term, non-breeding situation at ZSL Whipsnade?
As for London, given how much was made of the unsuitability of the mappins, even when modified, for bear species, I don't expect bears ever to return to this structure, and can think of no other parts of the Regent's park site suitable for a bear exhibit to match the standard of other leading UK zoos. The only species I can imagine them going into would be sun bears, but with no bear species on the 2007 masterplan and other capital projects still being fundraised for, I wouldn't expect to see bears at London zoo for many years, if ever.
Bison - I think American bison tell an amazing conservation story, I think it is also fascinating that they may be supported genetically by some domestic genes, I wish more zoos would tell the story of the American bison. In terms of mixed exhibits including bison, I have never seen wapiti mixed with bison in captivity, does anyone know of this being done successfully.
Bears - I would like to see Kamchatka brown or Kodiak bears at Whipsnade, or the brown bear exhibit extended for polar bears. But what I'd really like to see is a breeding programme for Sri Lankan sloth bears.....I can only assume that the existing three are not pure Sri Lankans, or that no US zoo with pure animals of the same subspecies is willing to work with ZSL on this, how else to explain a critically endangered bear subspecies being kept in a long-term, non-breeding situation at ZSL Whipsnade?
As for London, given how much was made of the unsuitability of the mappins, even when modified, for bear species, I don't expect bears ever to return to this structure, and can think of no other parts of the Regent's park site suitable for a bear exhibit to match the standard of other leading UK zoos. The only species I can imagine them going into would be sun bears, but with no bear species on the 2007 masterplan and other capital projects still being fundraised for, I wouldn't expect to see bears at London zoo for many years, if ever.
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
I had always assumed that 'pure' American bison were either listed as Prairie bison (with wood bison being a separate subspecies), and the rest were 'generics'. Interestingly, Whipsnade lists 1.1 Prairie bison rather than generic American bison, on ISIS, I'm not sure how accurate this is...
Flamingoland stopped Wapiti in the mid to late 90s. I think specialist deer collections are as good a place as any for this species though, although I only know of two herds (Bush Farm and Scottish Deer Centre).
Flamingoland stopped Wapiti in the mid to late 90s. I think specialist deer collections are as good a place as any for this species though, although I only know of two herds (Bush Farm and Scottish Deer Centre).
I've always assumed 'Prairie' Bison is a sort of popular term which refers to Bison as a way of differentiating them from Wood Bison. I've never thought of it as differentiating between those which are pure or generic or contain domestic blood. Rather like the term 'Common' Chimpanzee versus Bonobo. I could be wrong though.
Wapiti- do you know where Bush Farm is?
Prairie Bison and Wood Bison are the common names for the two traditional subspecies of American Bison (B. b. bison and B. b. athabascae respectively, though these are not always considered valid these days).
ISIS is likely to be all over the place depending on if the zoo a) recognises the subspecies and b) can be bothered listing it. Zootierliste pragmatically assumes that any that aren't Wood Bison are Prairie, which I think is probably fair enough. I think it's one of those cases of there have been a few known imports of Wood Bison and you can generally assume that any that aren't descended from those imports are Prairie Bison.
ISIS is likely to be all over the place depending on if the zoo a) recognises the subspecies and b) can be bothered listing it. Zootierliste pragmatically assumes that any that aren't Wood Bison are Prairie, which I think is probably fair enough. I think it's one of those cases of there have been a few known imports of Wood Bison and you can generally assume that any that aren't descended from those imports are Prairie Bison.
ISIS is like the International Yearbook listings, lots of margins for error as they simply publish what information they are given. Some zoos recognise (or bother to list) subspecies, others don't, some may be incorrect (like Port Lympne's 'Branderi' Swamp Deer?) and it all goes on from there.
I agree about Bison, that 'Prairie' is the term normally used for all except Wood Bison.
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
Bush farm is in Wiltshire, I've often wondered if the Cricket St. Thomas wapiti herd, present until the 90s, went there. There is an amazing guidebook cover photo of a wapiti stag at Cricket from the early 80s, I remember them up on the far hill, and for that reason have always associated wapiti deer with Cricket, despite the fact they left before park really came of age.
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Bwassa
Well-Known Member
Brown Bear enclosure
I agree with the above comments that the enclosure should be occupied by bears in years to come. European Brown Bears would appear to be the obvious choice given the European theming of the area.
I do think, however, that Asiatic Black Bears would be an idea for the enclosure. As a species that used to be common in UK zoos, it is a shame that the only individuals now in the UK are the elderly Inca at Dudley, and the individual at Heythrop.
Polar Bears would be my ideal, but that's very unlikely to happen.
I agree with the above comments that the enclosure should be occupied by bears in years to come. European Brown Bears would appear to be the obvious choice given the European theming of the area.
I do think, however, that Asiatic Black Bears would be an idea for the enclosure. As a species that used to be common in UK zoos, it is a shame that the only individuals now in the UK are the elderly Inca at Dudley, and the individual at Heythrop.
Polar Bears would be my ideal, but that's very unlikely to happen.
That would be great in my opinion, not necesarilly in that enclosure but a Highland Wildlife Park style paddock would be fantastic in my view.
Thanks. I remember the Cricket Wapiti too- I think the same paddock was later used by the Axis Deer right up until the Park closed. The Wapiti may well have gone to Wiltshire as its quite close, though the Axis deer travelled as far away as Houghton in Norfolk on the Park's closure.
I think that when I first visited Whipsnade (nearly 40 years ago 
), wapiti were kept with the bison on the escarpment: I'm not sure if that would be thought to be good practice now.
