Capron Park Zoo Capron Park Zoo Review

Also agreed in terms of spacing and climate, though, and always have to say, successful elephants programs are quite possible in the north despite the climate.

But also all the elephant programs in New England are just holders any how. I'm still not convinced RWP will be long term and hope Buttonwood sticks with GoH as replacements for the old ladies. As you well know there's not much diversity in that neck of the U.S.
Yeah, I'm definitely aware cold climates can work with very successful elephant programs (e.g. Omaha, Cleveland, Rosamond Gifford). I agree with GOHRs for Buttonwood, and think that'd be a great use of that space. Although who knows, they could surprise us with something else now that the director has changed. As for RWPZ, I'm very interested to see what their future with elephants entails. Really I think there are two options, neither of which is ideal:

1. Expand the elephant exhibit to take up all of what's now Africa, which would take out a number of other exhibits in the process (sort of like what Smithsonian did with the Elephant Trails).

2. Phase out elephants in favor of something else entirely, either an expanded giraffe exhibit/mixed species savanna (which, while not unique nationwide, there isn't really a good mixed Savanna exhibit within the New England region), or a complete redevelopment of that area, perhaps for something completely new (i.e. not a renovation of the exhibit, but demolishing it for a new exhibit, or multiple exhibits/a new building, etc.). I just hope that if this route is taken, the zoo doesn't say "let's put some rhinos in there and call it a day". Its such a large, nice area that I'm not sure rhinos could do justice to, unless the zoo became a reliable breeder.

While I generally feel the first would be a better option, my one concern (even if the zoo was able to afford said changes) would be going through the renovations and have there be no elephants available to start a herd, certainly a possibility with the way the elephant SSPs have been going.
 
Lol no worries, I knew your aware. Having worked with elephants for so long its habit.

Regarding RWP, unless they go full in (which as you said is no guarantee even if they had the finances due to availability), I have been highly in favor of seeing E. Black at the zoo. And if Buttonwood stays true, we would have a nice pachyderm smattering throughout S. New England. I will always support elephants in the region, but given the "climate" of the area I'll stay realistic.

It would also be nice to see one of the zoos get into a true tiger SSP (Beardsley excluded obviously). Capron (phase out the lions) and especially FPZ (given Luther and Anala passing) would be nice to see. I know RWP plans on it and I believe Buttonwood as well
 
It would also be nice to see one of the zoos get into a true tiger SSP (Beardsley excluded obviously). Capron (phase out the lions) and especially FPZ (given Luther and Anala passing) would be nice to see. I know RWP plans on it and I believe Buttonwood as well
What's preventing Capron from putting tigers (or any cat other than lions) in that exhibit is the height of the dry moat. Since tigers are much better jumpers than lions, it wouldn't be a secure exhibit. Furthermore, New England winters (i.e. snow) would make it virtually impossible to net in the exhibit to prevent escape. I agree 100% I'd like to see subspecific tigers in the region though. Buttonwood has floated it (although their masterplan was under the former director, it included four big cat species!), Roger Williams masterplan calls for Amur Tigers where the camels currently are (again under a former director though), and for years Franklin Park Zoo had floated a true Asian area, which if it was up to me I'd hope tigers and sloth bears make the cut. It's really kind of surprising no New England zoos have chosen to exhibit subspecific Tigers. Especially since amurs are not only popular but also cold tolerant, it'd be a no-brainer species for zoos in the region to invest in.

For the RWPZ elephant exhibit, my top choice for using that space if elephants leave would be a mixed-savanna including both the giraffe and elephant exhibits. Not only would this allow a bigger and better home for the zoo's giraffes, it would also provide a unique mixed exhibit for the zoo by moving in the zebras and Wildebeest, bringing back Ostrich, and possibly one or two other antelope species (ideally a spiral-horned antelope and either Impala or springbok). That would also open up the current Zebra exhibit for being repurposed for any number of new projects.
 
@Neil chace @PSO I’ve been enjoying reading this discussion about apex predators and pachyderms in New England.

