Sacchi
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No, I meant because Loro Parque got their two white tigers from Chimelong in exchange for sending a panther, california sea lion and a gentoo penguin to Chimelong.
Captive Orca Population
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No, I meant because Loro Parque got their two white tigers from Chimelong in exchange for sending a panther, california sea lion and a gentoo penguin to Chimelong.
It's understandable some insutiton may have helped Chimelong with hand rearing Loki; giving advice ect.
I doubt it would've been Seaworld, so it's possible it was LP or one of the Japanese facilities.
PantheraLeoMelanochaita
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I'd be surprised if Chimelong sent a female to Loro Parque any time soon, considering Chimelong currently has more males than females. With Loki and Yilong being confirmed male and Katniss being confirmed female, that brings the number of males they have to seven (the five wild-caught ones + Loki and Yilong) and the number of females they have to just five (the four wild-caught ones + Katniss). I'm no orca expert, but since orca society is based on matriarchal lineages, wouldn't having considerably more males than females distort their natural social structure? If that's not the case please correct me, I don't want to spread false information but I'd hate to see yet another aquarium end up with a fragmented and unstable orca pod. Also I've never really liked LP anyway; I know I shouldn't judge a facility I've never been to but the way they insisted that poor little Ula was in perfect health and called anyone who said otherwise an animal rights activist trying to slander them right up until her death has always left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't believe that facilities are obligated to make every detail of their animals' health available to the public, but come on; her melon was literally deformed and she had visibly lost weight, yet they used the words "in perfect condition" (in the description of the video). It's pretty hypocritical of LP to accuse animal rights activists of being the only ones spreading propaganda while making videos like this.
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I think it is possibly a combination of more males and inexperienced females that cause unstable pods - as well as the general "behaviour profiles" of individuals of course. I think a good example of this was San Antonio before Takara was transferred, Kyuquot and Tuar ruled the pool so to speak, I believe especially in the two years from Kayla moving to Orlando to Takara arriving. Its a shame places aren't more open about things like this and instead like to insist that "everyone gets along with everyone" a line that seaworld has used on multiple occasions, I do believe it would win animal facilities in general a lot more fans in the long run if they were more open about things but alas.
Loro Parque has been a weird situation since they first received the whales, it was questionable why they would send such closely related animals to breed, and especially Keto who was so much older and also a fairly dominant male, kind of hard to see it as anything other than offloading excess animals.
This is a very accurate statement. In most cases, there can be one female with four or five males, and she’ll still take charge.
In the past SeaWorld (and other marine institutions) have succumbed to the issue of having females who didn’t take on dominant roles; probably due to a lack of experience in a natural pod structure.
San Antonio actually had Takara arrive to fix the issue of having a pod dominated by the males; of which didn’t work well for them as the males pretty much refused to perform majority of the shows at the time. Unna, and Kayla to an extent, were two females who displayed a clear lack of dominance and this is something that can be seen with majority of Seaworld’s female orcas today besides of course the wildborn, Katina, and Kasatka’s two daughters.
Re. Loro Parque, I believe the decision to send the four orcas was merely made to alleviate some of the parks from having too much orcas at the time. Both San Antonio and Orlando had excess orcas, especially if they wanted to continue breeding. SeaWorld had reached the point where they were becoming a victim of their own success.
I’m not sure as to why Keto was chosen exactly. He wasn’t much of a reliable performer at all, so this may have contributed to SeaWorld wanting to offload him to LP; but that’s just my assumption.
PantheraLeoMelanochaita
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Great, thank you!
A lot of interesting clips on there to take a look at.IIRC, it was going to be Tekoa and Tuar that would've gone to LP, but it changed last minute to Tekoa and Keto - can't remember why that happened though or if a reason was ever widely known
That probably would’ve made a lot more sense.
I do recall reading that Keto had begun to have issues within the San Antonio pods in his later years there (I believe it was with Kayla). That could’ve potentially been one of the reasons why he was later chosen to move instead of Tuar.
Yazziel
Well-Known Member
Naya the lone orca at Moskvarium is pregnant and due in December. The father is Nord who passed away in June 2023.
Russian facility confirms captive orca pregnancy | Marine Connection
Russian facility confirms captive orca pregnancy | Marine Connection
PantheraLeoMelanochaita
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Dang, I don't know how I feel about this. I heard on here they were thinking of sending her away to be with a pod, but I never saw a source for that. It's good that she won't be alone once the calf is born, but now I'm worried that they'll be like "She has a companion now! Problem solved" and will reverse course on sending her and her calf to a more appropriate social group. Better than being alone, but a calf and its mother is hardly a proper pod...
Very surprising news. I guess it’s nice to see the that the orcas at the Moskvarium were able to conceive; but then again probably not the best as Naja will be a first time mother by herself, with no pod support.
If a move was on the cards, it will obviously have to be delayed at this point. I’m still hopeful her and this calf will be sent to another facility once the calf reaches an adequate age; but then again, it wouldn’t surprise me to see Moskavarium make the most out of this calf.
Could they potentially transfer her as Japan do/did with theirs via barge? Obviously factoring in the risk of stress to mother and calf but I am pretty sure pregnant whales have been moved before, maybe not as far along as she is currently but it must have happened in the past? Maybe something to look into.
BlobfishBoy
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As far as I know the current plan is to move her and her calf after weaning.
Moana passed away last night at Marineland Antibes at 12 years old. He was the son of Wikie and Ulises. This leaves Antibes with 3 whales, matriarch Wikie, her brother Inouk and Wikie's youngest calf, Keijo.
She’s too late into pregnancy for this to be conducted without any major risk to her and her unborn calf. The best course would be to send her (and her calf) to another facility once the calf is old enough for transfer, which would still be a few years away.
That would be the best decision at this point in time.
Quite unexpected and tragic news; he was a very valuable male (being Ulises’s only surviving a offspring).
Hopefully the rest of the pod is doing well and in good health.
BlobfishBoy
Well-Known Member
I had the same thought. Since Seaworld has ended breeding, this means the end of Ulises's bloodline now that Moana has died, which is pretty sad.
Yes, not sure exactly but I’m fairly sure there’s a ban on cooperating with other facilities re. AI too, so unfortunately Moana was Ulises’s last hope to continue his bloodline.
It’s tragic; as with the Japanese move closely getting closer, Moana would’ve had the chance to breed and represent Ulises over there.
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