I certainly remember the spectacled bears; they were probably the worst housed species at Whipsnade in a very small cage at the edge of wood near the penguins. The polar bears were not much better housed a little way along the escarpment in a small concrete enclosure with a pool and thick bars like the ones on the brown bear enclosure with those nasty spikes. The were also Kodiak bears still further along, near the old lion enclosure, they had a pit again just bare concrete, with a little pool and a tree trunk - but the Kodiak bears bred successfully, I have some photos of the cubs somewhere.
Whipsnade could certainly keep any of those species again, but they would need much better accommodation. The current enclosure suits the brown bears well because of the scrubby woodland, which I believe has grown there naturally over the years - it would seem wrong to put polar bears there (although I don't think the bears would mind).
Alan
), wapiti were kept with the bison on the escarpment: I'm not sure if that would be thought to be good practice now.I certainly remember the spectacled bears; they were probably the worst housed species at Whipsnade in a very small cage at the edge of wood near the penguins. The polar bears were not much better housed a little way along the escarpment in a small concrete enclosure with a pool and thick bars like the ones on the brown bear enclosure with those nasty spikes. The were also Kodiak bears still further along, near the old lion enclosure, they had a pit again just bare concrete, with a little pool and a tree trunk - but the Kodiak bears bred successfully, I have some photos of the cubs somewhere.
Whipsnade could certainly keep any of those species again, but they would need much better accommodation. The current enclosure suits the brown bears well because of the scrubby woodland, which I believe has grown there naturally over the years - it would seem wrong to put polar bears there (although I don't think the bears would mind).
Alan
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that Whipsnade's climate would prove that much of a challenge to Spectacled Bears - Jaguars bred successfully nearby to the bear enclosure for a good many years, to say nothing of Cheetahs!.
I do also think that if zoos are going to be taken seriously as conservation organisations that certain taxa - especially those that take up money and/or space - really ought to be represented by those in need of captive breeding. Until and unless somebody makes the (IMO, overdue) effort to re-evaluate Brown bear subspecies and a form is identified that is a realistic subject of a captive breeding programme then personally I feel a change of species would be appropriate.
I also feel that the old Downs paddock could be transformed into a first-rate Polar Bear enclosure, but that's another story!
I do also think that if zoos are going to be taken seriously as conservation organisations that certain taxa - especially those that take up money and/or space - really ought to be represented by those in need of captive breeding. Until and unless somebody makes the (IMO, overdue) effort to re-evaluate Brown bear subspecies and a form is identified that is a realistic subject of a captive breeding programme then personally I feel a change of species would be appropriate.
I also feel that the old Downs paddock could be transformed into a first-rate Polar Bear enclosure, but that's another story!
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I remember the Wapiti being in the enclosure next to where the Reindeer are now(the paddock has gone) but not in with the Bison.
I think 'could' is the salient word here- I doubt they ever will though?
Breeding successes apart, I always felt rather sorry for animals from tropical climates having to endure Whpsnae's 'subarctic'
climate on the colder/windy Downs side of the Zoo. But its ideal for colderweather species- Penguins, Bison, Reindeer, Polar Bears, Brown Bear etc and they do have seemed in recent years to have the most suitable range of species on that side.
johnstoni.
Well-Known Member
This is exactly my point about the sloth bears. Are Whipsnade sitting on a non-breeding group of a critically-endangered subspecies or not? I would be very interested to know. statements have been made on here that male has been prevented from breeding surgically (I know not which procedure), I would be interested to know if that is heresay or true. Either way, what is the explanation/justification for holding non-breeding Sri Lankan sloth bears? It has to be either that the remaining institutions holding Sri Lankans worldwide are not cooperating, or there has been some discovery, post London zoo breedings (which resulted in Ursula and Colombo) that their bears are not pure subspecfic animals. If it is the former, Whipsnade would certainly have made a grave error if indeed they have prevented Colombo from breeding as they would have no way of exchanging animals to create a viable pair. And, given the power of the AZA over its membership, I very much doubt a Sri Lankan sloth bear of breeding age will be donated or loaned to a European zoo without some kind of reciprocal action.
Much of this is speculative, of course, but it is baffling as to why there is no movement on these animals to continue the previous breeding success.
BongoHardwood
Well-Known Member
Sorry to bump an old thread but it's an interesting topic! When it was first asked why the Sloth Bears at Whipsnade weren't breeding I was going to say because they're all related, however it seems to be the question is why haven't they been exchanged for viable partners, which I don't know. Lanka has has a hard life and is living out her retirement in nice spacious Whipsnade so that's understandable. As for Colombo and Ursula I don't know why they haven't done anything about breeding them... All three are listed as Sri Lankan subspecies on ISIS and one would assume if they have stated that then it's correct..
With regards to the Brown Bear enclosure, I think the likelihood is that it will remain as that, especially as has been said with the Wild Wild Whipsnade re-branding, although I would love to see Giant Pandas or Polar Bears at Whipsnade! I'm sure many of you will have been down the steps near the corner car park just past the smaller café overlooking the downs where the old polar bear enclosure was where there is an information sign which talks about the history of the old polar bear exhibit and the den's current use as a bat roost.
With regards to the Brown Bear enclosure, I think the likelihood is that it will remain as that, especially as has been said with the Wild Wild Whipsnade re-branding, although I would love to see Giant Pandas or Polar Bears at Whipsnade! I'm sure many of you will have been down the steps near the corner car park just past the smaller café overlooking the downs where the old polar bear enclosure was where there is an information sign which talks about the history of the old polar bear exhibit and the den's current use as a bat roost.
This is correct (hence the Sri Lankan-related names - Ceylon, Lanka, Colombo...). It's a large part of the problem - most of the Sloth Bears in Europe are Indian.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Its also a problem that the male Sri lankan Sloth bear has had the snip so cannot be used for breeding now!