I agree with some of the earlier points and I think that Polar Bears may have a better future in New England than elephants do. I could see either Roger Williams or Stone eventually getting p-bears again if the population improves, as both zoos have expressed interest in Grizzly Bears, and Polar Bears could get subbed in for them if things went the right way (though this is more of a long term possibility, and not something I think will happen in the immediate future).

Elephants I think are much less likely to be kept in New England long-term than polar bears are. Buttonwood obviously announced plans to phase the species out (we will see if that plan sticks, but I haven’t heard anything otherwise). It now remains to be seen whether RWPZ will keep the species too, or if they will invest millions into a mega-complex. Another zoo that has the space for elephants around here is Franklin Park, but they aren’t interested in the species and obviously do not have the necessary funding.

Personally, I think that RWPZ’s decision regarding their elephants carries some weight because of how people may react to a phase-out. RWPZ is still haunted by their never-constructed Polar Bear complex, and I could easily see the decision to phase elephants out haunting them in a similar manner. Maybe if polar bears returned, the public would be more accepting of elephants leaving. Of course, even if RWPZ kept elephants, there would still be other problems to deal with. The expansion may of course necessitate phasing out many other species to make space as you acknowledged, Neil. Then there’s also the consideration that an expanded elephant area could stretch all the way from the current barn to the zoo entrance. This might be problematic because in the winter the massive complex would be empty and, right after entering, guests would have to walk over half the length of the entire zoo before seeing a single animal.

In a situation where elephants were phased out of RWPZ, I do like PSO’s idea of acquiring Eastern Black Rhinos. In my opinion Eastern Black’s would be a more unique choice than Southern White Rhinos or a Savannah. It also seems like there are ample opportunities for strong savannah exhibits at Franklin Park depending on how Serengeti Crossing and Giraffe Savannah continue to develop, so I don’t see this as an exhibit type that will necessarily be rare in the region for the long term. Another pachyderm (besides rhinos and elephants) that I would love to see in New England are Nile Hippos. This wouldn’t be a simple acquisition for RWPZ in lieu of elephants since it would require new holding areas with indoor pools, but I believe the nearest Nile Hippos are in Philadelphia and it would be exciting to see some zoo in the region build a new modern habitat for them.

Shifting gears onto the subject of Tigers, they are a great choice for a popular cold-tolerant species with high conservation value, and I really hope they would be included in FPZ's asian area if / when the complex is eventually built. So many of FPZ's current exhibits focus on tropical African species, and I would see an Asian area as a great opportunity to make a new zone with lots of cold-tolerant animals (cats, bears, hoofstock) to balance out the collection and make winter visits more enjoyable. Though for now, I am expecting FPZ's current tiger area to be used for an African predatory species (possibly a lion expansion).
 
id love for RWPZ to get large primates, like mandrills or gorillas, maybe chimps, but i would love to see orangutans in new england
 
Personally, I think that RWPZ’s decision regarding their elephants carries some weight because of how people may react to a phase-out. RWPZ is still haunted by their never-constructed Polar Bear complex, and I could easily see the decision to phase elephants out haunting them in a similar manner. Maybe if polar bears returned, the public would be more accepting of elephants leaving. Of course, even if RWPZ kept elephants, there would still be other problems to deal with. The expansion may of course necessitate phasing out many other species to make space as you acknowledged, Neil. Then there’s also the consideration that an expanded elephant area could stretch all the way from the current barn to the zoo entrance. This might be problematic because in the winter the massive complex would be empty and, right after entering, guests would have to walk over half the length of the entire zoo before seeing a single animal.

