lechweoryx
Well-Known Member
I always thought that they keep a bachelor herd of 7 bucks but on their website on the July babies page it says they have had 3 brow-antlered deer born. When did the females arrive and did they come form chester?
Knowsley Safari Park Burmese brow-antlered deer babies??????
- Thread starter lechweoryx
- Start date
I thought they previously had four males?
ISIS now lists them with 6.0. So maybe 3 more males arrived recently from Chester and are listed (wrongly)in the July arrivals as births?
Or alternatively ISIS is way out of date and they really are breeding them now, it would be good if they were.. Can anyone shed more light?
ISIS now lists them with 6.0. So maybe 3 more males arrived recently from Chester and are listed (wrongly)in the July arrivals as births?
Or alternatively ISIS is way out of date and they really are breeding them now, it would be good if they were.. Can anyone shed more light?
Pootle
Well-Known Member
Hi,
Pretty sure they are all male. Visited this weekend and although they where quite a fair way away, I couldnt see anything other than adult looking ones. there are a few young Nilgai about now and I spotted at least 2 fairly young Blackbucks. They (Knowsley) 'thinned out' some of their population of deer/antelope earlier in the year, so numbers are a little lower. Numbers of Lechwe are still booming, including an albino specimen.
The two rhino's Winnie and Piglet are about to give birth any day now, so any news on this please post it so I get the info asap, should I hear anything I too will post.
P.
Pretty sure they are all male. Visited this weekend and although they where quite a fair way away, I couldnt see anything other than adult looking ones. there are a few young Nilgai about now and I spotted at least 2 fairly young Blackbucks. They (Knowsley) 'thinned out' some of their population of deer/antelope earlier in the year, so numbers are a little lower. Numbers of Lechwe are still booming, including an albino specimen.
The two rhino's Winnie and Piglet are about to give birth any day now, so any news on this please post it so I get the info asap, should I hear anything I too will post.
P.
Paulkarli08
Well-Known Member
Brown antlered deer are all male.
Barasingha at Knowsley S.P.
ISIS now lists Knowsley as having 2.2 (+1?) Barasingha/ Swamp Deer.
Does anyone know whether they came from West Midlands, Port Lympne, or Whipsnade (or Woburn-unlikely) ?
I believe historically there are two genetic sources of Swamp Deer in the UK;
1. Woburn/Whipsnade.
2. E.Berlin/Port Lympne/West Midlands.
I am unclear as to whether these two lines have ever been crossed since they were first imported. I believe the Woburn/Whipsnade groups have certainly been 'closed' herds for many years and must be extremely inbred by now- it is a pity the two strains can't be amalgamated somewhere to provide some valuable outcrossing. (Not enough of this happens in captive ungulate herds, particularly the less high profile species, IMO)
ISIS now lists Knowsley as having 2.2 (+1?) Barasingha/ Swamp Deer.
Does anyone know whether they came from West Midlands, Port Lympne, or Whipsnade (or Woburn-unlikely) ?
I believe historically there are two genetic sources of Swamp Deer in the UK;
1. Woburn/Whipsnade.
2. E.Berlin/Port Lympne/West Midlands.
I am unclear as to whether these two lines have ever been crossed since they were first imported. I believe the Woburn/Whipsnade groups have certainly been 'closed' herds for many years and must be extremely inbred by now- it is a pity the two strains can't be amalgamated somewhere to provide some valuable outcrossing. (Not enough of this happens in captive ungulate herds, particularly the less high profile species, IMO)
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lechweoryx
Well-Known Member
I think they came form whipsnade.
@Pertinax, I wholly agree. It is rather sad that Rucervus duvauceli ssp. are slowly being "lost from the heart and minds" of the zoo community. Incidentally, do we know whether the R. duvauceli are pure-bred ssp.? Is it nominate race we are dealing with in European zoos?