In a situation where elephants were phased out of RWPZ, I do like PSO’s idea of acquiring Eastern Black Rhinos. In my opinion Eastern Black’s would be a more unique choice than Southern White Rhinos or a Savannah. It also seems like there are ample opportunities for strong savannah exhibits at Franklin Park depending on how Serengeti Crossing and Giraffe Savannah continue to develop, so I don’t see this as an exhibit type that will necessarily be rare in the region for the long term. Another pachyderm (besides rhinos and elephants) that I would love to see in New England are Nile Hippos. This wouldn’t be a simple acquisition for RWPZ in lieu of elephants since it would require new holding areas with indoor pools, but I believe the nearest Nile Hippos are in Philadelphia and it would be exciting to see some zoo in the region build a new modern habitat for them.

You make a valid point I haven't thought of before, with an elephant expansion taking up the entire "entrance" portion of zoo, making it a long walk to anything cold tolerant. Looking at the zoo through google maps, I suppose there actually is an alternate, equally possible option for an elephant expansion that hasn't been mentioned on here- overtaking North America with an elephant complex. If the current yard, giraffe yard, and barn are connected via a Denver Zoo style elephant bridge to this area, it would allow a very unique and interesting elephant complex of around 4 acres- including the current red wolf/pronghorn/bison exhibits. Doing so would require some re-routing of pathways, but overall would be another option for elephants that doesn't require it to stretch to the entrance. This option would leave the current zebra and cheetah exhibits still available for other species, either keeping the current line-up or developing this space for something else (there's an acre and a half here, possibly more depending on how much of aoudad becomes ed center/event's pavilion so theoretically enough space for a larger giraffe exhibit than what the zoo currently has.

As for black rhinos, that option doesn't personally excite me, and from what I've seen at other zoos, they don't appear to be a particularly active species, which makes me skeptical of their ability to be a big draw for crowds. I wouldn't be upset, per say, if this is the route the zoo takes, I just think there are better options out there. Furthermore, it's worth considering that depending on how much effort/funding the zoo would like to invest, a replacement for this area may not be a re-purposing of the exhibit, but instead something completely new. If the zoo wanted to, for instance, demolish the elephant exhibit in its entirety, the zoo could build an exhibit similar to the African Journey at Lincoln Park Zoo that includes a number of smaller African species along with a more modern giraffe holding. If the zoo is willing to drop the African theming, a new exhibit could focus on any number of other themes and incorporate any combination of fascinating smaller species. This may truthfully be the ideal option, if the zoo could afford it, as perhaps the best way to compensate for the loss of one large, popular species is with a number of smaller, engaging species- which in turn would lead to visitors spending more time in this area, especially if the exhibitry itself is unique or innovative.
id love for RWPZ to get large primates, like mandrills or gorillas, maybe chimps, but i would love to see orangutans in new england
I definitely agree I'd like to see some more primates at RWPZ. Not necessarily just larger ones, but any primates would be appreciated, as currently it's just the gibbons and four neotropical species. There used to be the Madagascar complex with lemurs- it'd be great to see this space have a permanent exhibit complex again, and some sort of primates (possibly exhibits similar to the new Saint Louis complex) would be a great use of this space. Primates are a group of animals that could be much better represented in New England- specifically, Langurs and Japanese Macaques are two types of primates that I'd love to see make an appearance in a New England zoo, and space-wise would be much more reasonable than orangs as you suggested. As great apes go, another species that'd be a cool choice for a New England Zoo, and would have a slightly smaller space requirement than orangutans would be Bonobos, and that SSP is desperately in need of more holders.

I'm willing to bet we can all agree that North America is the weakest section of RWPZ right now (not bad, just weaker than the other sections, I don't think RWPZ has any bad exhibits at the moment), and if a large primate, or any other "significant" acquisition (grizzly or polar bears, rhinos, more African megafauna, etc.) was to occur at RWPZ, I feel the ideal placement for this expansion would be to completely redevelop this section of the zoo into something completely new. If orangutans, bonobos, or other great apes were to make an appearance, this would be the location for a new complex that sacrifices the least as far as current exhibits go.
 
yes, not to mention they keep swapping the sp in the now black and turkey vulture aviary, which held north american porcupines, iirc the female had a baby, then snowy owls, now these, and hopefully these stick.
 
yes, not to mention they keep swapping the sp in the now black and turkey vulture aviary, which held north american porcupines, iirc the female had a baby, then snowy owls, now these, and hopefully these stick.
I honestly wouldn't mind it if these didn't stick. Unlike the past few inclusions, this one doesn't really excite me. It may just be that I've seen both species not only in other zoos but also in the wild, but they aren't really my cup of tea as far as exhibit animals go. It doesn't help that I tend to prefer more active species, and every time I've been by their exhibit the vultures haven't really been moving much. Furthermore, it's very much a flawed exhibit- as there isn't a lot of room to see into it, and isn't the most aesthetically pleasing. I'm glad that the Creature Connection Corner (or whatever it's called) is providing something new in that space now. While I personally haven't been in there (although have walked by), there always seems to be people in it and it provides something of interest in a underutilized part of the zoo. However, it wouldn't be a big loss if the zoo decided to either remove this area or move it elsewhere in the zoo in order to build a more permanent exhibit- ideally a complete re-theming of the area not a re-utilization of what's already there. At least for now the Snake Den has remained for a while and is a good use for that building, which used to hold day geckos back in the Madagascar days.
 
Roger is nice zoo but need active species to draw crowd. I like to see snow monkey where eagle reside and move red panda to vulture cages.
 
Roger is nice zoo but need active species to draw crowd. I like to see snow monkey where eagle reside and move red panda to vulture cages.
I agree with Japanese Macaques. While the current Eagle exhibit would be a quixotic choice for where to place a Japanese Macaque exhibit, it is a species I'd love to return to New England (at any of the zoos), and in particular RWPZ could benefit from another large primate. However, with all due respect, moving Red pandas into the vulture cage, on the other hand, is a contender for the worst idea I've ever heard on this site. That exhibit is not only too small for red pandas, but is not properly set up for them- most pivotal the lack of an indoor component. Red pandas need a climate controlled space, and the vulture exhibit does not have a climate controlled component, making it an inadequate exhibit for the pandas. Plus the current exhibit allows for breeding (the zoo doesn't have a female at the moment, but hopefully will again in the future) while the vulture cage would not. Ultimately, the best thing for the red pandas is to keep them in the current exhibit- as it is a very good exhibit for the animals, much better than if they were moved. I would like it, however, if a new holding was constructed with visitor windows into it- allowing visitors to see the Red pandas even in the heat of summer when they spend most of the time in their climate controlled holding.
 
I agree with Japanese Macaques. While the current Eagle exhibit would be a quixotic choice for where to place a Japanese Macaque exhibit, it is a species I'd love to return to New England (at any of the zoos), and in particular RWPZ could benefit from another large primate. However, with all due respect, moving Red pandas into the vulture cage, on the other hand, is a contender for the worst idea I've ever heard on this site. That exhibit is not only too small for red pandas, but is not properly set up for them- most pivotal the lack of an indoor component. Red pandas need a climate controlled space, and the vulture exhibit does not have a climate controlled component, making it an inadequate exhibit for the pandas. Plus the current exhibit allows for breeding (the zoo doesn't have a female at the moment, but hopefully will again in the future) while the vulture cage would not. Ultimately, the best thing for the red pandas is to keep them in the current exhibit- as it is a very good exhibit for the animals, much better than if they were moved. I would like it, however, if a new holding was constructed with visitor windows into it- allowing visitors to see the Red pandas even in the heat of summer when they spend most of the time in their climate controlled holding.

Thankyou. I ment the cages in the area. Not the one. They could make building like bearsley. In area there are few cages side side. Don’t see why they could not.
 
Thankyou. I ment the cages in the area. Not the one. They could make building like bearsley. In area there are few cages side side. Don’t see why they could not.
All the other old Madagascar exhibits were demolished to build the Creature Connection Corner.
 
oh they are demolishing the enclosures and building something new?
They were already demolished. The interactive yard for the ambassador armadillos and tortoises is now in that area, and it has been since the summer.
 
so i dont know jack about any zoos other than southwick's since then cause i went last spring
 
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