The safari open range situation would lend itself to managing larger herds of deer and antelope without much hassle. Perhaps also a good reason to move away from semi-domesticated Dama dama (shame we never see the rare if perhaps endangered pure-bred eastern Mediterranean Dama dama in Turkey). Perhaps Knowsley is seeing the light fantastic here ????
The safari open range situation would lend itself to managing larger herds of deer and antelope without much hassle. Perhaps also a good reason to move away from semi-domesticated Dama dama (shame we never see the rare if perhaps endangered pure-bred eastern Mediterranean Dama dama in Turkey). Perhaps Knowsley is seeing the light fantastic here ????
Barasingha in UK
AFAIK most(if not all?) Barasingha in Europe are the nominate race c.d. duvauceli. However, a couple of zoos (Obterre in France and Port Lympne),are listed as having c.d. branderi- the Central Indian race -'hard ground' Barasingha.
However, I am not sure of the accuracy of those listings of 'branderi'- Port Lympne's original stock came, I believe, from E.Berlin and were the 'ordinary' Northern race, so have they switched to the more endangered race or is it a listing error?(I cannot find out- no response from them to my emails about this).
For many years the only Swamp Deer(northern race) in the UK were at Woburn Deer Park and another herd at Whipsnade,(source unknown but very likely Woburn). In the 1960's Woburn's herd came close to dying out, probably due to a combination of high calf mortality and road casualties. The remainder were removed from the main park to a small seperate corner of the estate, here they have since multiplied much more successfully again (about 60+ deer now) and are still kept in this seperate location.
Port Lympne imported seperately from East Berlin(?) circa 1970's and at one time had a very large herd. Some of these were transferred to West Midlands Safari Park who also hold a sizeable group now. The whereabouts of the rest is a rather a mystery.
Marwell obtained a small group(probably)from Whipsnade in circa 1970's and bred a few but I don't know what happened to them when they were phased out. (Possibly they were killed off.)
The only other UK holder is Knowsley who have recently aquired 2.2. (from Whipsnade?)
As I said above, unless someone knows differently I don't think the two genetic lines have been amalgamated anywhere. Whipsnade's exhibit definite signs of inbreeding- wall eyes and odd white markings, and the Woburn stags as far back as I can remember have shown poor/small antler development, compared to the wild form.
AFAIK most(if not all?) Barasingha in Europe are the nominate race c.d. duvauceli. However, a couple of zoos (Obterre in France and Port Lympne),are listed as having c.d. branderi- the Central Indian race -'hard ground' Barasingha.
However, I am not sure of the accuracy of those listings of 'branderi'- Port Lympne's original stock came, I believe, from E.Berlin and were the 'ordinary' Northern race, so have they switched to the more endangered race or is it a listing error?(I cannot find out- no response from them to my emails about this).
For many years the only Swamp Deer(northern race) in the UK were at Woburn Deer Park and another herd at Whipsnade,(source unknown but very likely Woburn). In the 1960's Woburn's herd came close to dying out, probably due to a combination of high calf mortality and road casualties. The remainder were removed from the main park to a small seperate corner of the estate, here they have since multiplied much more successfully again (about 60+ deer now) and are still kept in this seperate location.
Port Lympne imported seperately from East Berlin(?) circa 1970's and at one time had a very large herd. Some of these were transferred to West Midlands Safari Park who also hold a sizeable group now. The whereabouts of the rest is a rather a mystery.
Marwell obtained a small group(probably)from Whipsnade in circa 1970's and bred a few but I don't know what happened to them when they were phased out. (Possibly they were killed off.)
The only other UK holder is Knowsley who have recently aquired 2.2. (from Whipsnade?)
As I said above, unless someone knows differently I don't think the two genetic lines have been amalgamated anywhere. Whipsnade's exhibit definite signs of inbreeding- wall eyes and odd white markings, and the Woburn stags as far back as I can remember have shown poor/small antler development, compared to the wild form.
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